Zen prep for hi-performance street driving

scorpian · 20th July 2009, 20:50

@Dragger,
Well am trying to get the esteem booster to fit in to my zen,but then the zen has its those metal pipes are at a different location as compared to esteem ones.
Secondly in esteem also there are two types i guess type I and type II.
So which one should one buy,also wont the the bigger booster foul the accelerator cable coz the zen booster itself is so damn close.

Help is this will be surely appreciated..as there are many who want to do the swap but cant..

mclaren1885 · 21st July 2009, 05:46

Type II conversion is what you have to go in for.

dragger · 22nd July 2009, 03:39

mclaren has said it all in such few words

,also when you have a bigger brake booster and an esteem intake manifold,at high rpm pulls they are nasty known for breaking the throttle position sensor,so my advice is if your going to do some hardcore street driving get an extra custom mount,basically on the gear box a get the esteem gear box front mount bracket and weld a mounting position on the body after fitting the bracket on the gear box so you get exact placement,this will help a lot in the movement of your engine during hard acceleration and deacceleration,hope this helps,cheers,happy revving..!

scorpian · 7th August 2009, 10:21

Hello everybody!

Sorry for going out of communication mode,the net connection broke down...

Neways so all the time i got in this past few days i spoke no many tuners and it seems like my dreams of running a 1.3E motor seems to have crashed badly...

Reason??Like i said cost factor,with my budget being limited to 50k
(yup thats stretched,n cant strecth no more).
Most of the tuners i spoke to said the swap would cost 80/90k,a breakup is something like this.
Esteem engine......30/35k.
All of them said to overhaul before installation.total overhaul...20k
installation,new headers,intake another 30k,this includes if everything goes well slight tweak to the suspension.

sothisis what i wa given the figure,but i guess when u actually start with sumthing like this,minor things will add up to the cost and i would say a round about figure of 1lakh for a good job.

so am basically back to square one....work on the 1litre motor,i have too coz of monetary issues..
so i have decided to get a good exhaust job(recommendations pls)
intake,
plonk the 1.3litre cam.
and last get the ecm from RD...

so i guess that wud be around a total of 40/45k..

if you guys can think of something more wilder i would be glad to hear fro you ..

regards.

mclaren1885 · 7th August 2009, 12:38

Just put in a stock 1.3 engine in for the moment. Upgrade the brakes if you can and have fun. Headers, intake, exhaust mods all can be done slowly. To me it doesn't make sense to spend 50k on a 1ltr engine. If you get the 1.3 now, you will have better chances of upgrading in future.

Trust_In_Thrust · 7th August 2009, 22:15

I have tried searching a lot on the forum but i am unable to find any clear replies regarding Zen to EZen conversion.Please clarify.
I have a Zen 2003 Lxi 16 Bit ECU with 17000kms on odo.
1.) What all is required to convert it to 1.3L mill excluding gearbox ?
a.) Will just the head work fine alone (on current zen block) or will i have to get a new block with an Esteem head including new pistons (Are esteem's larger than zen's)?
b.) Will i have to change sensors ?
c.) Will i have to change ECU ? If yes will 32 Bit also work fine ( I heard that connections are same.)
d.) Anything else important.

2.) I find the brakes of Zen pathetic . I am comparing it to my M800 booster assisted brakes with Rane brake pads.
a.) Can i just change the booster to Esteem type? I have heard that esteem one is bigger and uses different mounts on firewall.
b.) Will changing the discs not involve changing the knuckle , hub , calliper ?

Please i look forward to replies from people who have already done it .
Also if any problems faced / points to be noted .

Trust_In_Thrust · 9th August 2009, 03:21

Any help / replies would be appreciated .

scorpian · 9th August 2009, 12:23

finally plans seem to fall in place with a slight hurdle...

theres a ezen engine for sale on the forum,reworked with exhaust and all,but one major hurdle its converted to carb....

I want an all out mpfi setup,so tht later i can add a standalone(thts later)

How much would it cost to get a harness,sensors,throttle body and ecm all second hand??

