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Old 24th March 2023, 08:41   #586
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
Looking at these LEDs from Osram and other manufacturers, I can't help but think about their cooling mechanism and how it'll affect the life of the reflector or halogen projector. I'm sure they produce a lot more heat and a fan is added to maintain the temperature, but how effective it does that job is a question. For e.g. Nexon and other Tata cars have a closed headlight housing to prevent dust and moisture penetration. With the limited amount of cold air available to the LED, how long before it overheats and starts affecting the life of a projector/reflector? I've not seen anyone debating on this so any info on it will be helpful.
This is a misconception and let me clarify on this aspect. Leds emit 80% of their energy consumed as light and only 20% of it is wasted as heat. So out of 50w which an led consumes, 40w is converted to light and only 10w is given off as heat. This heat generated however can be harmful for the led diode as if the junction temperature gets high (say above 150 degrees) the led chip will fail prematurely. Hence it is necessary to have a fan in high wattage leds to draw away the heat from the led chip and keep it cool. The heat generated though is very minimal (10w).

In the case of halogen bulbs a 55w bulb will give off almost 85% of the energy consumed as heat - so almost 47w is given off as heat while only 8w is converted to light. But because the filament in bulbs is meant to be hot (it reaches 2000 Degrees) and is not affected by heat, you do not need any cooling system to cool the filament.

So headlights which are designed for working with Halogen bulbs can easily accomodate LEDs as the heat output will be 1/4th of the original heat output.
UV emission is also not a problem with LEDs as the Light emission spectrum is tightly controlled and light from UV ranges is not allowed to be generated for visible light LEDs.

Last edited by Behemoth : 24th March 2023 at 08:56.
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Old 24th March 2023, 12:23   #587
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

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Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
This is a misconception and let me clarify on this aspect. Leds emit 80% of their energy consumed as light and only 20% of it is wasted as heat. So out of 50w which an led consumes, 40w is converted to light and only 10w is given off as heat. This heat generated however can be harmful for the led diode as if the junction temperature gets high (say above 150 degrees) the led chip will fail prematurely. Hence it is necessary to have a fan in high wattage leds to draw away the heat from the led chip and keep it cool. The heat generated though is very minimal (10w).
LEDs in general are very efficient.

Except for white LEDs - since they are blue and then converted to white through some sort of Phospor mix. This reduces efficiency to about 40-50% depending on the type of bulb it is. The warm whites are less efficient than cool white due to additional filter on it.

There is considerable temperature to manage even at 50% because LEDs become less efficient and then die if temperature rises.

Here is an OEM example.



Its probably ~20W, but look at the size of heat sink attached to it.

There is no doubt LED is better than Halogen in absolute terms but LED retrofit bulb in a halogen assembly is not efficient.
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Old 24th March 2023, 17:07   #588
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

I recently bought the Osram hb3 50w 4200k leds - ordered them from Planet car care and received them in 2 days via dtdc (as they were shipped from Delhi to Gurgaon). This is what they look like and are similar size as the Osram 25w ones and should not be a problem to fit.
I have ordered them to fit in my Jeep Compass (which has projectors in which I had fitted 42w hids myself). Planning to replace now with these myself (hopefully this weekend or next!)
Cost was 6990 to me including free shipping.
Attached Thumbnails
Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades-img_20230324_170159.jpg  

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Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades-img_20230324_170112.jpg  

Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades-img_20230324_170047.jpg  

Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades-img_20230324_164628.jpg  


Last edited by Behemoth : 24th March 2023 at 17:10.
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Old 25th March 2023, 14:26   #589
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
Looking at these LEDs from Osram and other manufacturers, I can't help but think about their cooling mechanism and how it'll affect the life of the reflector or halogen projector. I'm sure they produce a lot more heat and a fan is added to maintain the temperature, but how effective it does that job is a question. For e.g. Nexon and other Tata cars have a closed headlight housing to prevent dust and moisture penetration. With the limited amount of cold air available to the LED, how long before it overheats and starts affecting the life of a projector/reflector? I've not seen anyone debating on this so any info on it will be helpful.
In cold weather countries an interesting product is available in the aftermarket called headlight heaters. This is a transparent film applied on the exterior of the headlight lens, its function is to melt frost as it accumulates on the headlight. In the halogen lamps its heat could melt the frost on the lens which the LED lights cannot, because they don't produce much heat inside the reflector and lens assembly. In many of these countries using a retrofit LED in reflector lights are legal as long as the LED bulb is certified legal; eg Philips 9xxx, Osram (not the 50W/25W ones sold here) and a few other makes.

