[payam]

Originally Posted by BUSA

payam you said you havenot seen any angel lights for the Palio, so i posted a image, earlier posted by MF, that it is there & can be imported from cardomain.

It is not in india dude,see the steering which is in left side.
See his post once more he has mentioned in Chile.

[KwokFist]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Ditto... In S10 only the 5th is an overdrive unlike the regular GTX where 4th and 5th both are overdrive ratio's.

If so, what about the Palio 1.6 Sport and Palio 1.6 Stile? Are 4th and 5th gears in these two overdrive as well??

[vivanbhathena]

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Do NOT SPAM or MARKET on this forum. You need to familiarise yourself with our rules before proceeding any further.

[sapl]

A recent project of ours - a Palio 1.6 turbocharged.

Puts out about 176 bhp.

Please note the custom fabricated intake manifold.

Will give details later.

[stuntfreak]

Wow. This looks really good! Where's this car? Would like to see it if you dont mind.

[johy]

Looking forward to details, any changes in suspension and braking as well.

[binz]

Originally Posted by sapl

A recent project of ours - a Palio 1.6 turbocharged.

Puts out about 176 bhp.

Please note the custom fabricated intake manifold.

Will give details later.

Thats a really clean job on the Intake manifold! Great job, must be tons of fun to drive!

[vijaycool]

Originally Posted by sapl

A recent project of ours - a Palio 1.6 turbocharged.

Puts out about 176 bhp.

Please note the custom fabricated intake manifold.

Will give details later.

Very nicely mod. Inlet manifold must go off to fit the turbo. Few Q's from my side
1. I can see vacuum hose is connected to the Brake booster assembly. Due to this BB will get less vacuum and the brakes will be hard which is dangerous for the already inadequate stock brakes. Did you plan for any mechanical vacuum pump.
2. what the pressure its running now.
3. Have you used any custom ecu for the engine management.
4. Which turbo you have used and whats te A/R ratio.

Due to 0 degree valve overlap Palio 1.6 16V motors easily accepts turbo charging

[sapl]

Originally Posted by stuntfreak

Wow. This looks really good! Where's this car? Would like to see it if you dont mind.

I will ask the owner and revert to you !

Originally Posted by johy

Looking forward to details, any changes in suspension and braking as well.

Will give more details soon. The brakes have been upgraded to Wilwood 4 pot calipers and 295 mm rotors.

Originally Posted by vijaycool

Very nicely mod. Inlet manifold must go off to fit the turbo. Few Q's from my side
1. I can see vacuum hose is connected to the Brake booster assembly. Due to this BB will get less vacuum and the brakes will be hard which is dangerous for the already inadequate stock brakes. Did you plan for any mechanical vacuum pump.
2. what the pressure its running now.
3. Have you used any custom ecu for the engine management.
4. Which turbo you have used and whats te A/R ratio.

1. As mentioned above, the brakes have been upgraded. The problem of insufficient brake boost will happen only if brakes are applied when the throttle is also pressed. If you are off the throttle, there will be good engine vacuum to give brake boost like an NA car. We have not faced any problem with inadequate brake boost so far.

2. We are going up to 12 psi.

3. We use the OE ecu with the Unichip Q+. The Unichip does the following functions:

i) Closed loop boost control. We have 2 maps at present (the Unichip can have 5 switchable maps). Each of these maps has different boost and fuelling maps.

ii) Control extra injector. We do not disturb the original injectors. We only use an extra injector to provide additional fuel when needed. The oe ecu handles all regular functions like cold start, idle control etc. Therefore the car never has any starting problem.

iii) The Unichip also modifies the ignition advance as required.

4. The turbo is a KKK K03 derived turbo configured to our specs. The A/R ratio is around 0.5. We place more emphasis on the compressor flow map. I have attached the flow map - though not a very good resolution.

[sapl]

I am attaching a picture of one wheel with the upgraded brakes.

The calipers are 4 pot Wilwood.

The rotors are custom made 295 mm rotors with custom made aircraft grade aluminium hat sections. The caliper mount brackets are custom designed and made for the Palio.

[lucifer919]

Originally Posted by sapl

I will ask the owner and revert to you !



Will give more details soon. The brakes have been upgraded to Wilwood 4 pot calipers and 295 mm rotors.



1. As mentioned above, the brakes have been upgraded. The problem of insufficient brake boost will happen only if brakes are applied when the throttle is also pressed. If you are off the throttle, there will be good engine vacuum to give brake boost like an NA car. We have not faced any problem with inadequate brake boost so far.

