What are the options for civic engine mods??

civ4647 · 12th April 2009, 23:31

hi, i would like to know what all options are available for more performance for a civic. (cost not being a problem).

i currently have a K&N Typhoon intake, Magnaflow catback. Is there anyone who would be able to make a custom Header which would replace the cat and then connect to my catback.

wat kind of gains can i expect from stuff like porting and polishing etc.

and what are the feasible engine swaps and who would be the right person to get an engine and do the swap??

also what are my options for turbocharging the R18?? wat fuel would i have to run?? getting proper fuel is a problem where i am from.

it would be really helpful if you guys let me know of any other modifications which are possible.

thanks

vikram18 · 13th April 2009, 02:30

look up Honda Civic Parts Source

ImmortalZ · 13th April 2009, 08:43

There is a Weapon R header which replaces the cat. The headers for the R18 are a pointless affair because there is only one exhaust port. You just need a downpipe from the head to the catback.

No idea about port/polishing.

I've been researching a lot about engine swaps. Our cars are the FD1 JDM chassis. The FD2 chassis is similar except for : spot welded to reduce flex and a slightly wider front fender, brembo brakes on the Type-R and revised suspension. It comes with two engines better than the the R18 - the K20Z2 which produces 155BHP and the Type R monster, the K20A which makes an astonishing 225BHP. The latter requires 100RON fuel, so it is a no go here. The former will make only about 10BHP more than our R18s when tuned to Indian fuel, which is pretty useless.

Therefore, the only real option is the K24 series. There's quite a few to choose from, the best being the K24A2 from the Acura TSX to the least powerful, the K24A8 from the USDM Accord, which is also released in India. There is also the option of using the 2.4L CR-V engine. There are also frankenstein swaps, which utilize a K24 block with a high flowing K20 head with complete 3 lobed VTEC. The Accord engine for example, is castrated with only the economy VTEC system. However, putting a proper head on the Accord block has its own challenges as the pistons will need changing. But not all K24 blocks have problems with it. Most can accept a proper head simply bolted on. A proper K24 swap will net you more than 250BHP, naturally aspirated, on normal pump fuel available here. You can change the pistons to allow forced induction (lower compression ratio) if you wish and make around 400BHP with the stock internals (no sleeves, no forged pistons/crank etc etc) with 95 AKI petrol. I'm guessing 350 with our fuel. Standard issues with engine swaps apply - if you get a used engine straight from an engine parts shop, it will be cheap, but it will require rebuilding. If you get a crate engine from a tuner shop abroad, it will be expensive.

You'll need a CR-V mount to let the engine sit flush in the engine compartment. You'll need to reroute the A/C lines. You'll need to figure out which gearbox works with your engine. There's quite a few to choose from depending on which block you go with and which year said block is. You'll probably need to change some of the ancillaries like the oil pump. You'll need different belts.

However, with the engine comes a bigger problem. The ECU. You'll need an aftermarket ECU to run frankenstein swaps. The easiest choice is k-PRO, by Hondata. They modify the stock ECU to let you have a fully tunable ECU. However, they do not support 2006+ Civics in any market. The problem is that 2006+ Civics, be it JDM/USDM/EUDM, all have the fancy dash. These dashes use the CAN bus to run the dash instead of plain ole' analog stuff. So everything on the dash is run by the ECU. When you put the nice K24 engine in with the K24 ECU, k-PROed or not, your dash will no longer work. The only choice right now is to run an aftermarket dash like the Pi Xsport.

The other choice is standalone systems like AEM and such. But making them work with the complicated i-VTEC system and the other electronics in the car is complicated to say the least and excruciatingly painful to say a little more. You'll lose airbags, A/C etc etc. Even pros like Bobby Jayaram had enough trouble getting just the FIC to work on their turbo R18 setup.

I know the CAN bus and I've worked with micro controllers in the past using that bus. If I end up doing it, I'll make a board myself that will run the dash with the K24 ECU. Or, if we are lucky, Hondata will come out with a k-PRO which works with 2006+ ECUs. There are some other solutions which make both ECUs work in tandem, with the k-PRO running the engine and the original ECU running the electronics. That is another can of worms though.