Can a carb car be reconverted to mpfi?

really looking forward to replies

bugatti_86 · 10th August 2009, 01:08

swap your car instead & get Esteem car,perhaps cheap & the best option,plz dont tweak ur baby,live with it..

zeeshan suleman · 21st August 2009, 02:02

Guys, after thinking a lot about selling the engine i have finally made up my mind on keeping the engine, so i wanted more power of the car, i was currently using a carb on a 16v engine with esteem gearbox, i knew the car wasnt running as it should coz i wasnt using mpfi, so 1st thing i did was went to maruti suzuki sai service parts division and got my self oversized pistons, rings ,engine gasket set etc,all parts required for an overhaul. Now i am thinking of two options:

1. getting a twin carb setup as currently using esteem carb which was 8v so i know my carb is using only 8v and not being fully utilised, ( i am honestly very scared to convert carb car to mpfi as i am unsure about reliability ) dont want to end up stranded in the middle of the night with a failed ecm, so i have given the block to be re bored oversized to .20 now i am confused as to wat to do? should i go infor twin carb setup i.e by making a custom intake manifold intake or should

2. go mpfi by adding used used ecm, wiring injectors etc, cost of goin to mpfi is about 16k only for parts ( with new wiring rest all old ) and twin carb is also about 10 + k as the manifold which'll need to be custom designed will cost 7-8k BUT there might be an issue of both the carbs touching eah other, plues ill need another filter for the other carb,

i am confused wat to do, my block will be back in 2 days after being re bored and then i need to take a call, cant keep the car in the garage forever, please help,

Any ideas on Webber cars and pricing ?

Also getting a front strut bar installed.

3. and also need help on brakes, will esteem type 2 brakes fit directly as a bolty on? also i had read somewhere on t-bhp about aftermarket brakepads by some company which had the word "green" in it, can someone throw some light on it ?

4. also how does an aluminium flywheel help ? i am getting a used aliminium flywheel for 7 or 9 k ? is it worth it ? its lifted of a zen that had a twin cam engine.

if i have to convert to mpfi and buy new parts here is a list of prices i got from sai service:

Fuel injectors: 1625 *4

Ecm euro 2: 21000

wiring :8500

manifold :17400

throttle body: 7500

same parts you can get in the used market for about 15-17k, but again thats used and this is new, please suggest guys, i need the car to be a fast street car not a race car.

regards
Zeeshan

v1p3r · 21st August 2009, 02:09

Buy a used MPFI Esteem engine. 25k max.

zeeshan suleman · 21st August 2009, 02:25

I already have a mpfi engine 16v( but using a carb), 07 model in my car which i am currently overhauling and oversizing the pistons, but i am scared to use the mpfi setup for lack of reliability, my zen was originally a carb zen 99 model. besides as far as i know we dont get the complete engine with wiring for 25, it comes at atleast 40k upwards, had gone to a known vendors shop who sells engines in chor bazaar, he was quoting 40 k for used esteem engine with wiring etc and 65k for baleno with g/box & wiring etc.

karizma_devil · 21st August 2009, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by scorpian

finally plans seem to fall in place with a slight hurdle...

theres a ezen engine for sale on the forum,reworked with exhaust and all,but one major hurdle its converted to carb....

I want an all out mpfi setup,so tht later i can add a standalone(thts later)

How much would it cost to get a harness,sensors,throttle body and ecm all second hand??

Can a carb car be reconverted to mpfi?

really looking forward to replies

I had been through somewhat same situation few months back.
I had been to CST road , Kurla scouted the complete junk yard for 1.3 engines .. but i understood if i put in a 1.3 in zen i wnt have insurance.. lot more issues came up ...end of the day i went in for Fioat palio s10 ( 1600 cc, 100 horses, absolute blast )

Just look at it from this point of view , your zen is 1 - 1.2 lacs worth + 50 k .. that make to about 1.75 lacs !!

Get a good Palio 1.6 GTX / s10 for about 1.2-4 lacs .. put in another 50k in it and you have a beast !!

I huess i felt its not worth all the hassle involved ina e-zen !

mclaren1885 · 21st August 2009, 11:04

This is the first time I am hearing that a carb engine is more reliable than an mpfi one. Zeeshan, whoever is feeding you such news is absolutely taking you for a ride. Just get a mpfi baleno/esteem engine like Akshay said. You will have lot less headaches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karizma devil

I huess i felt its not worth all the hassle involved ina e-zen

Not if done right. E-zen, B-zen, Zonda's are the best bang for the buck for a fast car. No S10, GTX, OHC Vtec, Baleno, Esteem can come close to a bigger engine in a zen (in terms of acceleration). Those who think it isn't worth just haven't driven a fast zen. Thats all.

techn0l0gist · 21st August 2009, 11:35

mclaren, it is very difficult to find people who can convert a carb engine to mpfi and reliably , if you have access to unlimited budgets and the best of mechanics who know all their stuff, well its easy and as good as stock - or else you end up with a car that spends more time in the garage than on the road.

