[sajjt]

Originally Posted by whitelion

I read somewhere 4300K give Near to sunlight visibility so I feel 5000K is Nearest available to that. I have also read that blue tint light is less effective for visibility. So feel 5000K HIDs will be more functionally useful than Higher one. Anyways thanks for Information. As far as I am concerned I am studying other option of Hella Aux. Lamps due to Figo reflector Design. One of Fellow BHPian has installed such lamps and I am in touch with him before I conclude on this issue.

Rightly said, 4.3K is more close to day light as per the expert opinions. Anything more than 5K is just for show off as it will not give optimum visibility in all weather conditions.

The best option will be the aux lamps, you can check Hella FF series for short range with wide spread AFAIK and Comet series are known for long range visibility, with just 55W it will give you the best pencil beam which is good for high way cruising. FF series are more economical than Comet series.

Originally Posted by whitelion

Thanks sajjt for sharing this and Confirming issues about Figo reflectors. Before buying Figo I was aware of two issues with Figo First is HL and other is GC.

Thats a common issue for new gen entry level hatches AFAIK. I have a Beat which gracefully scrapes almost every dips on the road if I don't take care of it properly.

Originally Posted by whitelion

In this thinking line HIDs Aux Lamps, HID projector Aux Lamps, Hella Aux. Lamps with 100w and Hella 35W fog lamps are the options being considered. In first two options I think I should use either HL or this and last 2 Options use them along with HL as and when required. Sajit your comments on this are very Valuable since you have experience with Figo lighting.

I would say you can check out the Hella aux lamps any day as the first option. Even with the standard 55W halogen proves to be the best bet unless you are a light maniac who wants to teach a lesson to all high beam riding morons, if so go for HIDs on aux lamps. But I would say you are going to give 2X or even more glares than you plonk the HIDs on the stock reflector but with a slight difference, you will be armed with a search light with HID backup. Its really dangerous on roads, but the fact is there are many "morons" are already on the roads with HIDs on aux lamps which has no beam cut offs to prevent glares to even to a min level. Its your call to be a responsible person to you and others as well.

Originally Posted by whitelion

This is exactly what I am afraid of. We studied Figo's Beam and spread with stock lamps as mentioned in earlier post now a new dimension of Focal Point of reflector has come into picture. So HIDs in stock reflector is not proper solution for Figo Lighting. Only option left is Auxiliary Lamps. Sajit please ref my recent posts and suggest some options for further study.

Even on aux lamps, HIDs will cause glares as its not designed to handle the intensity of the HID and many parameters have changed like light source, incompatible optics etc.

Am no expert in this and I know optics is a very complex thing to understand. But, I came across some interesting findings when I did some experiments with HIDs on reflectors:

1. The round shaped reflectors are producing less stray glares than the other shaped ones as its got better focus.

2. On any reflector, putting HID the focus is altered due to mainly light source, secondly the bulb seating positions. ie; the glowing portion of the bulb is different in a halogen and HID.When I took a wall projection of a HID on reflector (round) it was giving glares to sides due to the MFR design mostly, then I tried to pull the HID capsule towards back without locking it to the reflector socket to see any focus change, it was giving better spread as well as less glares. Sadly, at that point we can't fix the bulb to the reflector as its too way back from the lock. Unfortunately I don't've any pics to share with you. So this reveals there will be serious focus issues due to the HID conversion kits on normal reflectors.

Illegal HID Convesion Kits Explained - YouTube

For more serious reading :
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

Hope this will give some insights to you when upgrading lights.

[whitelion]

Originally Posted by sajjt

The best option will be the aux lamps, you can check Hella FF series for short range with wide spread AFAIK and Comet series are known for long range visibility, with just 55W it will give you the best pencil beam which is good for high way cruising. FF series are more economical than Comet series.

Thanks, very Very valuable Input.

I would say you can check out the Hella aux lamps any day as the first option. Even with the standard 55W halogen proves to be the best bet unless you are a light maniac who wants to teach a lesson to all high beam riding morons, if so go for HIDs on aux lamps. But I would say you are going to give 2X or even more glares than you plonk the HIDs on the stock reflector but with a slight difference, you will be armed with a search light with HID backup. Its really dangerous on roads, but the fact is there are many "morons" are already on the roads with HIDs on aux lamps which has no beam cut offs to prevent glares to even to a min level. Its your call to be a responsible person to you and others as well.