In short, you'll need a fantastic engineer who knows his stuff and has a tuning shop with all the bells and whistles, contacts to import the parts (if you are using the Accord engine, you can avoid the hassles of importing the full engine), a tuner who can dance with a k-PRO (you may have to fly him down), lots and lots of money (USD 10K for the hardware, at a minimum), a lot of patience, and a spare car.

Is it worth it? Well, I'd love to have 250BHP in my car.

PM me if you want to know some starting points if you are going for this.

srijit · 13th April 2009, 08:59

Immortalz, that was a pleasure to read

ImmortalZ · 13th April 2009, 09:12

Did you know they are now swapping K24s into Honda Fits? It is otherwise known as the Jazz. A 250BHP Jazz would be quite awesome

Thanks srijit.

narry · 13th April 2009, 09:22

hi
well since honda civic have r18 engine
one smart modification can be to make the engine 2000 cc
since r20 engine also sold in malasiya
for change from 1800cc to 2000c
just needed change pistons of 2000c connection rods
and cranckshaft and timing chain
well this info i get from my hongkong tunner
who has tunned my toyota yaris from 1.6 to
1.8
also with this u keep u original stock ecu
the ecu can adjust so i think would me smart mods
this mods cost me 10,000 rmb in china
approx 75,000 rupees
before i had turbo
but it was bad experince with turbo
regards
narry

ImmortalZ · 13th April 2009, 10:10

The R20A in JDM tune makes 148BHP. The R18A in JDM tune makes 138BHP.

Considering the Indian R18A comes tuned to ~129BHP, 75,000/- for a 10BHP gain is a catastrophic waste of money. You still don't get real VTEC.

Meh, my motto is, go big or go home.

Let's consider we take a 1.8V and do it up the K24 Frank way, with better brakes, suspension, exhaust, intake, tuning, ICE, all inclusive, it's gonna cost you... let's say Accord V6 money when you are done, if we get no deals at all (trust me, you will) and we go to the best place with the best dudes and fly in a tuner. For that, you get a razor sharp car with power which will let you trade blows with Germans twice as expensive. And if you do it right, you are still going to keep the Japanese reliability. And I can park this thing, just about, in my house.

Psycho · 13th April 2009, 11:45

Kind of think you could read up a bit more on Kraftwerks and TSI they have kits for the car.

abhayshanu · 13th April 2009, 12:02

Hey ImmortalZ,i am also looking to swap in the future,for my OHC,I was thinking of not getting the usual D16B,but a B18C,i know its old but i an quite impressed,Here is the information on it from wiki,

B18C (Type R)
VTEC
Found in:
JDM Honda Integra Type R
Power: 205 hp (153 kW) @ 8500 rpm
Rev-limit: 8,900 rpm
VTEC engagement@5,800 rpm
137 ft·lbf (186 N·m) @ 4200 rpm
Transmission Type: 5-speed standard with LSD
Displacement: 1,797 cc (109.7 cu in)
Compression:y 11:0:1
Bore: 81 mm (3.189 in)
Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.433 in)
Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.429 in)
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58
Transmission: J4D (96specR w/ LSD)N3E (98specR w/LSD)

narry · 13th April 2009, 13:24

hi

Well k24 engine is dohc, if you change r18 to dohc you have to modify engine bay change suspension. Also change wiring and ecu completely, how it can be cheaper? i donot understand.
narry

ImmortalZ · 13th April 2009, 13:33

For swaps into the City, I think you're better off asking Ford_Rocam. He has a super fast City on the forum that has more than 350BHP to the wheels. All the people I've contacted for info, it was all about K swaps into Civics. Sorry I can't be of more help.

@Psycho : Checked out Kraftwerks. They do have supercharger kits for the K series. Still is an engine swap away. I've seen the TSI kits before. They seem to have improved the FIC base map too. Hmm... *runs off to check for user reviews*

m4ugr8 · 13th April 2009, 14:02

I am really satisfied with the Way my car is performing after the Remap and K&N Typhoon Kit. A Weapon-R Header and Intake manifold should be enough to full-fill my needs.

