[Ford Rocam]

You can make over 500Whp on a B16A 1.6L with F.I, With H22 i would love to make a high Comp N.A Beast.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

(@ immortalZ)Yes but if you read a guy who has swapped a h22a and b18c5 has commented. There is also a guy working for honda who has commented.

Where is this?

Originally Posted by Ford Rocam

With H22 i would love to make a high Comp N.A Beast.

Next car? Hai rabba!

[abhayshanu]

Yes dude i was thinking the same, i read similar things but not the d16y8, instead the b16b and b18c1. Also earlier i had planned a viva with a turbo going 150-200 whp, it is only after looking at jitu's OHC that i decided that i wanted to get the OHC and make it as powerful as his, then saw ford_rocam's city and wanted 320 whp, then i thought, why should i limit the power, why not go beyond everyones expectations of the city, and then started my project, looking for a great swap, already knew that the bigger the better in terms of engine for a turbo, so went in for the b18c, saw a 702 whp civic with it and wanted my city to have atleast 600 whp, then by a suggestion here of the h22a, i searched for it on the net, found that its price was lesser, it had more bhp (190) and torque (207nm) even though it is not ported and polished unlike the b18c5 which gets its 195 horses after porting and polishing.But didnt know the potential of the h22a, now after reading more and more on many different forums i am coming to understand that to fit the h22a would be a hassle but if done nicely will yield much more results, but as the h series engines are not as popular as the b series ones, aftermarket part availablity is comparativly less. But as many say, Impossible is nothing but I m possible

[abhayshanu]

See this -

Some misinformation going on here, and it seems to me like no person who answered has ever actually done the swap before. I'll try to clear some stuff up for you, since I actually have done the H22A swap before.

1)With both the EG & EK swap, you'll have to cut off the transmission side mount bracket off the frame. You just replace it with the one Hasport gives you (assuming you're going with Hasport mounts). You also need to cut 2 holes in the interior of the car, for the shifter and shifter cables.

2)The H22A does sit lower, and it you lower the car too much, you can definitely scrape it, especially on steep inclined driveways & speed bumps. However, the bigger problem with lowering it too much is the axles. If you lower the car 2" or lower (than stock) you run the risk of snapping axles. I've personally seen this on my friends car.

3)You don't HAVE to get a bigger brake set, but you should definitely upgrade your existing brakes. Brembo blanks & some good pads will be enough, as well as fairly cheap. Stainless steel brake lines would also be a good idea. As for Suspension, it depends on what you go with. Just don't go with any cheap E-bay no name/knock-off stuff. Progress Technology makes springs specifically made for the H-series swap, they aren't too expensive. The "problem" people often refer to with the H/F-series swaps is the understeer. Contrary to when most people say, it has nothing to do with the weight of the engine, it's the way the engine is tilted that is the problem. And honestly, my friend's turbo'd H22A EG (Progress H-series Springs, Energy Suspension bushings kit, & KYB AGX adjustable shocks) has less understeer than my Stock '94 CX EG (no powersteering).

4)The price of the swaps are around the same, unless you get a usdm H22A1 for cheaper. But it should cost anywhere from $4,000-$5,000 for everything you need. This is just a rough estimate, and if you shop around you can do either swap for cheaper. As for which one would be initially better, it'd be a pretty close call. I honestly wouldn't even dare to guess.

5)Both engines, in a way, both have greater potential. The H22A's head come unported & polishes, unlike the B18C5's mild P&P job. The H22A's intake manifold can be modified or replaced for a much better one, the B18C5 already flows very well, especially for a daily driver. On the other hand, there are far more aftermarket parts available for the B-series engines vs the H/F-series. So with the H22A, you're limited to what is available for you.

6)As long as they are taken care of and you do regular maintenance, both engines will last just as long as the other. People claim that the H22A is weaker, but that's just a bunch of bs that has been spread around the internet. the H22A sleeves alone are far stronger than the B-series or D-series.

I'd also recommend looking at this link for more detailed information: Honda-Tech...