No I don't want to teach anybody a lesson. My focus is on Increasing Night time visibility with minimum possible trouble to Others.

Even on aux lamps, HIDs will cause glares as its not designed to handle the intensity of the HID and many parameters have changed like light source, incompatible optics etc.

Am no expert in this and I know optics is a very complex thing to understand. But, I came across some interesting findings when I did some experiments with HIDs on reflectors:

1. The round shaped reflectors are producing less stray glares than the other shaped ones as its got better focus.

2. On any reflector, putting HID the focus is altered due to mainly light source, secondly the bulb seating positions. ie; the glowing portion of the bulb is different in a halogen and HID.When I took a wall projection of a HID on reflector (round) it was giving glares to sides due to the MFR design mostly, then I tried to pull the HID capsule towards back without locking it to the reflector socket to see any focus change, it was giving better spread as well as less glares. Sadly, at that point we can't fix the bulb to the reflector as its too way back from the lock. Unfortunately I don't've any pics to share with you. So this reveals there will be serious focus issues due to the HID conversion kits on normal reflectors.

Illegal HID Convesion Kits Explained - YouTube


For more serious reading :
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

Hope this will give some insights to you when upgrading lights.

Thanks sajit for valuable Information. Now the options are narrowed to Hella Aux. Lamps without HIDs, First I will study further how these Lamps can be Fitted on Figo's Front side. Mostly to start with 55W bulbs and if those are found to be inadequate then may Upgrade them to 100W. So While finding suitable lamps I will try to get lamps which can sustain 100W bulbs heat factor. For selecting between Commet and FF series I may need to restudy stock HL's Spread and Beam pattern to decide whether short throw and wide spread or Long throw and narrow spread is need. Now it seems that I have to use Stock HL and Aux. Lamps together.

[keyur]

Originally Posted by whitelion

...

White, sorry for not posting the comparos this weekend. It's been raining like crazy and I do not have the inclination to get my Nikon wet. Only the Extreme Vision pics are remaining to be taken!

Also, with the EVs, though the spread does not seem to change much, the range and the intensity both show a good improvement (unlike the CVs which give a blue-white light, with no great improvement wrt reach)

[whitelion]

Originally Posted by keyur

White, sorry for not posting the comparos this weekend. It's been raining like crazy and I do not have the inclination to get my Nikon wet. Only the Extreme Vision pics are remaining to be taken!

Similar Situation here too. My ownership thread is also pending for pictures. Since there is rain almost daily here and due to road reconstruction-Drainage expansion project the car is not in presentable position even after a small travel. In rural area flood situations are building up.

Originally Posted by keyur

Also, with the EVs, though the spread does not seem to change much, the range and the intensity both show a good improvement (unlike the CVs which give a blue-white light, with no great improvement wrt reach)

No problem, Take your own time. The spread and range depends on reflector design. Figo stock reflectors have very pathetic spread and range, thats why I was doubtful about putting High Intensity bulbs (90/100 or HIDs) in stock reflectors. Yourself, Sajit and laxmanrk have confirmed this, so I feel that there is need for some auxiliary lamps to cover uncovered regions by stock reflectors.

I am narrowing down to a solution as follows. Replace stock bulbs with 55/60W NBP or XV for daily commute. Have arrangements for easily installable Aux. Lamps, Mostly Hella FF series, as and when required for Highways, Ghat section and Rural area Rides.

The estimated setback is about 7K to 8K and may hamper looks of Car but its justifiable for risk of Accident due to poor visibility. Now I am studying how the second part can be implemented in consultation with A.S.S.C. Bodyshop technician and finding out most economical Aux. Lamp (60W range) which will give adequate illumination.

[ghpk]

sajjt Thanks for your expert suggestion, I am not going for HID easily now.

Anyway, if someone can arrange one from USA, I can take a 35usd risk and might use them in aux lamps, but that will not be easily arrangeable for me.

[sajjt]

Originally Posted by whitelion

The estimated setback is about 7K to 8K and may hamper looks of Car but its justifiable for risk of Accident due to poor visibility. Now I am studying how the second part can be implemented in consultation with A.S.S.C. Bodyshop technician and finding out most economical Aux. Lamp (60W range) which will give adequate illumination.

If visibility is your prime concern, do not compromise for a economical local make aux lamps as they may look good and the price will be too tempting to go for, but when it comes to performance, it will disappoint you totally. Always stick to some reputed brands like Hella, PIAA, Light Force, KC Hilites etc. First option will be more viable cost wise if you can shell out few thousands more, other options are worth to invest.