Though the options mentioned by ImmortalZ are worth the effort if done right. you would need a really good tuner for that.

TSI has a kit, but i guess they are problems tuning the AEM Fuel controller, I guess you should wait for the HKS Kit, which is expected soon, Or i guess is in testing phases which will come with an RD Standalone.

Psycho · 13th April 2009, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4ugr8

TSI has a kit, but i guess they are problems tuning the AEM Fuel controller,

Based on what I have heard it has problems with altitude correction, and would be critical for a tuner to correct the tune from the base tune for the specific altitude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4ugr8

I guess you should wait for the HKS Kit, which is expected soon, Or i guess is in testing phases which will come with an RD Standalone.

Have heard about it too, the specs sound pretty good for Indian conditions just got to wait and see.

ST7677 · 13th April 2009, 14:47

Engine swap is not really an option, is it???

The car becomes illegal - There is no RTO approval and no insurance cover

There is almost no resale value left in the car

New engines are very expensive, used engines may have been abused – there is no gaurentee

Different engines have different engine mounts and gearbox integration getting them to match is difficult though not impossible

Unless done very well reliability issues may still plague – must go with a previously tried and proven option - not many for R18 swap

In new Civic there are lot of electronic complications with the Engine immobilizer, Drive by wire, ECU, etc like immortalz already mentioned.

Most expensive option

IMO Turbo seems to be a decent option...
The base maps on AEM are stable now (for US version) and it should not be so difficult for a seasoned tuner to tune them...

R18A seems to hold up boost well, I read people are boosting 10-12psi on the TSI kit without any problems, we will see more as time progresses

You can still get decent FE as long as you stay out of boost. Which would not be the case in case you do an engine swap

ST7677 · 13th April 2009, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4ugr8

A Weapon-R Header and Intake manifold should be enough to full-fill my needs.

It will free up some power in higher band but, you would loose lot of low end torque, which will impact your city drivability. I would not recommend it.

I can't find any links or information on HKS turbo kit for R18, can you please share the links?
Is this the Zage kit being talked about? I guess that does not have very good reputation!

