[cvc2145]

After hours of brainstorming between a remap or a piggyback,
Finally decided for a piggyback for my Honda

Pros:
>Can be controlled anyday, anytime.
>Can set up multiple maps for different drive ability
>Looks good! Atleast there's a physical look..
>Can be tuned specific to my car
>Precise control over any aspect of the engine
>Can install a turbo later
>Most important - is transferable to another car or can be sold to get back some of the money invested (if not all ).


Cons:
>Installation is very difficult, and chance of blowing up your ECU or your piggyback
>If wrong parameters are inputted, engine can be damaged
>Time wastage for installation and tuning
>Cannot install a turbo on a remap
>More expensive


The most important factor for me to go with the piggyback was the flexibility, ease of tune and the options for expandability later on.
If Hondata had released its FlashPro for the non-US Civics, I'd have definitely gone with that option, as that would have had most of the Pros of the piggyback and very less, if any, Cons from it.

However, without that option available yet or having a date with it, I decided to go for it and take a chance.

Just recieved it, and now waiting to install it. Looking forward for this weekend when Ill be physically attaching the unit to the car's ECU. Till then, would try to finish the patch harness so that it can be installed asap.

And thus, the job begins........

[paras211]

Why did you prefer this over the emanage ultimate?

[pranavt]

Is this for a Civic in the US or in India? I'm guessing this is for an Indian Civic since you know about Hondata's FLashpro. What other changes have you done to the car?

How reliable is the ignition retard? It delays signals from the cam and crank position sensors, so you don't get true ignition control. Nonetheless, can you trust the FIC to correctly retard the timing?

Does the Civic come with a wideband O2 sensor or a narrowband sensor? If it's a wideband, can you read the AFRs from the FIC's datalogging application directly? If not, I hope you're using a wideband while tuning the fuelling. Same with an EGT sensor if you're tuning ignition.

And good luck with the wiring part Looks fun.

[cvc2145]

The emanage ultimate vs fic discussions proved the fic to be much much more VFM due to the inbuilt MAP sensor, and not requiring any additional injector/ignition adaptors to make it work. I read that the emanage is a much older technology and the fic has better/faster components in it.

Yep, this is for the Civic in India.
I have done some tweaking around with the engine, stage 1 + flywheel, SRI, Pulleys, free flow exhaust etc.

Yeah, the ignition controls are very precise, though it cannot advance timing, it can retard upto 32 degress in increments of 0.125. And about trusting it to do it so, I talked to some people in US who've installed it, and they said nothing beats it.

The Civic's got a semi-wideband sensor which cannot be used to display afrs so I'm planning to get a wideband kit soon. Just hoping to fool around without the wideband for the moment

[GTO]

To say that I'm glued to this thread would be an understatement. The Mods on my Civic are starting this month! Sitting on the fence between a remap + (race dynamics) piggyback myself.

Originally Posted by cvc2145

Can set up multiple maps for different drive ability

Precise control over any aspect of the engine

Huge, especially since you plan to install a turbo later.

However, my priority right now is a no-nonsense zero-maintenance modification. Not really keen on endlessly fine-tuning. What I'm looking for is a "do it and forget it".

Installation is very difficult, and chance of blowing up your ECU or your piggyback

Are you installing it yourself? Or a Tuner in Gujarat?

Originally Posted by cvc2145

I have done some tweaking around with the engine, stage 1 + flywheel, SRI, Pulleys, free flow exhaust etc.

More details please. Pro / Con of each Mod. Which are the top 5 Mods you'd recommend to a Civic owner?

[cvc2145]

The best bet for you, if you want a no-hassle and a install-and-forget mod would be to go for the remap instead of the piggyback. Don't go for either one though unless you have some other engine modifications, Naturally Aspirated petrol engines have very less gains on remaps in stock mode.

The Civic is a great car for modding, Honda has prepared this car in such a way that its very mod-friendly so you've got a nice baby to work on

The best mod for a do it and forget would be pulleys, but they add such less extra power that you might not even be able to feel the difference. Except for that, go for a CAI or a SRI and a free flow, and you'll enjoy your new Civic just by doing that much. I would definitely recommend the flywheel, makes a huge difference but driving in traffic is a pain and getting used to it also takes alot of time so don't go for that unless you're looking to drive this car only for fun on clear roads.

And, depending upon the extent you want to tune this car, I'd say the best mods to start off with > CAI, free flow ; Next stage > Remap/piggyback ; If willing to compromise comfort/FE > Lightweight flywheel and intake manifold ; And the top you can do in it for now, the turbo kit. And aside from the engine, the 225/45R17 mod was something that gave me more than I'd expected. The handling and cornering has changed significantly and the new traction really gives you the confidence to test the true power of your car.

