[StarVegabond]

Hi Friends

Last about an year, i am a member of this forum, i have seen several people buying new cars. I have read several TD reports, ownership
reports.

I notice several members recommending upgrades or modifications and several owners really upgrading or modifying most of the time against warrantee clauses.

some of the upgrades i have seen which i think enhance value is

1. Upgrading to a better ICE than the OEM provided one.
2. Upgrading the seat covers
3. Upgrading from Tubed tyres to Tubeless Tyres
4. Adding SUNFILMs
5. Adding Reverse parking sensors
6. adding aftermarket security system or stereo system.

In my understanding, some of the upgrades enhance performance technically or image visually. But does not deliver value on both fronts.

1. Changing from Stock wheels to Alloy wheels
2. Changing to a more wider (for mroe road grip) and thicker (for increasing GC) tyres
3. Rear Spoilers
4. Teflon coating
5. Anti Rust Coating
6. Changing the Light bulbs
7. Adding Pete's box or equivalent
8. etc, etc

For a "Technically Challenged" person like me, the questions are as below

1. Does these second set of "upgrades or MODs" really add value to the car and the owner.

2. If they really add value and are needed, then why the car company which designed the car did not have these in first place. In my understanding every car OEM want to sell more cars in India and want to make their products more and more relevent to the market and buyers (ofcourse maximixing their margins)

3. I agree that the car must look different and unique, our passion for our car often makes us take decision by heart than the mind. Is it really wise on a owner's part to upgrade and make the warrantee NULL and VOID.

4. Some times these MODs go wrong, then fighting with the dealer/car company or the upgrade provider to set things right. in turn introducing more niggles or issues with the vehicle. Is it really important to have these MODs compared to a trouble free car for next 4/5 years.

5. If we understand that the car is optimally tuned to meet the performance, value and cost (& margins), then why dont we just agree to the CAR OEM's judgement.

There might be answers to these questions in various threads, but for a novice like me (including new members) it would be better if such insights are at one place. Hence i thought of starting this thread

Request you to provide your Insights. I humbly request that while sharing your gyan, please do not turn this thread into a particular Brand bashing or a fight between one brand or the other.

Dear MODS, if such a thread already exists, please merge it.

thanks,

[AbhiJ]

My opinion in Bold.

1. Changing from Stock wheels to Alloy wheels

I personally cannot stand the looks of steel wheels. To me, the alloys really add a LOT of visual enhancement to a car

2. Changing to a more wider (for mroe road grip) and thicker (for increasing GC) tyres

Car makers save money on tyres here in India. They undertyre the cars to save money/boast of improved fuel economy.

3. Rear Spoilers

They add no performance. Looks are subjective.

4. Teflon coating

Not required on a new car.

5. Anti Rust Coating

Not required, but people in coastal areas end up getting it done for safety.

6. Changing the Light bulbs

Better light at night = safer car

7. Adding Pete's box or equivalent

Again, subjective. Fast drivers require fast cars. And tuning boxes are a great reversible way to add some quick oomph.

8. etc, etc

etc, etc.

[raj_5004]

my reply in BOLD:

Originally Posted by StarVegabond

For a "Technically Challenged" person like me, the questions are as below

1. Does these second set of "upgrades or MODs" really add value to the car and the owner.

No, it does not really add any value. but some are really passionate about their cars & so it does not bother them.

2. If they really add value and are needed, then why the car company which designed the car did not have these in first place. In my understanding every car OEM want to sell more cars in India and want to make their products more and more relevent to the market and buyers (ofcourse maximixing their margins)

thats is just not possible keeping costs in check. in today's market, with fierce competition, every manufacturer needs to provide the best value for money. the race is on to give more at lesser price. so such goodies are omitted in interests of lower purchase price of the car. also, wider tyres will decrease FE which is a bad point in the indian market.

3. I agree that the car must look different and unique, our passion for our car often makes us take decision by heart than the mind. Is it really wise on a owner's part to upgrade and make the warrantee NULL and VOID.

depends on the owner. very rarely will something go wrong if the install of any aftermarket accessory is done properly. but eventually, its the owner's wish. he wants his car to look unique or he wants utmost reliability.

