Increase the low end pick up

Torqueguru · 23rd June 2008, 20:45

Hi guys,
I want to know from the gurus, what are the options to increase the low end power of my car. I have noticed that in the CEDIA, the low end pick up was never great..what I mean is its sluggish off the blocks. The engine is nice and responsive yes...but a little bit extra low end power would make me smile a little bit wider

Also please advice me on positioning my Filter intake to a cooler place. Right now as many of our fellow bhpians have told me, its in a pretty hot place.

Increase the low end pick up-dsc01848-copy.jpg

Does anyone know whether its possible to coat the headers with ceramic?
Regards,
TG.

Akshay1234 · 23rd June 2008, 20:49

well you already have a free flow and and air filter. so check out a stand alone ecu. it would definitely improve the power and torque of your car.

dinar · 23rd June 2008, 22:07

with all the stuff like FFE and intake mods, you still want the low end grant than only one way to go... get a stand alone system so you can get a MAP according to your driving style.

RedMM340 · 23rd June 2008, 22:29

First of all your air filter is way too close to the hottest part of the engine, the exhaust manifold. You need to run a pipe from your throttle body to as far to one side and towards the front of the engine bay as is possible. Then add a sheet metal L shaped section to shield your inlet filter from the rest of the engine bay. If possible, run a duct from the side or front to your filter the get cold air.

The way to get better bottom end power is to re-gear to a numerically higher gear ratio. This may not be available for your Mitsubishi, so the other way is run smaller diameter tires in the front. But keep in mind this will also affect your ground clearance, and may reduce top speed, and increase fuel consumption. Good news is that this will also improve braking.

Going back to your stock airbox and restrictive filter may also help with the low end, but my guess is you probably don't want to do that.

iceman91 · 23rd June 2008, 23:05

all the above except the stand alone ecm will help but very little. If you really need to increase low end grunt.. Than as your name says you need more torque.. This can be done by increasing cc or by adding turbo.. Which again has to be tuned to give you the increase torque at the lower band. Are you willin to do this is the question..

Jaggu · 23rd June 2008, 23:18

or change the header spec further south (not recommended), i think routing the air intake to a cooler area will give you slightly better edge. Replacement filter in stock air box will be the best option.

RedMM340 · 23rd June 2008, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman91

all the above except the stand alone ecm will help but very little. If you really need to increase low end grunt.. Than as your name says you need more torque.. This can be done by increasing cc or by adding turbo.. Which again has to be tuned to give you the increase torque at the lower band. Are you willin to do this is the question..

I totally disagree. A new or modified ECM will not help at all. You can be sure that the stock ECM is tuned for max low end torque, since this is how typical cars are normally driven.

A turbo will also not help at all at the low end. Most turbos only get going above 3k rpm. In fact most turbo applications call for reducing the compression ratio which will further reduce low end power.

abhik · 23rd June 2008, 23:27

You have got the headers done custom, hopefully you told the fabricator to design it for low-end grunt. This was the basic for low-end grunt.
And the filter is too close to the engine block and for sure sucking in a lot of hot-air. Try and get an enclosure designed for it.
The best method is to get hold of or make a big air-box that can accomodate the air-filter in it and make a routing from underneath the bumper to the air-box to suck in cold-air. You would definitly feels a difference.

Apart from these ensure the clutch plates are in good condition.

Vid6639 · 23rd June 2008, 23:28

How's the high end acceleration? If there's more high end and less low end it means your headers are setup more for higher rpm's. If it's tuned for low then really you shouldn't have any problem.

Cedia's low end is not great I agree with you. Took me a while to get used to it compared to my 4g15 lancer.

Torqueguru · 23rd June 2008, 23:32

Hi guys,

@akshay1234
@dinar
Point noted.

@RedMM340
@Jaggu
So you recon the stock air box in cedia is way better right. I too think so actually. The typhoon kit piping is not pointing away from the manifold as u can see. But yeah i love the grunting sound it makes and i am not too keen(as you rightly said!) on giving it up, but if its the only way out then i gotta live with it i guess.

Regards,
TG.

Torqueguru · 23rd June 2008, 23:35

@RedMM340

"run smaller diameter tires in the front. But keep in mind this will also affect your ground clearance, and may reduce top speed, and increase fuel consumption. Good news is that this will also improve braking."

I am not too clear of what you say my friend, could you please elaborate?
Regards,
TG.

iceman91 · 23rd June 2008, 23:41

stock ecm's are tuned for maximum efficiency. Not maximum torque. Also please read what i have written. Turbos can be set to spool earlier.

RedMM340 · 23rd June 2008, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqueguru

@RedMM340

"run smaller diameter tires in the front. But keep in mind this will also affect your ground clearance, and may reduce top speed, and increase fuel consumption. Good news is that this will also improve braking."

I am not too clear of what you say my friend, could you please elaborate?
Regards,
TG.

Smaller tires are the same effect of a numerically higher gear ratio. This will increase acceleration from a standing start and while rolling.

The fact that smaller diameter tires will reduce ground clearance is obvious.

Smaller tires will also cause the engine rpm to be higher for a given speed than larger tires. This may increase fuel consumption, but may not depending on how you drive, upshift, and your typical cruising speed. Wont make much difference if your rpm is low in top gear.

Small diameter tires will also improve your braking. Just the opposite is true for larger tires, and I know this for a fact running oversize tires on Jeeps. But keep in mind that the improvement will just one size smaller tires will be small, and you may not realize it unless you know the limitations of your current brakes. This would mean race track driving or rally driving where you push your brakes to the limit of their capabilities.