20th July 2009, 20:50	#31
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 824 Thanked: 1,186 Times View My Garage	@Dragger, Well am trying to get the esteem booster to fit in to my zen,but then the zen has its those metal pipes are at a different location as compared to esteem ones. Secondly in esteem also there are two types i guess type I and type II. So which one should one buy,also wont the the bigger booster foul the accelerator cable coz the zen booster itself is so damn close. Help is this will be surely appreciated..as there are many who want to do the swap but cant..
	() Thanks

21st July 2009, 05:46	#32
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	Type II conversion is what you have to go in for.
	() Thanks

22nd July 2009, 03:39	#33
dragger BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: India-Mumbai-Colaba Posts: 350 Thanked: 6 Times	mclaren has said it all in such few words ,also when you have a bigger brake booster and an esteem intake manifold,at high rpm pulls they are nasty known for breaking the throttle position sensor,so my advice is if your going to do some hardcore street driving get an extra custom mount,basically on the gear box a get the esteem gear box front mount bracket and weld a mounting position on the body after fitting the bracket on the gear box so you get exact placement,this will help a lot in the movement of your engine during hard acceleration and deacceleration,hope this helps,cheers,happy revving..!
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 10:21	#34
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 824 Thanked: 1,186 Times View My Garage	Hello everybody! Sorry for going out of communication mode,the net connection broke down... Neways so all the time i got in this past few days i spoke no many tuners and it seems like my dreams of running a 1.3E motor seems to have crashed badly... Reason??Like i said cost factor,with my budget being limited to 50k (yup thats stretched,n cant strecth no more). Most of the tuners i spoke to said the swap would cost 80/90k,a breakup is something like this. Esteem engine......30/35k. All of them said to overhaul before installation.total overhaul...20k installation,new headers,intake another 30k,this includes if everything goes well slight tweak to the suspension. sothisis what i wa given the figure,but i guess when u actually start with sumthing like this,minor things will add up to the cost and i would say a round about figure of 1lakh for a good job. so am basically back to square one....work on the 1litre motor,i have too coz of monetary issues.. so i have decided to get a good exhaust job(recommendations pls) intake, plonk the 1.3litre cam. and last get the ecm from RD... so i guess that wud be around a total of 40/45k.. if you guys can think of something more wilder i would be glad to hear fro you .. regards.
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 12:38	#35
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	Just put in a stock 1.3 engine in for the moment. Upgrade the brakes if you can and have fun. Headers, intake, exhaust mods all can be done slowly. To me it doesn't make sense to spend 50k on a 1ltr engine. If you get the 1.3 now, you will have better chances of upgrading in future.
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 22:15	#36
Trust_In_Thrust BANNED Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 768 Thanked: 349 Times	I have tried searching a lot on the forum but i am unable to find any clear replies regarding Zen to EZen conversion.Please clarify. I have a Zen 2003 Lxi 16 Bit ECU with 17000kms on odo. 1.) What all is required to convert it to 1.3L mill excluding gearbox ? a.) Will just the head work fine alone (on current zen block) or will i have to get a new block with an Esteem head including new pistons (Are esteem's larger than zen's)? b.) Will i have to change sensors ? c.) Will i have to change ECU ? If yes will 32 Bit also work fine ( I heard that connections are same.) d.) Anything else important. 2.) I find the brakes of Zen pathetic . I am comparing it to my M800 booster assisted brakes with Rane brake pads. a.) Can i just change the booster to Esteem type? I have heard that esteem one is bigger and uses different mounts on firewall. b.) Will changing the discs not involve changing the knuckle , hub , calliper ? Please i look forward to replies from people who have already done it . Also if any problems faced / points to be noted . Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 7th August 2009 at 22:18.
	() Thanks

9th August 2009, 03:21	#37
Trust_In_Thrust BANNED Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Delhi Posts: 768 Thanked: 349 Times	Any help / replies would be appreciated .
	() Thanks

