Team-BHP - Monkeys remapped RS on the dyno. Only 144 BHP at the wheels?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ananthkamath (Post 731420)

Thanks for enlightening me. I was only suggesting it as a stopgap measure to stop all the speculation.

no need for sarcasm man , but its not even a half decent " stopgap measure to stop all the speculation."

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellspawn (Post 731347)

:OT i had a query.When a manufacturer states that the car has been detuned from 180 to 150bhp(taking an octavia's example),what kind of parameters are changed when detuning?
Also,if we use a chip or a remap to increase the power,wouldnt that be harmful because the manufacturer has actually detuned the car due to India's bad fuel,climate conditions.

good question , needs a good answer and i am not gonna try to answer this one. Leave it for someone who really knows what he is talking about and i dont wanna give probable answers.

I have a question:-
where are you madmonkey : ] are you doing something about this?
[ i aint working {thats the way you do it , i got my money for nothing and my chicks for free} -for now- so i have spare time , pretty sure you must be working , so i sympathize and sorry for pushing ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ananthkamath (Post 731110)

Till that is done someone can look around on VW vortex forums for a dyno test of a stock Volkswagen Gti/Jetta/Audi A4 1.8t sold here in the US. Its the same engine with the same K03 turbocharger. They came with 180 HP stock so I am assuming the remap offered by Pete's atleast partially mirrors that tune.

There is stock 150 rs and a stock 180 rs. In india its the 150. As far as I know 150 remap should give range from 207 to 220 in stage one just by remaping, Of course 180 also gives in the same range after a remap.

stock k03 turbo setup, a k04, gtrs 28 and gtrs 30 can be upgraded in a rs with internal strengtning. power can go upto 450 bhp in the rs with out blowing. For every day car setup use max k04 setup with all the other recommended ad on parts.

This car's issues lie within the tune probably. I have made somewhere over 1000 runs on 100's of VW's and Audi's with this same motor. Most remaps or chips for these cars are horrible. I am not sure who this Pete is, or what his tunes look like, but from the looks of it, it's not very good.

Also, I am not sure what good a dyno graph does without a wideband O2 reading overlapping it? You need to know knock readings(or lack thereof hopefully), air/fuel ratios, and timing maps to know what is happening in the car. Then there are issues like intake air temps, fuel pressure, boost leaks, clogged exhaust systems, boost controller or wastegate not working properly, map sensor malfuntioning or getting a wrong reading(boost leak), clogged intake filters, bad gas, fuel pump dying, bad spark plugs(or gapped wrong, or wrong plugs in general), low compression numbers, etc. There are a million parameters that change how a setup works, but the tune is the most important.

Based on those graphs, there is a good chance this car is knocking and pulling timing continuously. There is also a good chance this car's air/fuel curve is a disaster and the effects you see in the graph is showing the results. It could also be a timing map that makes no sense.

This car needs a real tune and all will be well.

Does KS have a wide band O2 sensor for the dyno? If not, I'd highly recommend making that part of your dyno setup. You and your customers will be happier in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technocrat (Post 745549)

Hi Momin,

Have a look at these link to know more about Pete's

Pete's Performance Products

Thanks,

So these tunes come from the UK?

In any case, I haven't seen many/any really good tunes for these 1.8T's(on a chip or a remap). The best I've seen is APR, and even those are not perfect, but it's as good as it comes so far.

The only real way to get a perfect tune is to have the car tuned by the tuner, on your car, on the dyno, with a wideband O2 and hopefully with data logging capabilities. From what I know, there are now units available for actual real time tuning, but not sure who in India is capable of doing the tuning at this time(maybe you guys know?).

One issue with getting a chip or remap from out of the country is it is very hard to be conservative with the tune, and make safe power at the same time. They have to take into account the gas instability, high intake air temps, dirty air/air filters, etc. It's not an easy task to keep the customers happy(make good power consistently), and not blow motors(or create a quicker then stock death) while doing so.

