[Arka Saha]

Hello to all my fellow Bhpians!

First of all, I want to thank the moderators who approved my membership.

Now coming to my introduction, I am Arka Saha from Kolkata, running in my 30th Year, and I have recently started having the feeling of driving always!!!

I, am a legal professional newly moved base to Bangalore from Mumbai.

Although I had always been interested in both bikes and cars, I had mostly been riding bikes as opposed to both riding and driving, till the end of 2017. I have owned bikes like the Honda CBR 250R, Pulsar 200, etc. I currently own a Ktm Duke 390 which I bought in 2015. That same year, I even rode it from Pune to Kolkata.

However, since the end of 2017 my attention started shifting more towards cars. I started looking for used cars during the same year and finally zeroed in on a red 2010 Honda Jazz in May 2018 and finally bought the car in June 2018. After getting the car, I gave it to a trusted mechanic for usual service and he gave me an approx. estimate for all the work to be done on it. Finally I got the work done and all was good till the time I started craving for more performance.

In the third quarter of 2019 after I came back from a road trip to Kerala, I had a stern realization that I would surely need more power from my car than I was currently getting. But any further thoughts would have to be kept on hold as it was the end of 2019 and I had to shift to Bangalore for my new job.

After settling down in Bangalore by the end of January 2020, I finally got time to think about the performance bump and started researching on the probable ways through which such performance bump would be possible. Just to clarify, I did not want to shift to a different car as I had ideas of making my own hot hatch out of the 2010 Honda Jazz. But unfortunately, that took a halt because of COVID.

Ultimately, the lock down was lifted and I could give my car for a thorough service which included a clutch change, headlight assembly change, brake pad change, oil change, wheel alignment, etc. Now, I will be receiving the car back from service next week.

During the past two weeks, I have been in discussion with few well known names in the tuning business in Bangalore exploring the options that are available. For clarification, I am looking for a substantial increase in power and merely going for a decat/cat-back exhaust and intake along with remapping the stock ECU would not amount to substantial gain as per my understanding considering that the Jazz with the L12 engine is already quite under-powered.

So out of the solutions suggested, the following seemed to be most promising:

1. Turbo charging
• Cost between 3.5 to 4 lacs

2. L15A7 Engine swap
• With tuned custom exhaust (full system in SS) and intake (BMC with SS piping) along with cylinder head work – Cost around 2 lacs.
• There are also recommended upgrades available at extra cost with this build. For example: A custom final drive for better acceleration, stand alone ecu, etc.
• FYI – Engine Number would not change

I have considered Suspension, Brakes and Spark plug upgrades as the next stage of the process along with better Coil Packs. The primary reason for that is to stick to a budget and the secondary reason is that the Jazz (Fit) GE8 has been sold in some countries with the same 1.5 litre i-vtec engine (L15A7) available in the Honda City Fifth generation (GM2/3). So, the stock suspension and brakes will be at least adequate if not excellent when it comes to handling.

FYI: Suspension upgrade would cost around 90k for coil-overs and 15k for drilled rotors of the stock size with better pads and steel braided lines.

That’s more or less where I am at right now. Have a lot more things to share with all of you. But lets keep those for the days to come. Thank you for having the patience to go through my endless blabbering.

Awaiting your valuable inputs and looking forward to hearing from all of you!!

[2000rpm]

I am sorry if I discourage you, but with the amount of money you are planning to put in, it will be better if you just trade in the car and buy a used powerful car which is built for speed.

The Jazz cant be a performance car, period! It was designed for a family user with space and comfort in mind. There is no point in buying a Pigeon and trying to paint it into a parrot. Just get a new parrot.

In fact with your budget for upgrades, you can get some really good cult cars like Civic.

[TheHelix0202]

Hello Arka, it is possible to swap out your stock 1.2L L12A I4 engine for the CRV’s K24 engine if you want a “true” performance mod. Do it only if you have the time, money and inclination though.