And read this comparison between the H22A & ITR engines: Honda-Tech...
2 years ago


and the other guy -

I AM A CERTIFIED TECH AT HONDA
H22
I HAVE DONE THIS SWAP PERSONALLY MANY TIMES (ITS A B**** AND VERY TIME CONSUMING). IF YOU ARE GOOD AT WELDING IT IS A PLUS (MOTOR MOUNTS) YOU DO HAVE TO SHAVE SOME OF THE FRAMEREGARDLESS. IF YOU BUY A BOLT ON MOUNT KIT BE VERY CAUTIOUS OF YOUR RIDE HEIGHT. YOU CAN DESTROY YOUR AXLES AND HEADERS IN A HEARTBEAT. IF YOU GET A CUSTOM WELD ON MOUNT KIT YOU WONT HAVE THAT PROBLEM AS LONG AS YOU POSITION IT RIGHT AND HAVE GOOD CLEARANCE OF YOUR AXLES. AS FAR AS SUSPENSION YOU CAN USE A LOWERING KIT AND BRAKES JUST USE THE H22 BRAKE ASSEMBLY WITH 16" OR 17" WHEELS ON THE FRONT AND KEEP THE REAR THE SAME. THIS WOULD COST YOU ABOUT 3-4 THOUSAND FOR ALL PARTS (ENGINE TRANS ECU AXLES CALIPER ROTOR PADS SHIFT LINKAGE HEADER MOTOR MOUNTS RIMS TIRES)

PERSONALLY I GO WITH A B20 (HONDA CRV) AND DO A VTEC CONVERSION. IT USES A B16 HEAD AND PARTS ARE CHEAP COST IS ABOUT 2600 IF YOU SHOP RIGHT (ENGINE TRANS (LSD) MOTOR MOUNT THROTTLE BODY CABLE AXLE ECU SHIFT LINKAGE HEADER VTEC SOLENOID SPOOL VALVE VTEC OIL PRESSURE SWITCH )

HONDAS ARE RELIABLE ALL AROUND IF YOURE GONNA DRAG IT BETTER HAVE A SECOND CAR READY BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE SAYING "MAKE IT TO BREAK IT"

here is the link again - Which would be better? B18c5 vs h22? - Yahoo! Answers







yes correct, same for the civic, but read the yahoo answers i have posted, the guy mentions to get stiffer suspension and/or mount the engine higher than the stock.

[Akshay1234]

i highly doubt the ohc engine bay will have enough space to fit an h22 with a turbo and all the other paraphernalia.

[ImmortalZ]

You should research whether the H22 would fit into the EF Civic (86-91) cuz that's what the City is based on.

[abhayshanu]

yes i have searched, here are 2 videos -

YouTube - H22A EF Civic BentSprint

YouTube - First burnout on ef after h22 swap

h22 in an ef - HondaCivicForum.com
discussion on h22a on a civic


Explicit Speed Performance - this site is only about ef h22a swap

[doomsday]

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

Yes dude i was thinking the same, i read similar things but not the d16y8, instead the b16b and b18c1. Also earlier i had planned a viva with a turbo going 150-200 whp, it is only after looking at jitu's OHC that i decided that i wanted to get the OHC and make it as powerful as his, then saw ford_rocam's city and wanted 320 whp, then i thought, why should i limit the power, why not go beyond everyones expectations of the city, and then started my project, looking for a great swap, already knew that the bigger the better in terms of engine for a turbo, so went in for the b18c, saw a 702 whp civic with it and wanted my city to have atleast 600 whp, then by a suggestion here of the h22a, i searched for it on the net, found that its price was lesser, it had more bhp (190) and torque (207nm) even though it is not ported and polished unlike the b18c5 which gets its 195 horses after porting and polishing.But didnt know the potential of the h22a, now after reading more and more on many different forums i am coming to understand that to fit the h22a would be a hassle but if done nicely will yield much more results, but as the h series engines are not as popular as the b series ones, aftermarket part availablity is comparativly less. But as many say, Impossible is nothing but I m possible

@abhayshanu- Dude not to discourage you or anything, first do your research and decide what your goals are and what would need to get there. It takes a lot of time, money and patience to achieve goals like this, when u have limited resources at your disposal. Jitu's build has evolved for years- trying different setups, before he got that 320whp dyno chart in his hand.