9th August 2009, 12:23	#38
scorpian BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: GOA Posts: 824 Thanked: 1,186 Times View My Garage	finally plans seem to fall in place with a slight hurdle... theres a ezen engine for sale on the forum,reworked with exhaust and all,but one major hurdle its converted to carb.... I want an all out mpfi setup,so tht later i can add a standalone(thts later) How much would it cost to get a harness,sensors,throttle body and ecm all second hand?? Can a carb car be reconverted to mpfi? really looking forward to replies
	() Thanks

10th August 2009, 01:08	#39
bugatti_86 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mumbai/KSA Posts: 162 Thanked: 27 Times	swap your car instead & get Esteem car,perhaps cheap & the best option,plz dont tweak ur baby,live with it..
	() Thanks

21st August 2009, 02:02	#40
zeeshan suleman BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 172 Thanked: 2 Times View My Garage	Help needed on my e- zen engine Guys, after thinking a lot about selling the engine i have finally made up my mind on keeping the engine, so i wanted more power of the car, i was currently using a carb on a 16v engine with esteem gearbox, i knew the car wasnt running as it should coz i wasnt using mpfi, so 1st thing i did was went to maruti suzuki sai service parts division and got my self oversized pistons, rings ,engine gasket set etc,all parts required for an overhaul. Now i am thinking of two options: 1. getting a twin carb setup as currently using esteem carb which was 8v so i know my carb is using only 8v and not being fully utilised, ( i am honestly very scared to convert carb car to mpfi as i am unsure about reliability ) dont want to end up stranded in the middle of the night with a failed ecm, so i have given the block to be re bored oversized to .20 now i am confused as to wat to do? should i go infor twin carb setup i.e by making a custom intake manifold intake or should 2. go mpfi by adding used used ecm, wiring injectors etc, cost of goin to mpfi is about 16k only for parts ( with new wiring rest all old ) and twin carb is also about 10 + k as the manifold which'll need to be custom designed will cost 7-8k BUT there might be an issue of both the carbs touching eah other, plues ill need another filter for the other carb, i am confused wat to do, my block will be back in 2 days after being re bored and then i need to take a call, cant keep the car in the garage forever, please help, Any ideas on Webber cars and pricing ? Also getting a front strut bar installed. 3. and also need help on brakes, will esteem type 2 brakes fit directly as a bolty on? also i had read somewhere on t-bhp about aftermarket brakepads by some company which had the word "green" in it, can someone throw some light on it ? 4. also how does an aluminium flywheel help ? i am getting a used aliminium flywheel for 7 or 9 k ? is it worth it ? its lifted of a zen that had a twin cam engine. if i have to convert to mpfi and buy new parts here is a list of prices i got from sai service: Fuel injectors: 1625 *4 Ecm euro 2: 21000 wiring :8500 manifold :17400 throttle body: 7500 same parts you can get in the used market for about 15-17k, but again thats used and this is new, please suggest guys, i need the car to be a fast street car not a race car. regards Zeeshan
	() Thanks

21st August 2009, 02:09	#41
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	Buy a used MPFI Esteem engine. 25k max.
	() Thanks

21st August 2009, 02:25	#42
zeeshan suleman BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: mumbai Posts: 172 Thanked: 2 Times View My Garage	I already have a mpfi engine 16v( but using a carb), 07 model in my car which i am currently overhauling and oversizing the pistons, but i am scared to use the mpfi setup for lack of reliability, my zen was originally a carb zen 99 model. besides as far as i know we dont get the complete engine with wiring for 25, it comes at atleast 40k upwards, had gone to a known vendors shop who sells engines in chor bazaar, he was quoting 40 k for used esteem engine with wiring etc and 65k for baleno with g/box & wiring etc. Last edited by zeeshan suleman : 21st August 2009 at 02:26. Reason: spelling mistake
	() Thanks

21st August 2009, 11:35	#45
techn0l0gist BHPian Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Goa Posts: 364 Thanked: 89 Times	mclaren, it is very difficult to find people who can convert a carb engine to mpfi and reliably , if you have access to unlimited budgets and the best of mechanics who know all their stuff, well its easy and as good as stock - or else you end up with a car that spends more time in the garage than on the road.
	() Thanks