12th April 2009, 23:31	#1
civ4647 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Vizag Posts: 93 Thanked: 186 Times View My Garage	What are the options for civic engine mods?? hi, i would like to know what all options are available for more performance for a civic. (cost not being a problem). i currently have a K&N Typhoon intake, Magnaflow catback. Is there anyone who would be able to make a custom Header which would replace the cat and then connect to my catback. wat kind of gains can i expect from stuff like porting and polishing etc. and what are the feasible engine swaps and who would be the right person to get an engine and do the swap?? also what are my options for turbocharging the R18?? wat fuel would i have to run?? getting proper fuel is a problem where i am from. it would be really helpful if you guys let me know of any other modifications which are possible. thanks
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 02:30	#2
vikram18 BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: pune Posts: 607 Thanked: 27 Times View My Garage	look up Honda Civic Parts Source
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 08:43	#3
ImmortalZ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,179 Thanked: 488 Times View My Garage	There is a Weapon R header which replaces the cat. The headers for the R18 are a pointless affair because there is only one exhaust port. You just need a downpipe from the head to the catback. No idea about port/polishing. I've been researching a lot about engine swaps. Our cars are the FD1 JDM chassis. The FD2 chassis is similar except for : spot welded to reduce flex and a slightly wider front fender, brembo brakes on the Type-R and revised suspension. It comes with two engines better than the the R18 - the K20Z2 which produces 155BHP and the Type R monster, the K20A which makes an astonishing 225BHP. The latter requires 100RON fuel, so it is a no go here. The former will make only about 10BHP more than our R18s when tuned to Indian fuel, which is pretty useless. Therefore, the only real option is the K24 series. There's quite a few to choose from, the best being the K24A2 from the Acura TSX to the least powerful, the K24A8 from the USDM Accord, which is also released in India. There is also the option of using the 2.4L CR-V engine. There are also frankenstein swaps, which utilize a K24 block with a high flowing K20 head with complete 3 lobed VTEC. The Accord engine for example, is castrated with only the economy VTEC system. However, putting a proper head on the Accord block has its own challenges as the pistons will need changing. But not all K24 blocks have problems with it. Most can accept a proper head simply bolted on. A proper K24 swap will net you more than 250BHP, naturally aspirated, on normal pump fuel available here. You can change the pistons to allow forced induction (lower compression ratio) if you wish and make around 400BHP with the stock internals (no sleeves, no forged pistons/crank etc etc) with 95 AKI petrol. I'm guessing 350 with our fuel. Standard issues with engine swaps apply - if you get a used engine straight from an engine parts shop, it will be cheap, but it will require rebuilding. If you get a crate engine from a tuner shop abroad, it will be expensive. You'll need a CR-V mount to let the engine sit flush in the engine compartment. You'll need to reroute the A/C lines. You'll need to figure out which gearbox works with your engine. There's quite a few to choose from depending on which block you go with and which year said block is. You'll probably need to change some of the ancillaries like the oil pump. You'll need different belts. However, with the engine comes a bigger problem. The ECU. You'll need an aftermarket ECU to run frankenstein swaps. The easiest choice is k-PRO, by Hondata. They modify the stock ECU to let you have a fully tunable ECU. However, they do not support 2006+ Civics in any market. The problem is that 2006+ Civics, be it JDM/USDM/EUDM, all have the fancy dash. These dashes use the CAN bus to run the dash instead of plain ole' analog stuff. So everything on the dash is run by the ECU. When you put the nice K24 engine in with the K24 ECU, k-PROed or not, your dash will no longer work. The only choice right now is to run an aftermarket dash like the Pi Xsport. The other choice is standalone systems like AEM and such. But making them work with the complicated i-VTEC system and the other electronics in the car is complicated to say the least and excruciatingly painful to say a little more. You'll lose airbags, A/C etc etc. Even pros like Bobby Jayaram had enough trouble getting just the FIC to work on their turbo R18 setup. I know the CAN bus and I've worked with micro controllers in the past using that bus. If I end up doing it, I'll make a board myself that will run the dash with the K24 ECU. Or, if we are lucky, Hondata will come out with a k-PRO which works with 2006+ ECUs. There are some other solutions which make both ECUs work in tandem, with the k-PRO running the engine and the original ECU running the electronics. That is another can of worms though. In short, you'll need a fantastic engineer who knows his stuff and has a tuning shop with all the bells and whistles, contacts to import the parts (if you are using the Accord engine, you can avoid the hassles of importing the full engine), a tuner who can dance with a k-PRO (you may have to fly him down), lots and lots of money (USD 10K for the hardware, at a minimum), a lot of patience, and a spare car. Is it worth it? Well, I'd love to have 250BHP in my car. PM me if you want to know some starting points if you are going for this. Last edited by ImmortalZ : 13th April 2009 at 08:47.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 08:59	#4
srijit BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 598 Thanked: 8 Times	Immortalz, that was a pleasure to read
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 09:12	#5
ImmortalZ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,179 Thanked: 488 Times View My Garage	Did you know they are now swapping K24s into Honda Fits? It is otherwise known as the Jazz. A 250BHP Jazz would be quite awesome Thanks srijit.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 09:22	#6