And yeah, it is still a WIP as you would have seen after joining this forum and an exotica-shaming timeslip is still eluding him, so now you know how difficult it is- making power is one thing, putting it down is quite another. I'm sure Jitu will achieve that early double-digit timeslip very soon- its very hard going to get somewhere there. Jitu's build is even more admirable since he has personally overseen every aspect of the build, from machining to the final tuning.

Before searching Honda-Tech and other forums to decide whether the the B18C5 or H22A1 is a better choice of motor and posting it here, IMO it would be a good idea to brush up on your engine basics which don't appear to be a strong point from your posts. This is a good place to start-

The Car Maintenance Bibles

The www has more info than one can assimilate in a lifetime, however, there is no replacement for experience. Go to tuning shops and see if tuners can allow you to see how an engine is assembled after being rebuilt, how a basic swap (like E-Zen or B-Zen) works, all this will build your basics about performance tuning- an absolute essential before you can think of doing something as difficult as a H22/B16 swap into an OHC.

Just by declaring that it should be a difficult and challenging build and quoting advertisement catchlines will not help until it proves itself out on the drag strip. A 500whp setup is easily doable in the States on C16 (which is what you have been reading) and such, making similar power on pump gas, for the street, is a different ball game altogether.

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

it is only after looking at jitu's OHC that i decided that i wanted to get the OHC and make it as powerful as his, then saw ford_rocam's city and wanted 320 whp

Jitu and Ford_Rocam are the same entity. The other B16 turbo OHC is with Viper.

Sorry for the long post, hoping I didn't sound rude; just wanted to point a noob enthusiast into the right direction so that you don't waste time gathering info that you wouldn't ever need- like thinking about building a turbo Viva (no offence to Hyundai owners, its just not a very practical approach to building a fast car).

[abhayshanu]

Thanks dude, actually everyday i am going to a garage where i get my cars repaired, learning how stuff works, replaced the fan belt of my qualis alone with overseeing today.
A jeep is being rebuilt there, but has come to halt in the last few days, there was also a OHC 1.5 whose engine had to be opened and searched for cracks as the car was overheating very often and after a day of searching a big dent-crack was found on the bottom of the block, most probly due to a big jump and hit there.
Also i meant to say jigi not jitu.
Yes i am a noob enthusiast and dont want to do automobile engineering for a living but as a hobby and passion, hence a project car, to learn as i progress, step by step.
I see a 500 whp city dream to come true only in half a decade (if not more).
Turbo will be last, before that, the engine will be kept n/a and the suspension, brakes, body reinformants, engine internals, nos, and similar will be done. After the car has been setup and running perfectly with all mods except the turbo, will the turbo (sequential,please) come in.
Also about unnesscery information, i love it, i like to gain knowledge, even if i dont use it now, it always comes in handy, like research for the viva turbo resulted in knowing that stock internals cant handle pressure and heat of a turbo, unlike games where you go to a shop, click on turbo, pay a little game cash and your off with your new turbo, always thought that the are all bolt ons.

Going off topic here but, i love the OHC, not for the looks but the performance, where as i still love the viva, if i could get the body of a viva and the performance potential of the OHC, that would be my dream come true.
Also just a question, is it only possible to convert the lancer to a 4 wheel drive? and not any other car in india?

[viper]

Hi,

Would like to contribute to this thread with only 1 piece of advice. Think a thousand times before you decide on the power figures that you want to achieve from xyz engine in a Honda city. If you want to go ahead only then do so in a old gen civic many of which are available in India for prices ranging from 2.5l - 3.5lacs. AT least you will have a better stronger base car to start out with and the engines would be bolt ons with minimal alterations to be made.

If your usage is going to be even 75% as a daily driver then I suggest do not look beyond 200-225hp at a max of 10psi of boost(i.e if you are going FI). You will not even be using say half the power your car delivers at this level and the few occasions that you do you will be abusing your clutch, tyres & suspension.