4. Some times these MODs go wrong, then fighting with the dealer/car company or the upgrade provider to set things right. in turn introducing more niggles or issues with the vehicle. Is it really important to have these MODs compared to a trouble free car for next 4/5 years.

not at all. but as i said, if fitments are done properly, very rarely things go wrong. and when you go for these aftermarket fitments, for example alloys, you alter the looks of the car according to YOUR liking, which in turn makes you more "proud" of your vehicle.

5. If we understand that the car is optimally tuned to meet the performance, value and cost (& margins), then why dont we just agree to the CAR OEM's judgement.

a car is tuned for performance as well as efficiency by the manufacturer. some owners dont care a damn about FE, so they go for aftermarket performance products. talking about tyres, OEM tyres may be the best fit according to the manufacturer keeping costs in check & also offering good ride quality. but the owner may need better handling & may be willing to sacrifice the ride quality.

that said, i am very much inclined towards aftermarket fitments. but in my car, i limit that to some cosmetic fitments only. i do not touch the drivetrain, suspension & similar vital components. in other words, i do not opt for pete's box or performance upgrades. reason? reliabilty. at the same time, i find it very boring to keep my car stock. its like having a car which looks like every other car on the road... nah!

[rageshgr]

Most of the questions are already answered in detail. Some points I would like to add.

1. Changing from Stock wheels to Alloy wheels
Looks! Again subjective. I think alloys look gorgeous! You wear an Armani suit and top ( bottom ) it off with a Hawai Sandal. LOL! That's how some cars look in tbeir stock steel wheels. In my case my steel wheels bent a lot on hitting potholes. So I changed to alloys ( one of the reasons ) so that it does n't go out of shape. I know alloys can crack on impact but it would need a very hard impact indeed.

2. Changing to a more wider (for mroe road grip) and thicker (for increasing GC) tyres.
Well you have the answer in your question. For better stability and grip esp while braking. Although the distribution of pressure might make the contact area more or less the same between a stock tyre and a wider tyre, the contact shape, profile changes and can affect your stability.

3. Rear Spoilers
Purely looks. ( Unless you travel faster than 180 kph )

4. Teflon coating
Looks and may be better paint protection / life

5. Anti Rust Coating
Anti Rust coating on the underbody helps in coastal places like mine.

6. Changing the Light bulbs
Some lights like the one in BMWs are brighter helping you see the road better at the same time causing less glare to the oncoming traffic. WIN-WIN

7. Adding Pete's box or equivalent
Performance. You might have X amount as budget at the time you buy the car, OR you think the power is enough. Later, you feel you need more power , or you can afford it, you go and install a pete's box giving you more power and performance.

The maufacturers consider the market as a whole and decides on the parameters that the majority of the market prefers. But individual tastes vary.

[StarVegabond]

Thanks guys for your response, but only one out of 3 address my questions.
i am not discussing the benefits fo each upgrade/modification,

but the 5 questions below : Raj got my questions right.
hope other Guru's and owners who have gone for these MODs share their views

[amitk26]

It all depends on what you consider as value and how much confidence you have on the mod, the modifier and your own risk taking ability.

To an average joe who does not understand the modification being done I would advice not to modify based on some Guru's advice until he/she himself understand what it takes for the said mod and it's pro and cons.
There can be views for and against each mod in both sets .


some illustrations from the examples you gave to make point clear.

Originally Posted by StarVegabond

some of the upgrades i have seen which i think enhance value is

1. Upgrading to a better ICE than the OEM provided one.

Depends on what is better to most people the stock ICE may be good enough and they do not see great deal of difference in sound. Is it worth spending insane amount of money on amps , Components and subwoofer if all you listen to is FM radio at low volume.

Additional factors to consider are risking fire hazard for badly fitted ICE with improper power cables and with out fuse ? Warrenty may void if wireharness is not used and wires are snipped.

Originally Posted by StarVegabond

2. Upgrading the seat covers

This looks harmless mod but again person need to understand the need and material , Art leather and leather is not good idea in north India in summers untill you have powerful AC.

For the second set.

Originally Posted by StarVegabond

1. Changing from Stock wheels to Alloy wheels
2. Changing to a more wider (for mroe road grip) and thicker (for increasing GC) tyres

Alloy wheels reduce the weight but the alloy should have same PCD , Rim width and offset as in OEM steel else it will be counter productive. Mostly alloys are installed for looks overlooking these critical design factors.