Quoting fellow BHPian bhuvan_prasad: Yes. A K24 engine can be shoe horned into the Jazz. It's not easy or straightforward and requires a fair bit of work. It also becomes especially painful when you've to access the engine to change plugs, fill oil etc. The jazz here has 17" rims and a K24Z2 engine+gearbox from the 2008-12 Accord.

Here’s the forum link to the page:https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...a-civic-3.html (The story of India's first 2.4L Turbo Honda Civic!)

[Arka Saha]

The Jazz cant be a performance car, period! It was designed for a family user with space and comfort in mind.

First of all let me make one thing clear that I am talking about a building/creating something over here. I know that it is a lot easier to just get a more powerful car. But the thing is that I want to maintain the same form factor and daily drive-ability and at the same time I want it to perform.

With that made clear, I agree that the Honda Jazz/Fit was designed with space and comfort in mind. However, I disagree that it cant be a performance car. The Honda Jazz has been used for racing and is quite a popular car amongst the tuning community in quite a few countries like Thailand, Philippines USA and India. Mods range from engine swaps to installing sprintex superchargers. Not to mention the usual mods like suspension and brakes and other handling upgrades.

There are numerous videos available on the internet to substantiate my claim. Anyways, here is a link where you can see a K swapped Honda Fit/Jazz participate and do quite well in an Endurance race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrnCpimnjH4&t=841s

Here is another another example with the K20 engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=772PV5wZBcM

Here is an example from India: https://www.facebook.com/n1racingequ...5138253749651/

Hello Arka, it is possible to swap out your stock 1.2L L12A I4 engine for the CRV’s K24 engine if you want a “true” performance mod. Do it only if you have the time, money and inclination though.

Thank you for the insight. However, I am aware of that option. Firstly, the whole intent here is to keep the build as close to OEM as possible keeping the reliability in mind. Like how a respected Bhpian like 'Frank Mehta' has done with his Brio (Crio). You must be aware that the Jazz is sold abroad with the L15 engine which is available in our honda city (5th Generation) so the engine compartment in the Brio and Jazz do not require any mods to accommodate that engine. Secondly, sticking to the L15 engine ensures that my engine number would not change as most parts of the L12 and L15 engines are similar. So few things need changing not all. Moreover, the L15 swap in the Brio and Jazz has already been done by a number of people and they have been quite successful with it. Even the stock ECU can be retained if one wants.

If all goes well then just the engine swap would give me atleast 25hp more. Adding to that the tuned exhaust the cylinder head work and the intake.


Your view??!!

[GTO]

Not a fan of engine swaps in India. For every 1 positive story I hear, there are 25 bad ones. The reliability & quality is just not there. I'd agree with 2000rpm that it's better to upgrade to a more powerful car. Factory horses are factory horses . Factory fit is factory fit .

@ Arka: Would strongly recommend this thread, read it post by post - Brio with 1.5L engine swap.

[jsrakkar]

L15, K18 and K24 engine swaps into Honda Fit/Jazz are quite common in the US of A (there are multiple threads on FitFreak forum on this topic). There are multiple websites as well, which sell pre-fabricated mounts and other stuff required for all these swaps.

Check instagram for racejazz; he is a delhi based racer/rallyist who earlier had L14A7 in his Jazz and then moved to K24 which is used for road/track racing. A track focussed Brio and Ignis are also part of the same garage, if I'm not wrong. A thing to note here is that this guy is the distributor for Dixcel Brakes (among many other things) and a pro-racer, so he would have access to a lot of knowledgeable resources which would be definitely required to make such a major modification a success.

Wishing you all the luck!

Regards,
Jaspreet Singh

[KMT]

I have had two experiences with engine swaps and they both caused me untold grief. Perhaps a better candidate for upgrading will be a Laura or may even a Polo.

You will have more robust mechsnicals and you can do some serious BHP, Suspension and Brake upgrades to the existing hardware.
To get the same go cart ferl as your planned build do try a Venue 1Ltr GDI.

See, after you build yr dream car its no fun seeing Venues or old Lauras whizzing past.