In the past we used to get burnt reflectors (just above the bulb) and fast deteriorating plastic lens when used with high wattage halogens in a plastic headlight. This is happens more so with high wattage H4 halogens with that low beam filament cup directing all the heat up into the plastic reflector. Only the glass and metal headlights could run 100W and higher halogens safely for prolonged periods without damage. Now with the quality LED retrofits available burnt reflectors are a thing of the past and when installed correctly they output a perfect beam pattern, more light and less heat.

Edit:
As someone who has run reflector headlights with various high wattage halogens (Hella, Philips, Osram, GE), then HID retrofits (a lot of light everywhere) and gone back to high wattage halogen all I can say is that the LED retrofits are a boon. Ease of installation, reliability, beam pattern and light output. Only caveat choose the LED light source wisely, buy quality. With the 50W 4200K LEDs I don't miss the halogens. LED retrofit will only get better in the future as the technology evolves and it will becuase they are already legal in many places.

Last edited by Sankar : 25th March 2023 at 14:52.
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Old 25th March 2023, 18:31   #590
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
I recently bought the Osram hb3 50w 4200k leds - ordered them from Planet car care .Planning to replace now with these myself (hopefully this weekend or next!)
Eagerly waiting for the review thread so that I can also place an order
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Old 27th March 2023, 14:18   #591
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

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Originally Posted by nomad47 View Post
While installing LED inside a projector housing (HB3/9005), how should the LED beads seat? Should it be on left and right side or should it be on up and down inside the projector? Asking for Kia Seltos
by default most designs will lock vertical with LED facing left and right. Brands which allow rotation, you play with and see what gives best beam. In my XUV500 low beam projector, this default config works best. HB3 you can try and figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
Let me share a quick hand drawn image of the ideal Led orientation for both projector and reflector based systems.
The Projector based system (with shutter) like HB3 has a reflector as well as a collimator lens. In this system, the light going up from the bulbs forms the high beam and the light going going down (below horizontal plane) is the low beam. In this case the ideal orientation of the led blade is horizontal (led beads facing up and down). This will give the best beam distribution for HB3 and without any dark spots in either low beam or high beam.

Attachment 2431730

In case of reflector based systems (like H4 bulbs) the situation is different and the light going up from the bulb actually makes the low beam and the light going down from the bulb makes the High beam. So for Led H4 bulbs, You must have the led blade Vertical and the cutoff shield at bottom. Only in this case will you get the correct cutoff and beam distribution.
Thanks for sharing. I always assumed that the shutter in a projector is on the bottom side similar to reflector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.sumit View Post
Looking at these LEDs from Osram and other manufacturers, I can't help but think about their cooling mechanism and how it'll affect the life of the reflector or halogen projector. I'm sure they produce a lot more heat and a fan is added to maintain the temperature, but how effective it does that job is a question. For e.g. Nexon and other Tata cars have a closed headlight housing to prevent dust and moisture penetration. With the limited amount of cold air available to the LED, how long before it overheats and starts affecting the life of a projector/reflector? I've not seen anyone debating on this so any info on it will be helpful.
Other members have already explained. LEDs by far run way more cooler than halogens and more efficiently. Infact even after long usage the LEDs barely even warm the outer plastic lens where as halogens tend to make it hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
I recently bought the Osram hb3 50w 4200k leds - ordered them from Planet car care and received them in 2 days via dtdc (as they were shipped from Delhi to Gurgaon). This is what they look like and are similar size as the Osram 25w ones and should not be a problem to fit.
I have ordered them to fit in my Jeep Compass (which has projectors in which I had fitted 42w hids myself). Planning to replace now with these myself (hopefully this weekend or next!)
Cost was 6990 to me including free shipping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artyom View Post
Eagerly waiting for the review thread so that I can also place an order
This is very interesting. A good quality 50W LED setup will be game changer and surely beat HIDs in terms of illumination. I am running 25W OSRAM H7 currently and been very happy with them. Do share some comparison insights in your review.
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Old 27th March 2023, 14:37   #592
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