Similarly people belive companies undertyre to reduce costs but it may not be entirerly true. Wider tyres mean more grip but is it really useful , I have my doubts , Upgrading SUV tyre from 235 to 255 add exactly 2 CM of rubber surface how much of grip it can add to a 2 tonn mammoth ? What about the load on power steering setup and reduced reliability and life of PS ?

Originally Posted by StarVegabond

2. If they really add value and are needed, then why the car company which designed the car did not have these in first place. In my understanding every car OEM want to sell more cars in India and want to make their products more and more relevent to the market and buyers (ofcourse maximixing their margins)

Value engineering is the key term every ruppe saved add value to the bottomline and help reduce costs.

[FastLove]

I would say that "Boys will be Boys" and We will always Play with these Toys !

These Mod Jobs are just Human Nature. We always strive to achieve More . Note that we would not know what more we can achieve out of what we have until we actually do it.

For example , i read a thread today where the members are discussing whether Nitrogen should be filled in the Tyres. Now if Nitrogen is Good (for whatever reasons), why aren't the manufacturers giving us Tyres filled with Nitrogen . The answer is - Nitrogen is not available everywhere easily. Standard practice and easy availability is considered when the Manufacturer fills the air in the Tyres. It is upto us to choose to take advantage of Nitrogens properties if and when we choose to fill nitrogen.


So, similarly , what we get when we buy a brand new car is "Standard" and "Must have" stuff with Flexibility thrown in our hand to add some "Good to have" stuff. In above example Nitrogen is not a must have but a Good to have option.

If i have been able to make my point. Fine ! if not we will do another round of this

[anurag_p80]

My answers in bold below.....

1. Does these second set of "upgrades or MODs" really add value to the car and the owner.

Not necessarily. 3, 4, 5 and 6 are not even Mods IMO. Look at it this way- buying a car always means you compromise on some of your priorities. You get a cool looker but bad FE (so add CNG kit), get a stonker of an engine but want more power out of it (Pete's), get a super comfort suspension but noisy tyres (change to Michelins) and so on. So these little changes are attempts to get closer to what would be an ideal car. Sort of like tuning your TV to get the best possible picture. If an OEM was giving all these in budget, no changes would be required. That is generally not feasible though.
2. If they really add value and are needed, then why the car company which designed the car did not have these in first place. In my understanding every car OEM want to sell more cars in India and want to make their products more and more relevent to the market and buyers (ofcourse maximixing their margins). Car makers also have a compromise to make. They have to maximise volumes and maintain decent margins. So cut costs, and make mass-appeal cars. Standard practice and nothing wrong with that.

3. I agree that the car must look different and unique, our passion for our car often makes us take decision by heart than the mind. Is it really wise on a owner's part to upgrade and make the warrantee NULL and VOID.

Warranty is not null and void if one adds a spoiler, or changes tyres, or gets a Teflon Coat. But yeah, that is a point one should consider. Also consider that early years are the best years for the car. You will get maximum value out of the mods early on.

4. Some times these MODs go wrong, then fighting with the dealer/car company or the upgrade provider to set things right. in turn introducing more niggles or issues with the vehicle. Is it really important to have these MODs compared to a trouble free car for next 4/5 years.

The trouble free car would be more important in most cases. That is why, plan out the mods properly and have a trusted guy do it, thus minimising the risk. It is not possible to entirely eliminate it unfortunately.

5. If we understand that the car is optimally tuned to meet the performance, value and cost (& margins), then why dont we just agree to the CAR OEM's judgement.

We do, for most part. For the rest, there is the aftermarket

[VJ_MAVRICK]

Originally Posted by FastLove

For example , i read a thread today where the members are discussing whether Nitrogen should be filled in the Tyres. Now if Nitrogen is Good (for whatever reasons), why aren't the manufacturers giving us Tyres filled with Nitrogen . The answer is - Nitrogen is not available everywhere easily. Standard practice and easy availability is considered when the Manufacturer fills the air in the Tyres. It is upto us to choose to take advantage of Nitrogens properties if and when we choose to fill nitrogen.


So, similarly , what we get when we buy a brand new car is "Standard" and "Must have" stuff with Flexibility thrown in our hand to add some "Good to have" stuff. In above example Nitrogen is not a must have but a Good to have option.