Torqueguru · 23rd June 2008, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid6639

How's the high end acceleration? If there's more high end and less low end it means your headers are setup more for higher rpm's. If it's tuned for low then really you shouldn't have any problem.

Cedia's low end is not great I agree with you. Took me a while to get used to it compared to my 4g15 lancer.

The acceleration is very good above 4000 rpm. It just takes off. Also their is a phenomenal increase in torque, the car never switches off (which was frequent before my header job was done) at low gears while moving slow. But when i am in first gear to second...i am finding it sluggish. Third onwards no issues. I suspect giving in cooler air is my best bet for now.

Regards,
TG.

Torqueguru · 23rd June 2008, 23:52

@RedMM340
"But keep in mind that the improvement will just one size smaller tires will be small, and you may not realize it unless you know the limitations of your current brakes. This would mean race track driving or rally driving where you push your brakes to the limit of their capabilities."
My tyre config is 205 15 60, according to what you say, what shold be the front and rear tyre configs be?

23rd June 2008, 20:45	#1
Torqueguru BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 277 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	Increase the low end pick up Hi guys, I want to know from the gurus, what are the options to increase the low end power of my car. I have noticed that in the CEDIA, the low end pick up was never great..what I mean is its sluggish off the blocks. The engine is nice and responsive yes...but a little bit extra low end power would make me smile a little bit wider Also please advice me on positioning my Filter intake to a cooler place. Right now as many of our fellow bhpians have told me, its in a pretty hot place. Does anyone know whether its possible to coat the headers with ceramic? Regards, TG. Last edited by Torqueguru : 23rd June 2008 at 20:54.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 20:49	#2
Akshay1234 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 10,265 Thanked: 12,317 Times	well you already have a free flow and and air filter. so check out a stand alone ecu. it would definitely improve the power and torque of your car.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 22:07	#3
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	with all the stuff like FFE and intake mods, you still want the low end grant than only one way to go... get a stand alone system so you can get a MAP according to your driving style.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 22:29	#4
RedMM340 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: on the move Posts: 457 Thanked: 34 Times	First of all your air filter is way too close to the hottest part of the engine, the exhaust manifold. You need to run a pipe from your throttle body to as far to one side and towards the front of the engine bay as is possible. Then add a sheet metal L shaped section to shield your inlet filter from the rest of the engine bay. If possible, run a duct from the side or front to your filter the get cold air. The way to get better bottom end power is to re-gear to a numerically higher gear ratio. This may not be available for your Mitsubishi, so the other way is run smaller diameter tires in the front. But keep in mind this will also affect your ground clearance, and may reduce top speed, and increase fuel consumption. Good news is that this will also improve braking. Going back to your stock airbox and restrictive filter may also help with the low end, but my guess is you probably don't want to do that.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 23:05	#5
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	all the above except the stand alone ecm will help but very little. If you really need to increase low end grunt.. Than as your name says you need more torque.. This can be done by increasing cc or by adding turbo.. Which again has to be tuned to give you the increase torque at the lower band. Are you willin to do this is the question..
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 23:18	#6
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,906 Times	or change the header spec further south (not recommended), i think routing the air intake to a cooler area will give you slightly better edge. Replacement filter in stock air box will be the best option.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 23:27	#8
abhik BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 848 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	You have got the headers done custom, hopefully you told the fabricator to design it for low-end grunt. This was the basic for low-end grunt. And the filter is too close to the engine block and for sure sucking in a lot of hot-air. Try and get an enclosure designed for it. The best method is to get hold of or make a big air-box that can accomodate the air-filter in it and make a routing from underneath the bumper to the air-box to suck in cold-air. You would definitly feels a difference. Apart from these ensure the clutch plates are in good condition.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 23:28	#9
Vid6639 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 17,730 Thanked: 43,473 Times View My Garage	How's the high end acceleration? If there's more high end and less low end it means your headers are setup more for higher rpm's. If it's tuned for low then really you shouldn't have any problem. Cedia's low end is not great I agree with you. Took me a while to get used to it compared to my 4g15 lancer.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 23:32	#10
Torqueguru BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 277 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	Hi guys, @akshay1234 @dinar Point noted. @RedMM340 @Jaggu So you recon the stock air box in cedia is way better right. I too think so actually. The typhoon kit piping is not pointing away from the manifold as u can see. But yeah i love the grunting sound it makes and i am not too keen(as you rightly said!) on giving it up, but if its the only way out then i gotta live with it i guess. Regards, TG.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 23:35	#11
Torqueguru BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 277 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	@RedMM340 "run smaller diameter tires in the front. But keep in mind this will also affect your ground clearance, and may reduce top speed, and increase fuel consumption. Good news is that this will also improve braking." I am not too clear of what you say my friend, could you please elaborate? Regards, TG.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 23:41	#12
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 34 Times View My Garage	stock ecm's are tuned for maximum efficiency. Not maximum torque. Also please read what i have written. Turbos can be set to spool earlier.
	() Thanks

23rd June 2008, 23:52	#15
Torqueguru BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 277 Thanked: 165 Times View My Garage	@RedMM340 "But keep in mind that the improvement will just one size smaller tires will be small, and you may not realize it unless you know the limitations of your current brakes. This would mean race track driving or rally driving where you push your brakes to the limit of their capabilities." My tyre config is 205 15 60, according to what you say, what shold be the front and rear tyre configs be?
	() Thanks