Really, every penny you spend on this car is worth it so whatever you choose to install would definitely give you your moneys return.

Ill be doing the installation myself, not too many tuners around here. I'm finished with the harness, I might even be able to install it first thing tomorrow morning if time permits!!

Fingers crossed for now.

[avishar]

hello guys,a i have a small question.What is the difference between a standalone ecu and a piggyback?
What i have come to know that the standalone ecu lets you build completely new ignition timing maps and fuel maps whereas a piggyback will send different readings about crank position,engine speed to get a more advanced timing.
Now since cvc2145's civic already has a SRI,FFE with changed air flow characteristics woudnt it be better to get a standalone ecu?
Sorry complete novice here,like this stuff so doing some reading up

[cvc2145]

Arishar, theres more than a lot of difference between a piggyback and a standalone. Standalone's are only opted for when you plan for a 400-500+ bhp car. Piggybacks you get for 1/3-1/4 of the standalone's price and not to mention the amount of time and money you'll spend to tune it. Also, if the standalone is not tuned properly, you lose all your engine smoothness.

Not only this, but the software interface used in standalone's are much too advanced. Normal people like you and me who haven't been to a tuning school would be lost only in trying to understand what all features they have!

Standalone in my position would be an overkill cause neither do I plan to go that high horsepower, and nor do I want to waste time trying to tune it or sending it to someone who can tune it. I'd go for it only if I was planning for a big turbo like the gt30 or gt32 with forged internals, high lift cams etc. which are anyway not available for the R18 Civic.

Piggybacks are the way to go if you want a less complex, less time consuming and a more 'value for money' install.

[cvc2145]

I almost fainted when the car couldn't start after the installation of the unit. After calming myself down and trying to think optimistically, went for a look in the engine bay for any errors. I found that I had forgot to reconnect the MAF connector. Being somewhat relieved and promising sweet things to God at the back of my mind, turned the key once more and VOILA!!!

My mechanic told me he had never seen such a smile on my face before.

No CEL's, no hesitation, no wavy RPMs . . . I had to pinch myself at this point.

I'd wanted to go and start tuning it, but it was already late and I had to go back so I called it a day and finished up everything. Went down for a 5 min spin and found everything was working stock-like, except for the small bump you get when you suddenly floor the accelerator, as expected when you install a piggyback.

Fortunately, I have the weekend for myself now where I can go for a long tuning session and try to get the best out of my engine. I have called for the wideband kit which should be here in a couple of weeks. But until I can get my hands on that, Ill just rely on my butt dyno and see what I can do with the F/IC.

Will get some vids in a day or two if possible and more pics, have only the final installed pics for now.

[pranavt]

If you don't have a wideband, please learn tuning by reading spark plugs. Tuning without any idea of AFRs, whether richer or leaner, will do bad things to your engine. The butt dyno is useless. And so is any timing equipment if you don't know what AFRs you're running.

[paras211]

my emanage ultimate advances and retards timing , through the cam or not i am not sure but the ignition wires go thru the unit ,
Didnt get you about the inbuilt map sensor, isnt maf easier to use when n/a?
dont fool till you get a wideband , the sparkplug technique is scary, especially in modern cars with power everything.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by cvc2145

The best bet for you, if you want a no-hassle and a install-and-forget mod would be to go for the remap instead of the piggyback.

Thanks, that's what I'm leaning toward. Just spoke to some tuners earlier this afternoon too.

The Civic is a great car for modding, Honda has prepared this car in such a way that its very mod-friendly so you've got a nice baby to work on

Beauty of most Hondas

And aside from the engine, the 225/45R17 mod was something that gave me more than I'd expected.

Exactly the upgrade I'm planning for.

Originally Posted by cvc2145

I almost fainted when the car couldn't start after the installation of the unit.

Seriously though, since you are doing everything yourself, why not drive down to Bombay? For one, the highway is amazing. Second, you could tune it on KS Motorsport's dyno. He'll give you a good price if you buy multiple dyno runs.

[scorpian]

Dude,that filter in your bay looks real dirty. Clean it before you start tuning your car...

[pranavt]

Originally Posted by paras211

dont fool till you get a wideband , the sparkplug technique is scary, especially in modern cars with power everything.

Lol, the handbrake comes in handy

[avishar]

@cvc2145 Thanks for the reply,and your car is looking good Keep us updated.