If i have been able to make my point. Fine ! if not we will do another round of this

Filling Dry Nitrogen improves the life of the tyre and that is the reason it is preferred against regular air fills which contains Oxygen,Carbon Dioxide etc leading to oxidation inside the tyre which is undesirable.

1.Dry Nitrogen improves tyre life as there is less or no moisture @ all in your tyres and hence less corrosion on the wheels.

2.Dry Nitrogen tyre pressures are more stable for a long term (I had been filling since over a year and can vouch for that.)

Regarding the original topic of the thread itself as many members pointed out the obvious for getting the mods done on a specific ride, I say that it is like "To each its own" thingy and the world of mods(FFE,Pete's Box etc) is a never ending story and its hard to get over such an addiction .

[razor4077]

My 2 cents on this...

- Cosmetic mods like spoilers, decals etc are as per the taste of the owner, and would very rarely violate any warranty clauses. Neither do sunfilms (exception: rear defogger being damaged while fitting this), teflon coatings, anti-rust coatings etc.

- Alloys and tyres are two very important upgrades IMHO, especially the latter. As some have mentioned, Indian car companies under-tyre their cars to cut costs and boost FE figures. Someone questioned the benefit that a +1 or +2 upsize would have on grip . Having personally reaped the benefit of upsizing my Santro tyres by 1 size, I would strongly advocate this. The difference in grip levels of tyres with width 155 mm and 165 mm are significant. Of course, one should not go overboard with upsizing - this will reduce FE, slow the car down and can cause mechanical issues. Upsizing the tyres may cause warranty issues at the A.S.Cs, but I haven't heard of this too often.
In addition to cosmetic appeal, alloy wheels do have other benefits. They are much lighter than the steel wheels, which means less unsprung weight, which in turn means a better ride. They are also much stronger than the steel ones.

- ICE: Usually not an issue, but improper installation can hamper your electrical system, which may lead to warranty problems.

- Serious mods like ECU remaps, head porting+polishing, air filters, exhausts, suspension & brake upgrades, Pete's box and so on should be avoided since these would, in most situations, lead to warranty issues.

[StarVegabond]

Thanks guys (for those who responded) for sharing your views
i would need more input/insights to judge the general recommendations

once i receive sufficient views, i intend to summarize the pros, cons and value of each mod and evalueate against the so-called warrantee clause and its effects.

so, please gurus, please share your views

[balajisb]

Originally Posted by AbhiJ

My opinion in Bold.


2. Changing to a more wider (for mroe road grip) and thicker (for increasing GC) tyres

Car makers save money on tyres here in India. They undertyre the cars to save money/boast of improved fuel economy.

6. Changing the Light bulbs

Better light at night = safer car

7. Adding Pete's box or equivalent

Again, subjective. Fast drivers require fast cars. And tuning boxes are a great reversible way to add some quick oomph.

8. etc, etc

etc, etc.

I have a 175/65 R 15 alloys for my Swift...DO you recommend an upgrade..

Again for Swift what is the recommended light upgrade..

Does Pete's tuning box really aid in better mileage..I am not a very fast driver..

etc etc??

[saurabh2711]

Originally Posted by balajisb

Again for Swift what is the recommended light upgrade..

etc etc??

You brought life to a very old thread.

Please go through this thread on auto lighting should answer all your queries.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ting-here.html

Else, to improve the lights you may need 100/90 or 130/100 watt bulbs, a good & reliable relay, with proper fuse. Or if you wish, add some auxillary lights, keeping in mind of the rules & regulations on using auxillary lights. Above thread will answer all.

Keep in mind by doing this you might be playing with warranty of your car (if applicable). Else, you are free to upgrade on your will.

[balajisb]

Relays are provided by OEM right? and what is a proper fuse?? I think the Factory shipped bulbs are also 100/90.

[saurabh2711]

Originally Posted by balajisb

Relays are provided by OEM right? and what is a proper fuse?? I think the Factory shipped bulbs are also 100/90.

I don't think relay's come as OEM or standard fitments with car (if that is what you mean). Thay are all aftermarket installation for higher current rated upgrades/equipment.

Proper fuse: that suits/fits the current rating of your device, to prevent excess current flow & to prevent burnout of your device & relays sometimes.

Factory bulbs are not 100/90; as far as I know & the cars that I have seen: all of them were having 60/55 as standard installations.

Regards,
Saurabh.