narry BANNED Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: shenzen Posts: 154 Thanked: 25 Times	some idea for honda engine modification hi well since honda civic have r18 engine one smart modification can be to make the engine 2000 cc since r20 engine also sold in malasiya for change from 1800cc to 2000c just needed change pistons of 2000c connection rods and cranckshaft and timing chain well this info i get from my hongkong tunner who has tunned my toyota yaris from 1.6 to 1.8 also with this u keep u original stock ecu the ecu can adjust so i think would me smart mods this mods cost me 10,000 rmb in china approx 75,000 rupees before i had turbo but it was bad experince with turbo regards narry
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 10:10	#7
ImmortalZ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,179 Thanked: 488 Times View My Garage	The R20A in JDM tune makes 148BHP. The R18A in JDM tune makes 138BHP. Considering the Indian R18A comes tuned to ~129BHP, 75,000/- for a 10BHP gain is a catastrophic waste of money. You still don't get real VTEC. Meh, my motto is, go big or go home. Let's consider we take a 1.8V and do it up the K24 Frank way, with better brakes, suspension, exhaust, intake, tuning, ICE, all inclusive, it's gonna cost you... let's say Accord V6 money when you are done, if we get no deals at all (trust me, you will) and we go to the best place with the best dudes and fly in a tuner. For that, you get a razor sharp car with power which will let you trade blows with Germans twice as expensive. And if you do it right, you are still going to keep the Japanese reliability. And I can park this thing, just about, in my house. Last edited by ImmortalZ : 13th April 2009 at 10:16.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 11:45	#8
Psycho Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,043 Thanked: 110 Times View My Garage	Kind of think you could read up a bit more on Kraftwerks and TSI they have kits for the car.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 12:02	#9
abhayshanu BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 708 Thanked: 324 Times View My Garage	Hey ImmortalZ,i am also looking to swap in the future,for my OHC,I was thinking of not getting the usual D16B,but a B18C,i know its old but i an quite impressed,Here is the information on it from wiki, B18C (Type R) VTEC Found in: JDM Honda Integra Type R Power: 205 hp (153 kW) @ 8500 rpm Rev-limit: 8,900 rpm VTEC engagement@5,800 rpm 137 ft·lbf (186 N·m) @ 4200 rpm Transmission Type: 5-speed standard with LSD Displacement: 1,797 cc (109.7 cu in) Compression:y 11:0:1 Bore: 81 mm (3.189 in) Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.433 in) Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.429 in) Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58 Transmission: J4D (96specR w/ LSD)N3E (98specR w/LSD)
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 13:24	#10
narry BANNED Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: shenzen Posts: 154 Thanked: 25 Times	k24 engine hi Well k24 engine is dohc, if you change r18 to dohc you have to modify engine bay change suspension. Also change wiring and ecu completely, how it can be cheaper? i donot understand. narry Last edited by Jaggu : 13th April 2009 at 15:00. Reason: Please take time to type in full english and with proper punctuations. Thanks
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 13:33	#11
ImmortalZ Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,179 Thanked: 488 Times View My Garage	For swaps into the City, I think you're better off asking Ford_Rocam. He has a super fast City on the forum that has more than 350BHP to the wheels. All the people I've contacted for info, it was all about K swaps into Civics. Sorry I can't be of more help. @Psycho : Checked out Kraftwerks. They do have supercharger kits for the K series. Still is an engine swap away. I've seen the TSI kits before. They seem to have improved the FIC base map too. Hmm... runs off to check for user reviews
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 14:02	#12
m4ugr8 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 1,291 Thanked: 129 Times View My Garage	I am really satisfied with the Way my car is performing after the Remap and K&N Typhoon Kit. A Weapon-R Header and Intake manifold should be enough to full-fill my needs. Though the options mentioned by ImmortalZ are worth the effort if done right. you would need a really good tuner for that. TSI has a kit, but i guess they are problems tuning the AEM Fuel controller, I guess you should wait for the HKS Kit, which is expected soon, Or i guess is in testing phases which will come with an RD Standalone.
	() Thanks

13th April 2009, 14:47	#14
ST7677 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,054 Thanked: 73 Times	Engine swap is not really an option, is it??? The car becomes illegal - There is no RTO approval and no insurance cover There is almost no resale value left in the car New engines are very expensive, used engines may have been abused – there is no gaurentee Different engines have different engine mounts and gearbox integration getting them to match is difficult though not impossible Unless done very well reliability issues may still plague – must go with a previously tried and proven option - not many for R18 swap In new Civic there are lot of electronic complications with the Engine immobilizer, Drive by wire, ECU, etc like immortalz already mentioned. Most expensive option IMO Turbo seems to be a decent option... The base maps on AEM are stable now (for US version) and it should not be so difficult for a seasoned tuner to tune them... R18A seems to hold up boost well, I read people are boosting 10-12psi on the TSI kit without any problems, we will see more as time progresses You can still get decent FE as long as you stay out of boost. Which would not be the case in case you do an engine swap Last edited by ST7677 : 13th April 2009 at 14:48.
	() Thanks