A lot have been discussed about the remap on skoda rs but what we over look is that the turbo which is being used in the 150hp was designed for better driveability and boosting the smaller turbo will always have its effects. Came across with this article kinda interesting. What it says is incase anyone looking for 200hp+ gains must upgrade their turbo and it makes more sense have a read.

" - The turbocharger used on the 1.8T VW's is the Borg-Warner KKK03. The K03 turbo is a smaller turbo, capable of spooling up much quicker than other traditional turbos. Stock, the engine/turbo combination produces 150hp, with 150ft/lbs of torque that kick in at about 1750 rpms; all at a safe 7psi. The beauty of the engine is that torque stays on all the way through the rpm range, so full torque is available through almost all of the rpm range. This makes the car a joy to drive, with smooth consisitent power always available.

Now add chip tuning to the equation. For about 500 dollars, chip tuners modify your ecu to perform at different levels. In the past, this meant a few percent gain in hp. Boost management is handled by the ECU, so chip tuners are able to generate massive amounts of power by modifying the stock programming. On the stock program, the turbo generates about 5-7 psi. For example, with the GIAC 1.1 bar chip, your car will now make about 15-16 psi of boost pressure. Under loaded conditions, the GIAC can spike at up to 20 psi. What does this all mean? Increasing your power by about 33% with just the chip makes large amounts of HP and torque available immediately. HP is up by about 47 over stock, and torque is increased by up to an amazing 90 ft/lbs!!!! For most drivers is simply the easiest, most effective power upgrade available.

All this power does have it's tradeoffs. The K03 turbo was designed to run reliably at certain boost and temperature levels. By chipping, you are increasing the boost and temperature levels, which may decrease the life of the turbo. By using a simple bolt-on upgrade, such as a KKK04 (K04) turbo, power levels increase to around 230-240 hp, while the temperatures stay about the same. Stay away from full throttle, and temps will be even lower. Of course these levels can only be attained be updating the ecu programming, a feature only available to users of the baseline GIAC chip. For a small fee, you can get the K04 program on a chip, and pop it into the special board that was put on when you got the first GIAC chip. Most K04 kits with GIAC chip and all the extras (like gaskets and new thermostat) are available for under $2,000.

So that's still not enough power, huh? Even more options are available, but you better upgrade some other items before getting up to the next level of power. It would be advisable to get the following before going above 250 hp:

Limited Slip Differential (Peloquin or Quaife)
Upgraded Suspension
Larger Brakes or better pads
Larger/wider tires
Bailey DV
FMIC (Front Mounted Intercooler) or other cooling options

Although these modifications are not required, they are recommended so you can control the new amounts of power your 1.8T engine will put to the ground. Some people even do these mods at the 200 hp level. So what are all these things? We'll add links later so you can click them and get all the tech information.

Garrett turbocharger kits - to be added soon
K16 upgrade info - to be added soon
RS2 turbocharger information - to be added soon

Stage I - Usually chip, exhaust, filter - good for about 200 hp, 240 ft/lbs of torque
Stage II - Add a new K04 turbocharger, good for about 240 hp, 2xx ft/lbs of torque Stage III - Custom turbo kits, capable of producing near or greater than 300 hp. "
Turbo Information for the VW GTI 1.8T Turbo Engine - swankmonkey.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invinsible (Post 757740)

All this power does have it's tradeoffs. The K03 turbo was designed to run reliably at certain boost and temperature levels. By chipping, you are increasing the boost and temperature levels, which may decrease the life of the turbo. By using a simple bolt-on upgrade, such as a KKK04 (K04) turbo, power levels increase to around 230-240 hp, while the temperatures stay about the same. Stay away from full throttle, and temps will be even lower. Of course these levels can only be attained be updating the ecu programming, a feature only available to users of the baseline GIAC chip

Interesting! Now there was a Audi TT with a version of the same engine making 240bhp. Any idea what turbo they were using?