2. We are going up to 12 psi.

3. We use the OE ecu with the Unichip Q+. The Unichip does the following functions:

i) Closed loop boost control. We have 2 maps at present (the Unichip can have 5 switchable maps). Each of these maps has different boost and fuelling maps.

ii) Control extra injector. We do not disturb the original injectors. We only use an extra injector to provide additional fuel when needed. The oe ecu handles all regular functions like cold start, idle control etc. Therefore the car never has any starting problem.

iii) The Unichip also modifies the ignition advance as required.

4. The turbo is a KKK K03 derived turbo configured to our specs. The A/R ratio is around 0.5. We place more emphasis on the compressor flow map. I have attached the flow map - though not a very good resolution.

Holy Hell!! A project after my own heart!

To begin with, i have a few questions:
1. Are you running 12PSI on the stock internals? If not stock, what internals are you using?
2. Custom intake manifold looks amazing. Was this a one off build or can we get one made as well on order?
3. Don't you think a standalone ECU would probably do more justice than using a unichip? What injectors and fuel pump being used here? Not sure if the OEM pump is capable of building high enough pressure for a turbo setup.
4. Are custom cams being used or the OE cams?
5. Need more details on the brakes. Before any performance gains, i believe this car needs better brakes. Can we get these shipped to us if required?
6. Definitely want to know what the monetary cost of this was. If not comfortable sharing on the forum, please do PM me a number for reference.

Regards,
Kiran.

[sapl]

Originally Posted by lucifer919

Holy Hell!! A project after my own heart!

To begin with, i have a few questions:
1. Are you running 12PSI on the stock internals? If not stock, what internals are you using?
2. Custom intake manifold looks amazing. Was this a one off build or can we get one made as well on order?
3. Don't you think a standalone ECU would probably do more justice than using a unichip? What injectors and fuel pump being used here? Not sure if the OEM pump is capable of building high enough pressure for a turbo setup.
4. Are custom cams being used or the OE cams?
5. Need more details on the brakes. Before any performance gains, i believe this car needs better brakes. Can we get these shipped to us if required?
6. Definitely want to know what the monetary cost of this was. If not comfortable sharing on the forum, please do PM me a number for reference.

Regards,
Kiran.

1. The internals are stock. We had completely taken apart the engine and studied the internals before deciding to use them. The other problem was the availability of forged rods etc for this engine. 12 psi is probably about the limit for the stock internals.

2. The manifold was custom made, but can be made again. However, we make them for our projects, not as components for resale.

3. I strongly believe that the oe ecu with a GOOD piggyback is the best way to go. That way we get the best of both worlds. Never have a cold starting or idling problem in any condition. Also, if at all there is any mechanical failure of components like the turbo, all you need is do disconnect the hose and the car becomes a stock car ! At the same time, we get enormous flexibility is tuning the car.

The fuel pump is a Walbro 255 lph pump. Stock pumps can generate the pressure, but cannot maintain the required flow rates for high power application.

The injectors are stock injectors plus one extra injector of 660 cc capacity.

4. Cams are stock cams.

5. The calipers are 4 pot forged Aluminium Wilwood Dynapro fixed calipers with street pads. The pads have at least 4 levels of upgraded compounds possible. The rotors are custom made 295 mm dia rotors of 23 mm thickness. The hat sections for the rotors are made of aircraft grade Aluminium and the caliper mount brackets are made from steel. Except for the calipers and the pads, the other components are made / machined in Coimbatore. Although we could consider shipping a kit to you, we strongly advise fitment at our facility in view of the critical nature of brakes.

6. It is not proper to share commercials on the open forum. Will send details separately. Why don't you drop in some time and see how we do things ? On hand are the following projects:

i) Turbocharging of A- Star
ii) Supercharging of Gypsy

We have also just completed a Baleno with turbocharging, upgraded brakes and suspension.

Cheers

[vijaycool]

Originally Posted by sapl

1. The internals are stock. We had completely taken apart the engine and studied the internals before deciding to use them. The other problem was the availability of forged rods etc for this engine. 12 psi is probably about the limit for the stock internals.

3. I strongly believe that the oe ecu with a GOOD piggyback is the best way to go. That way we get the best of both worlds. Never have a cold starting or idling problem in any condition. Also, if at all there is any mechanical failure of components like the turbo, all you need is do disconnect the hose and the car becomes a stock car ! At the same time, we get enormous flexibility is tuning the car.

The fuel pump is a Walbro 255 lph pump. Stock pumps can generate the pressure, but cannot maintain the required flow rates for high power application.

The injectors are stock injectors plus one extra injector of 660 cc capacity.