[Yakuza]

Originally Posted by Arka Saha

1. Turbo charging
• Cost between 3.5 to 4 lacs

2. L15A7 Engine swap
• With tuned custom exhaust (full system in SS) and intake (BMC with SS piping) along with cylinder head work – Cost around 2 lacs.
• There are also recommended upgrades available at extra cost with this build. For example: A custom final drive for better acceleration, stand alone ecu, etc.

The L15A7 swap would be the easiest and most reliable of the two, considering it is pretty straight forward. My advice would be to avoid the exhaust and intake unless you want the noise, and especially avoid the headwork from these so called race tuners. The best bang for the buck mod will be the final drive, you will really feel it and enjoy it. I have been down this road of modifying cars from our tuners personally and also have seen the scene from different perspectives, so I talk from experience. Swap + Final Drive is what I would recommend.

Originally Posted by jsrakkar

Check instagram for racejazz; he is a delhi based racer/rallyist who earlier had L14A7 in his Jazz and then moved to K24 which is used for road/track racing. A track focussed Brio and Ignis are also part of the same garage, if I'm not wrong. A thing to note here is that this guy is the distributor for Dixcel Brakes (among many other things) and a pro-racer, so he would have access to a lot of knowledgeable resources which would be definitely required to make such a major modification a success.

The person who owns the Jazz and the Brio is a different person from the person who owns the Ignis. The person who owns the Ignis is a distributer for many performance brands including Dixcel Brakes just like you said.

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by Arka Saha

Hello to all my fellow Bhpians!

First of all, I want to thank the moderators who approved my membership.

Now coming to my introduction, I am Arka Saha from Kolkata, running in my 30th Year, and I have recently...

Finally I got the work done and all was good till the time I started craving for more performance.

In the third quarter of 2019 after I came back from a road trip to Kerala, I had a stern realization that I would surely need more power from my car than I was currently getting. But any further thoughts would have to be kept on hold as it was the end of 2019 and I had to shift to Bangalore for my new job.

After settling down in Bangalore by the end of January 2020, I finally got time to think about the performance bump and started researching on the probable ways through which such performance bump would be possible. Just to clarify, I did not want to shift to a different car as I had ideas of making my own hot hatch out of the 2010 Honda Jazz. But unfortunately, that took a halt because of COVID.

...

During the past two weeks, I have been in discussion with few well known names in the tuning business in Bangalore exploring the options that are available. For clarification, I am looking for a substantial increase in power and merely going for a decat/cat-back exhaust and intake along with remapping the stock ECU would not amount to substantial gain as per my understanding considering that the Jazz with the L12 engine is already quite under-powered.

So out of the solutions suggested, the following seemed to be most promising:

1. Turbo charging
• Cost between 3.5 to 4 lacs

2. L15A7 Engine swap
• With tuned custom exhaust (full system in SS) and intake (BMC with SS piping) along with cylinder head work – Cost around 2 lacs.
• There are also recommended upgrades available at extra cost with this build. For example: A custom final drive for better acceleration, stand alone ecu, etc.
• FYI – Engine Number would not change

I have considered Suspension, Brakes and Spark plug upgrades as the next stage of the process along with better Coil Packs. The primary reason for that is to stick to a budget and the secondary reason is that the Jazz (Fit) GE8 has been sold in some countries with the same 1.5 litre i-vtec engine (L15A7) available in the Honda City Fifth generation (GM2/3). So, the stock suspension and brakes will be at least adequate if not excellent when it comes to handling.

FYI: Suspension upgrade would cost around 90k for coil-overs and 15k for drilled rotors of the stock size with better pads and steel braided lines.
...!!

First of all, welcome aboard.

Secondly, I'd suggest that you learn to walk before you try to run. I don't have much first hand experience of owning two wheelers except the venerable Bajaj scooter, but I can vouch for the fact that cars are way more complex and modifying them is way more challenging than tinkering with motorcycles, especially given that so far motorcycles sold in India were technologically inferior to the contemporaneous cars.