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Originally Posted by supertinu View Post
by default most designs will lock vertical with LED facing left and right. Brands which allow rotation, you play with and see what gives best beam. In my XUV500 low beam projector, this default config works best. HB3 you can try and figure.
Thanks for sharing. I always assumed that the shutter in a projector is on the bottom side similar to reflector.
Yes that is generally the default, but nowadays most Led bulb manufacturers are putting a small grub screw for the ring locking on the body and also giving an allen key along with the bulb (Osram has done that). With these you can lock and rotate the blade in any direction as desired.
I will check and rotate to see what gives the most effective beam, but I am sure that in my case (with shuttered projector) it should be flat led blade with led beads pointing up and down.
In case of vertical blade, there is a 30 degree dead zone which I would not want at all in my low or high beams. In fact in the past I had tried almost 4-5 led bulbs in my Compass but rejected all of them and finally had gone with 42w HID (via Aliexpress) and had installed that myself.
While the light output is good, there are two problems with the HID kit
1) shadow of ground wire in the low beam leads to a slight dark spot
2) high beam flash function does not work in day as the hid bulb needs time to warm up

So when Osram launched these 50w 4200k bulbs, I went with them and hopefully the results should be worth it (once installed).

In terms of projectors there are quite a few variants possible with ellipsoid, parabolic or free form reflectors and also different types of lenses like planoconvex lenses. There is a alot of good experimentation happening on this front . We even have some good versions available with multi geometry hyperboloid lenses and with lasers too.
Laser diodes are the latest innovation and when used with hyperboloid lenses they can have a reach of almost 1000m!

Last edited by Behemoth : 27th March 2023 at 14:38.
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Old 30th March 2023, 22:59   #593
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

These 4200k 50W LEDs from a reputed company look to be something that many people had been waiting for from a long time. Thanks for sharing the info here folks.

Any idea if these are waterproof? I'm planning to install them in the (halogen) projectors of a motorcycle with the fan being exposed to the environment. It won't be exposed to water continuously during rains but a small part of water may trickle down or splash and make contact with it. There can also be some contact with water during washes. That makes me a little wary.

Last edited by theredliner : 30th March 2023 at 23:00.
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Old 1st April 2023, 16:52   #594
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
Let me share a quick hand drawn image of the ideal Led orientation for both projector and reflector based systems.
The Projector based system (with shutter) like HB3 has a reflector as well as a collimator lens. In this system, the light going up from the bulbs forms the high beam and the light going going down (below horizontal plane) is the low beam. In this case the ideal orientation of the led blade is horizontal (led beads facing up and down). This will give the best beam distribution for HB3 and without any dark spots in either low beam or high beam.

Attachment 2431730

In case of reflector based systems (like H4 bulbs) the situation is different and the light going up from the bulb actually makes the low beam and the light going down from the bulb makes the High beam. So for Led H4 bulbs, You must have the led blade Vertical and the cutoff shield at bottom. Only in this case will you get the correct cutoff and beam distribution.
Thanks Behemoth for this insight. XUV 300 (with H7 halogen bulbs) has both Projector (low beam) and Reflectors (high beam). Don't know if Projector is shuttered. So will these Horizontal & Vertical LED alignment work for XUV 300. If yes then I can get 50W Osram for Projectors too.
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Old 2nd April 2023, 20:05   #595
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

Hello to all the experts here,

Looking for some advice on headlight upgrade for my 2019 S-Cross Delta.
Specifically, I am looking at a replacement for the High Beam - currently using the factory fitted H7 (12V 55W)

I was recommended to use GVAA LED Headlight Bulbs 120W Super Bright - H7. Available here:
https://autosquads.in/products/GVAA-...-H7-p532138164

Any review of this; or any other specific suggestions?

I am looking for a plug and play option and do not want to do any modifications/augmentation to the electrical circuits.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 2nd April 2023, 20:08   #596
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

I am new to the forum and I have read about headlight upgrades on this thread, I still have a question in my mind.

I am planning to upgrade headlight of my Swift 2017 and contacted a nearby car accessories guy, I specifically asked him to go for 90/100 Philips halogen with relay but he is pushing for LED saying 90/100 would cause yellowness of headlights in few years. Can someone please suggest the best headlight upgrade.
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Old 5th April 2023, 15:06   #597
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by theredliner View Post
Any idea if these are waterproof? I'm planning to install them in the (halogen) projectors of a motorcycle with the fan being exposed to the environment. It won't be exposed to water continuously during rains but a small part of water may trickle down or splash and make contact with it. There can also be some contact with water during washes. That makes me a little wary.
I would be vary of water proof claims esp for mechanical parts. If exposed you are better of getting the LEDs which have head sinks in place of fan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JKBKS View Post
Thanks Behemoth for this insight. XUV 300 (with H7 halogen bulbs) has both Projector (low beam) and Reflectors (high beam). Don't know if Projector is shuttered. So will these Horizontal & Vertical LED alignment work for XUV 300. If yes then I can get 50W Osram for Projectors too.
JKBKS, you can order and tune the alignment as it can be twisted. I will be tough to confirm without actually having used the specific LED model on a XUV300 projector. YOu can try 25W OSrams first from amazon for test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anand_roy View Post
Hello to all the experts here,

Looking for some advice on headlight upgrade for my 2019 S-Cross Delta.
Specifically, I am looking at a replacement for the High Beam - currently using the factory fitted H7 (12V 55W)

I was recommended to use GVAA LED Headlight Bulbs 120W Super Bright - H7. Available here:
https://autosquads.in/products/GVAA-...-H7-p532138164

Any review of this; or any other specific suggestions?