You are better of having a slightly underpowered car (read as not chasing numbers) and one that you can accelerate safely in without worrying about torque steer. If you want to have a friendly race on the street signal to signal I would be scared to mash the gas at a traffic light unless I am the 1st car there.

I hope you get the gist of what I am trying to say. Not worth having a 400-500 hp car if you are going to use it maybe once or twice a year and drive the rest of the time in a detuned state.

I have been there and done it and have chosen to keep my car at restricted HP levels even though the setup I have is capable of going upto say 300-350 WHP.

This is my personal opinion and advice feel free to follow whatever advice others may have to give you I just look at things from a practical point of view that suits my situation and needs.




Viper

[GTO]

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

I see a 500 whp city dream to come true only in half a decade (if not more).

I hope you realise that a 500 (or even half that) BHP OHC will be simply undriveable. This platform was never made to handle so much power; remember that at the end of the day, it is pretty much a base economy sedan made to a cost for the Asian market.

All of us need to accept that more power doesn't necessarily translate into a better driving experience. What matters is the balance of the end result. You want more power + balance? Go out and pick a used EVO or WRX. If budget is a constraint (but then, you wouldn't be looking at 500 horses), a remapped + modded RS is the way to go.

[abhayshanu]

Originally Posted by viper

Hi,

Would like to contribute to this thread with only 1 piece of advice. Think a thousand times before you decide on the power figures that you want to achieve from xyz engine in a Honda city. If you want to go ahead only then do so in a old gen civic many of which are available in India for prices ranging from 2.5l - 3.5lacs. AT least you will have a better stronger base car to start out with and the engines would be bolt ons with minimal alterations to be made.

Really, are really old gen civics available for 3 lacs? really didnt know.



Viper

Originally Posted by GTO

All of us need to accept that more power doesn't necessarily translate into a better driving experience. What matters is the balance of the end result. You want more power + balance? Go out and pick a used EVO or WRX. If budget is a constraint (but then, you wouldn't be looking at 500 horses), a remapped + modded RS is the way to go.

Yes it doesnt, also evos and wrxs wont fit in a budget of 8 lacs (my initial budget).


@topic -
If i would want to keep this car just a project car, not a daily driven car then? Then can i go in for 500 horses or it is just that the OHC wont handle? Also cant i get suspension upgrades? Also earlier i asked if it is possible to only convert lancer to 4wd or can other cars also be converted?

[Akshay1234]

it is possible to convert a lancer to awd.

[abhayshanu]

Yes i know it is possible to convert lancer to awd, but i was asking if it was possible to convert any other car.

[Ford Rocam]

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

@topic -
If i would want to keep this car just a project car, not a daily driven car then? Then can i go in for 500 horses or it is just that the OHC wont handle? Also cant i get suspension upgrades? Also earlier i asked if it is possible to only convert lancer to 4wd or can other cars also be converted?

nobody has achieved that power level on an OHC & be streetable, so no one will have an correct answer for that but yes 350-400Whp is streetable & very much achievable. The max 450Whp (500+ on Crank) on an OHC on 22psi on 97 Octane fuel is possible on my setup but that kinda boost is for Drag Purpose only.
In city @17 psi on 91 octane fuel with 350Whp on Tap is what i plan to run with new differentials & DMS installed. apart from suspension i will be changing all the stock rubber inserts on lower arm & sway bars with polyurethane one. both front & back.

One needs to understand that the Torque steer problem is not related to OHC Chasis.& you cannot run ordinary suspension setup for this kind of power level & then complain for poor handling, OHC suspension setup was designed uing 100Hp engine & when you double or triple the power the supporting components also need to be upgraded, it require a bit of engineering work & it has to be done in a professional way be it a civic or City, for civic you get parts easily abroad but difficult for OHC.

So 450Whp is very much possible on 97octane tune, anything above that you are crossing the limit of pump gas & the alternate for that is race fuel which is all together a different ball game in tuning scene.