Which brings us to the second question- that of available skills. If some of the famous 4x4 "customiser" are indicative of that bunch, most of the vehicle modifiers in India are unable to tell their their arse from their elbows. And this even when the subject is usually a crude Mahindra jeep- a relatively crudely engineered vehicle when compared to a Honda, or any Japanese vehicle for that matter. Each Japanese machine is a very finely balanced feat of engineering, and any changes beyond part swap from a higher version is going to degrade the vehicle. I am speaking about it from my personal experience with both Mahindras and Suzukis. And the Jazz is one of the most intensely engineered Jap machine.

Thus, unless you have a bolt on solution to your power requirements- including transmission and braking mods- you are digging yourself an endless money pit.

Moreover, the most important criterion of a touring machine is reliability. Everything else comes later. By doing all that you are planning to do, you will compromise the reliability of the car for unknown gains. I have travelled across pretty much every possible kind of roads in this country in the smallest and least powerful cars available, and at the end of the day's run there wasn't any significant difference between me and the more powerful cars around, unless driven by suicidal maniacs. And what is more important is that I was never stranded in the middle of the road- something that I have seen happening to cars ten times more expensive than mine. Only because my vehicle was simpler and well maintained. And simplicity helps with maintenance- something that modifications will take away from the car.

The amount that you are spending will get you an excellent used car as a touring machine. Even a 20 year old Toyota Corolla will be a better bet than what you are planning to make. I suggest that you go down the bigger used car road. For thrills, pick up a cheap Alto K10 and and play around with it to gain experience.

[frankmehta]

I just crossed 40000 km on the Crio.
A testament to how reliable she has been is the fact that my parents have been taking care of her since two years.

The only thing she’s needed in these two Years have been consumables, wear and tear items and a new battery.

I stand by the L15 swap and going by your thread, that’s exactly what the doctor ordered for You.

[salmankazi85]

I have been looking around for a reliable hatchback in the used car market after I sold my polo. I always liked the jazz but was not very fond of the dashboard design. But eventually, it grew up on me. I am looking around for a 2015 upwards jazz and yes even I have this dream project in mind of upsizing to the 1.5 vtec engine. Simply because it is sold from the factory with that engine in other markets. So, the upgrade and reliability won't be tossed out the window with this route.
I would suggest not the to do any headwork, rather stick to the stock head of the L15 engine, run it for a few months and then understand whether you want to upgrade the final drive. Even for this , I would suggest to stick to the oem parts of the honda city's transmission. then do the brakes and suspension.

this mod is not as complicated and twisted as some people are pointing out, just stick to stock headers and all parts from the L 15 engine. please keep this post updated. Will be hooked to this for your experiences.

[Arka Saha]

Originally Posted by salmankazi85

I have been looking around for a reliable hatchback in the used car market after I sold my polo. I always liked the jazz but was not very fond of the dashboard design. But eventually, it grew up on me. I am looking around for a 2015 upwards jazz and yes even I have this dream project in mind of upsizing to the 1.5 vtec engine. Simply because it is sold from the factory with that engine in other markets. So, the upgrade and reliability won't be tossed out the window with this route.
I would suggest not the to do any headwork, rather stick to the stock head of the L15 engine, run it for a few months and then understand whether you want to upgrade the final drive. Even for this , I would suggest to stick to the oem parts of the honda city's transmission. then do the brakes and suspension.

this mod is not as complicated and twisted as some people are pointing out, just stick to stock headers and all parts from the L 15 engine. please keep this post updated. Will be hooked to this for your experiences.

Logged back in to team bhp after a long gap.

Sorry to disappoint you but after reading through the above suggestions, I decided not to go down the engine swap path...the main reason being the legality part of it and second reliability. No matter what anyone says, its bound to cause issues (maybe minor) now and then when a car has its whole engine replaced. Also, I did not want to continue with a used car as it gives additional problems.

Instead i wanted to start with a clean slate and a good foundation..Thats why went ahead and bought a new polo tsi highline plus because it has enough in stock to keep me occupied for quite a few years till the warranty gets over...after that i can start with the tuning. Just wrote a post on my how I decided to go for the polo in. New post called "MY new Polo TSI". You can check that out as well, if you want.

Sorry again to have disappointed you!