[Samurai]

I can't really keep getting the Jeep to Bangalore, so I will have to find some local resource to work on the Jeep.

If the brake booster can be reused with disc brakes, I think I will start with that.

[jyobeb]

The disc brake conversion is really recommended. The caliper assembly is the same as that of a Sumo, so a set of used ones will be really cheap. Get new knuckle arms and rotors, a competent mechanic, get an inline booster (by elgi) get a GP brake valve, (all of which should cost you about 14K) and have yourself a reliable jeep.
The brakes on the 340 can get really scary in the rains and post rain. I still remember using the brakes once, the jeep swinging wildly to the right and the Zen guy coming towrds me literally getting a heart attack and going off the road to avoid me!!!! Man those brakes stink.
Beboy

[Technocrat]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Samurai, in wet drum brakes are pretty useless. Ask any old Fiat owner, every time you splashed water you had to keep pumping to dry the brakes.
Discs are the way to go.

+1 Have had personal experience in our Premier Padmini.

Samurai, go for the booster kit especially if it allows you to add the discs later on, if not then get the complete setup later when time & money permits.

[ex670c]

Hi Guys,

I think there is no need to upgrade the brakes.

Reason being

1) If you understand a JEEP
a) its not designed to go beyond 50Kmph
b) Does not even handle like the worst car driven
c) Why do you want to go fast.....in a JEEP
d) Why doesn't any one suggest a CAR owner to buy Taller tyres to improve ground clearance.

2) The complication
a) Getting the new knuckles
b) Setting up the booster and new pedals, firewall has to be tinkered.
c) Fine-Tuning the modification
d) New Brake LINES
e) Takes up leg room and space in the Engine Bay.
f) No Engine Power - No Braking. I have towed a drowned M&M Classic 30Kms and the Classic had no Brakes (Booster & Disc were not working as the engine was drowned)

3) Wet Condition --
a) Park the vehicle on a slope and let the water drain
b) drive and pump the brakes to dry up the drum.

I would suggest you go in
1) MM540 Drums
2) Add Booster
3) Upgrade to Disc-Brakes

Personally I think safety is an attitude, If we know our equipment, solves half our problems.

Regards,

Arka

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by ex670c

1) If you understand a JEEP
a) its not designed to go beyond 50Kmph
b) Does not even handle like the worst car driven
c) Why do you want to go fast.....in a JEEP
d) Why doesn't any one suggest a CAR owner to buy Taller tyres to improve ground clearance.

Arka, my main problem is applying brakes when it is standstill on the slightest of incline. I can't simply place my foot on the brake to stop it from rolling, I literally have to press it really hard to stop it from rolling. Will 540 drums help me there or do I need boosters too?

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Samurai

So you all suggest disk brakes with booster? What is the approximate cost of this mod?

I bought the OEM conversion kit for 10K from Mahindra authorized outlet in chennai. It included all the parts, including the Booster, Disc/Rotors, pads, calipers, hanging brake pedal, hose kit, dust shield, front hubs, etc.

The booster is powered buy a small pump attached behind the alternator so you will also need to buy a new/used alternator which adds to the cost. Since I was changing my engine as well, the engine guy threw in the alternator with the pump.

One thing to keep in mind is that when I bought the jeep originally it had very cheap brake pads and the braking was horrible. Before i did the disc brake conversion, I changed the pads to more expensive OEM quality pads and there was a huge difference. Changing pads is cheap so maybe worth a try before you invest a lot of money on the disc brake upgrade.

[Samurai]

I found a workshop about 250 meters from my house who services Force Motors as well as Mahindra. He is not an authorised A.S.S, but had a Judo, couple of Tempo travellers and a Mahindra under repair.

Since today is formals day at work, I was in business casuals (that's formal enough in my company). I got instant reception from the garage owner, who appears to be a decent guy. When I complained about the brakes, first thing he says is do you have another modern car. When I said yes, he said that's why you feel the brakes are hard. After swallowing that rebuke, I asked him to check the drums and brake pads closely. Also, the leaky joint at the radiator hose needs to be re-soldered so that the overflow coolant tank can work.