I am looking for a plug and play option and do not want to do any modifications/augmentation to the electrical circuits.

Thanks for the help.
I think SCross high beam is a reflector. If so then I would suggest against LEDs on it. LEDs on reflector high beams scatter a lot and on highway usage the throw distance actually reduced. I am also wary of these unbranded LEDs claiming 120W. More wattage means lot more heat and reduced reliability. Most brands are around 25W per light. OSRAM is first branded one with 50W, but we need some real world reports on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draunzer21 View Post
I am new to the forum and I have read about headlight upgrades on this thread, I still have a question in my mind.

I am planning to upgrade headlight of my Swift 2017 and contacted a nearby car accessories guy, I specifically asked him to go for 90/100 Philips halogen with relay but he is pushing for LED saying 90/100 would cause yellowness of headlights in few years. Can someone please suggest the best headlight upgrade.
Stick to halogens on reflectors. LEDs is not a good solution unless you try and see before finalizing. Yellowness can creep in on plastic lens with time, but Swift lights assembly will be cheaper than the LEDs to replace if you keep the car for long enough duration.
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Old 5th April 2023, 22:15   #598
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

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Originally Posted by supertinu View Post
I think SCross high beam is a reflector. If so then I would suggest against LEDs on it. LEDs on reflector high beams scatter a lot and on highway usage the throw distance actually reduced. I am also wary of these unbranded LEDs claiming 120W. More wattage means lot more heat and reduced reliability. Most brands are around 25W per light. OSRAM is first branded one with 50W, but we need some real world reports on it.
Thanks for the insight and sorry for this dumb question: How do I confirm/understand that the high beam is a reflector? The manual only specifies it as 12V 55W H7 Halogen.

Also, what would be a good replacement for the stock H7? I feel that the high beam is underpowered in the highways. I have started more night driving on the highways, hence wanted a good replacement which is readily available and is plug and play.
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Old 6th April 2023, 10:58   #599
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by anand_roy View Post
Thanks for the insight and sorry for this dumb question: How do I confirm/understand that the high beam is a reflector? The manual only specifies it as 12V 55W H7 Halogen.

Also, what would be a good replacement for the stock H7? I feel that the high beam is underpowered in the highways. I have started more night driving on the highways, hence wanted a good replacement which is readily available and is plug and play.
Anand, do you have separate low and high beams? maybe share a pic of the headlight to be sure.

Reflector as the name suggest is going to be look like bunch of mirrors vs. projector has a lens in front. Since your main interest is highway driving, throw distance of the light is important and nothing beats halogens for throw unless you get warmer 4300K LEDs which are in short supply.
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Old 8th April 2023, 09:25   #600
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Re: Comprehensive guide to LED Headlight upgrades

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Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
So when Osram launched these 50w 4200k bulbs, I went with them and hopefully the results should be worth it (once installed).
Hi Behemoth, how are you finding these? Since you have formerly tried Osram LED 25W 6000K, could you share how Osram 50W 4200K LEDs compare with these in real world conditions?

I have Osram LED 25W 6000K on my Jazz (reflector setup) and am muling upgrading to 50W 4200K, but after getting some real world reviews from those who have used the latter.

On a different (yet relevant) note, I am very thankful to have IPH M617 tri-colour LED fog lamps installed on my Honda Jazz VX CVT (which did not even have fog lamps, had only LED DRLs). Replacing them with LED fog lamps has been extremely useful as our night drives are so much comfortable (albeit against Honda advice / threat that electrical warranty would be voided).

And yet(!) I feel the main headlamps (Osram LED 25W 6000K), even though they are pretty good for the Jazz reflector setup in general, are falling short especially with oncoming vehicles with bright yellow lights (which is when I miss the weaker stock halogen headlamps), hence thinking of upgrading these to Osram LED 50W 4200K LEDs.

Last edited by jaysheth : 8th April 2023 at 09:27.
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