4. Cams are stock cams.

Cheers

Let me say thankyou for the effort you have put to wakeup the dead/forgot horse (GTX). Also thanks for explaining in detail.
I must ask this question to an expert and seems its time now.
How do you compare the strength of the European internals with Jap ? Apart from ease of availability of aftermarket spares for the japs. Honest answer pls.
Since you have remanufactured the brake kit for the palio, did you changed Hub from 98mm pcd to 100 pcd. Is this possible without converter?
I can see from the pic, there is a Rising Rate Regulator for the fuel. Wont be tough to calculate injecton quantity in milli secs. Also looks like you have converted returnless system to returnable fuel system. Are you using any Wideband O2 sensor to keep in check on the injected quantity.
Reg point 4. Does stock cams are really 0deg overlap as mentioned in service manual.
Palio has 9.5:1 CR does 12psi sounds too high.
Also I can see you have replaced the radiator, relocated the coolant bottle. Any reason for this change.

Regards,
Vijay

[sapl]

Originally Posted by vijaycool

Let me say thankyou for the effort you have put to wakeup the dead/forgot horse (GTX). Also thanks for explaining in detail.
I must ask this question to an expert and seems its time now.
How do you compare the strength of the European internals with Jap ? Apart from ease of availability of aftermarket spares for the japs. Honest answer pls.
Since you have remanufactured the brake kit for the palio, did you changed Hub from 98mm pcd to 100 pcd. Is this possible without converter?
I can see from the pic, there is a Rising Rate Regulator for the fuel. Wont be tough to calculate injecton quantity in milli secs. Also looks like you have converted returnless system to returnable fuel system. Are you using any Wideband O2 sensor to keep in check on the injected quantity.
Reg point 4. Does stock cams are really 0deg overlap as mentioned in service manual.
Palio has 9.5:1 CR does 12psi sounds too high.
Also I can see you have replaced the radiator, relocated the coolant bottle. Any reason for this change.

Regards,
Vijay

I would not like to generalise between European and Japanese internals.

However, let me give you my take on the internals.

The pistons are almost similar and I do not see much difference. The conrods in the Fiat are MUCH beefier than either Honda or Suzuki with the exception of engines like the Honda B16. But The conrods of the Fiat are really heavy and will rob power at high rpms.

The crankshaft is similar to a Honda in strength and MUCH stronger than the Baleno.

One of the issues with Fiat is that their systems are much more complex and take a different approach whereas the Japanese approach is more straightforward.

We have not changed the pcd to 100 mm (the customer requirement did not need it), although we regularly do it for race cars in the ITC class. I do not foresee a big problem in doing so. This will involve machining the hub of the car. Since it is 4 x 98, converting to 4 x 100 should not normally be a problem.

We have not used an RPR for the fuel system, The fuel system is completely stock except for the replacement of the pump in the tank assembly with a Walbro pump. The system continues to be return-less system. The supplementary injector is controlled based on manifold pressure.

We use wideband O2 sensor during the dyno tuning to ensure proper AFR. This car has been fitted with a Fuel Pressure guage so any drop can be seen immediately by the driver. We have turbo'ed cars with RPRs also - there is no big problem in tuning on the dyno because rather than calculating the injector time, we adjust it on the dyno to get the proper AFR.

We have not checked the valve timing.

As mentioned earlier, the car has been provided with 2 maps which are selected by a switch on the dashboard. We have recommended the use of 97 octane petrol for the higher boost map. The map for regular petrol runs at around 6 psi. We have also retarded the timing to ensure engine safety. If proper petrol will be used, we can easily push the power of the engine up.

The oe radiator was pathetically insufficient to handle the higher power. It also has very closely spaced fins so cleaning is a problem. The coolant bottle has been relocated to allow the turbo plumbing.

The oil cooler was also changed and relocated to accommodate the intercooler.

Will post more pics soon.

Hope this answers your questions.

[vijaycool]

Thanks for sharing the difference. Thick connecting rod could be the fact this engine is a sized down version of 1.8 16V to 1.6 16V and generated 125hp. I do believe ecu part is tough to crack in European cars considering internals are so strong it can easily take higher HP apart from lack of upgrade parts.
Is the clutch uprated ? If yes may I know what you have used.
Can you tell me which radiator is being used. My car's radiator is already due for replacement and constantly overheated.
Have you pushed the revv limiter from the stock 7200rpm to higher as this engine can easily rev to 10000 rpm?
The oil cooler was also changed and relocated to accommodate the intercooler.
Does palio got oil cooler?