As I started walking back home, I immediately sensed a change in weather. I guess it is never felt when you are inside the car. I felt it could rain within 20-40 seconds, and I didn't have an umbrella. I ran like hell, within 100 meters I noticed that both laces on my formal shoes had come off. I quickly tied it and again ran. As I was just 50 meters from home, it started raining. Now I sprinted hard, all that hard work on treadmill paying off. I was able to enter the house with limited damage.

Moral of story: Never leave home without Umbrella in coastal monsoon weather, especially if you are walking.

[Samurai]

I was hoping to get the Jeep by evening, but I didn't. The radiator didn't come back from the soldering shop.

BTW, the inner ball bearings were crushed and collar was broken in the left wheel drum. Getting the entire ball bearing set replaced. The right wheel drum needed greesing. Tomorrow they are opening the rear drums.

[iceman91]

Originally Posted by Samurai

BTW, the inner ball bearings were crushed and collar was broken in the left wheel drum. Getting the entire ball bearing set replaced. The right wheel drum needed greesing. Tomorrow they are opening the rear drums.

ouch...that would also make a difference in your braking issue

[RedMM340]

Samurai,

The drum brakes on your current Jeep should work reasonably well if they are in proper repair. Check all brake cylinders, overhaul if necessary, turn all drums on a lathe, replace all brake pads, flush the brake fluid. If you do all this your brakes should work and hold your jeep on any incline, etc. And please do not use junk yard parts if you don't want junk yard performance.

If you do go in for the complete disc brake setup like a Classic, then it should have the proportioning valve as part of the brake system. Typically the valve is a the outlet of the master cylinder. It would definitely be dangerous without this valve, as the rear wheels would lock up prematurely. This happened to me somewhere outside Shimla on a wet road. I hit the brakes coming around a sharp curve and the Jeep spun around about 180 degrees and there was a steep drop on both sides of the road.

Regards,

Gaurav

[RedMM340]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Well, monsoon has finally caught up at my place. Next 4 four months will be very wet, rains here are really heavy. Now I heard drum brakes can lose their effect when they gets wet. Does it happen only if I try to ford rivers (not that I would) or even under severe rains? If it is the latter, I have more reason to worry.

Some more questions:

1) If I have to do this in phases, can I start with brake boosters first? Say only install the vacuum booster to reduce the effort in pressing the current brakes. Can this be reused when I switch to disc brake?

You don't do this. The drums are not designed to be used with a booster.

2) Since this is a diesel Jeep, I will need a vacuum pump. Nitrous has suggested belt driven vacuum pump, is that a Mahindra OEM item I can get on order? What about this belt-less Safari pump suggested by Ignazio?

Alternators with integral vacuum pumps are standard fitment for M&M Jeeps. Same in TATA vehicles.

3) The disc brake kit for CJ3B or CJ340, what does it contain? Does it come with new hanging type pedals, proportioning valve, brake lines, disk brakes, rotors, etc., or I need to buy each item separately? Any trouble mating it with existing vacuum booster?

I found that adding hanging pedals & a booster unit to be too much work and decided against it. So I went with new knuckles, discs, dust shields, brake lines.

4) To add emergency brakes, does the stock rear drum brakes have the necessary mechanism or do I need to replace them?

The E brake on my 340 is on the rear prop shaft. But I have got rid of it, since I just do not use it.

[Samurai]

Thanks Gaurav for the detailed info. I almost missed your answers since they were inside the quotes.

I am going to wait for the results of the brake repair, if I am happy, I may not proceed with any brake mods.

[Samurai]

Today I visited the mechanic. The radiator appears to be soldered well. The front brake drum service is complete.

The left rear drum was open, and guess what? One of the brake drum piston was jammed! That needs to be loosened and serviced, no new parts required, the brake pads were good.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Today I visited the mechanic. The radiator appears to be soldered well. The front brake drum service is complete.

The left rear drum was open, and guess what? One of the brake drum piston was jammed! That needs to be loosened and serviced, no new parts required, the brake pads were good.

When this is set right , I think you will feel a marked improvement in the braking. The stock setup is enough to stop the vehicle on an incline (without having to stand on the brake pedals).

[Sideways]

Samu, I would suggest getting the entire braking system checked in order to resolve all issues. Atleast this way you can assertain the actual braking performance. What ever you decide (in terms of modifying the braking system), keep in mind that any service and maintainance required has to be carried out in workshops in and around your area. The only advice I can give you is - Keep it Simple.