[whitelion]

Originally Posted by sajjt

If visibility is your prime concern, do not compromise for a economical local make aux lamps as they may look good and the price will be too tempting to go for, but when it comes to performance, it will disappoint you totally. Always stick to some reputed brands like Hella, PIAA, Light Force, KC Hilites etc. First option will be more viable cost wise if you can shell out few thousands more, other options are worth to invest.

Thanks sajit, I would prefer Hella then, since Sunfilms are also on agenda. You know what happens to pocket when you buy a new car, bit tight budget constraints, but noway going for some substandard brands and products rather I would prefer to wait for sometime.

Well, I have shortlisted Following Hella Lamps. I would like to request a help in ordering them in adequacy point of view. I dont intend to show off or trouble on coming traffic. I plan to use them along with Head Lamps for highway and rural area rides by mounting them on easily detachable brackets. Similarly I will upgrade HL to Osram NBP or Philips XV (@1K/-) for day to day city commute. I expect that these lamps should cover regions not covered by Figos Stock Head Lamps. I think I have made requirements clear to my level best, so experts and experienced persons please contribute.


Comet 550 (1287/-)


In the classical rectangular design. For upright or pendant mounting. Voltage : 12V
Length : 195 mm
Height : 120 mm
Width : 96 mm
Lamp Type : Driving, Fog
Bulb Type : H3 (Driving Lamp White, Driving Lamp White, with cover & Bulb,
Fog Lamp White)



Comet 450 (4500/-)

• The standard model for almost every purpose. For upright or pendant mounting.

Voltage : 12V
Length : 161 mm
Height : 114 mm
Width : 90 mm
Lamp Type : Driving, Fog
Bulb Type : H3 (Driving Lamp White, Driving Lamp Yellow, Fog Lamp Yellow)

Rallye 700FF (6000/-)

• Light weight design
• Bounded, water tight lens assembly
• Aluminium vapor-coated reflector
• Sturdy, shock-proof housing
• Easy bulb replacement
• Easy mounting adjustment.

Voltage : 12V
Height : 218 mm
Width : 88 mm
Diameter : 186 mm
Lamp Type : Driving
Bulb Type : H3 (Driving Lamp)


Rallye 500FF (5000/-)

• Light weight design
• Bounded, water tight lens assembly
• Aluminium vapor-coated reflector
• Sturdy, shock-proof housing
• Easy bulb replacement
• Easy mounting adjustment.

Voltage : 12V
Height : 175 mm
Width : 67 mm
Diameter : 163 mm
Lamp Type : Driving
Bulb Type : H3 (Driving Lamp)

* Prices as per website http://www.shop4hella.com/

If you feel some other model is useful please do suggest.

[keyur]

Originally Posted by whitelion

The spread and range depends on reflector design.

The reflector will definitely affect spread, but not the range. Range will depend on the intensity.

In my Optra, the spread remains the same, but the range is improved with the XVs (visibly). Apart from the range, the intensity of the light also increases, which means that I can still see the road in the face of oncoming glare, in rains, fog etc.

Your car is not meant to be fitted normally with the aux lamps, so though you could drill them into the bumper, the lamps will end up getting loose or dangling or losing the exact focus settings - and to top it up, they will be an eyesore. You could have a mini bull bar (should we call it the goat bar or ram bar ) installed, but that will again mar the look. And please do not drill the lamps into the body!

Go with the stock replacements with yellow light like XV (check NB+ ; if white or blue, discard). See the difference for yourself and only then go for the aux if required.

If you are planning to spend 7-8K, you might also look at changing the entire headlamp assembly to something that might give you a better spread!

[whitelion]

Originally Posted by keyur

The reflector will definitely affect spread, but not the range. Range will depend on the intensity.

In my Optra, the spread remains the same, but the range is improved with the XVs (visibly). Apart from the range, the intensity of the light also increases, which means that I can still see the road in the face of oncoming glare, in rains, fog etc.

Your car is not meant to be fitted normally with the aux lamps, so though you could drill them into the bumper, the lamps will end up getting loose or dangling or losing the exact focus settings - and to top it up, they will be an eyesore. You could have a mini bull bar (should we call it the goat bar or ram bar ) installed, but that will again mar the look. And please do not drill the lamps into the body!

I do agree with you, I am going to go in steps. First I will upgrade HL to either NBP or XV (please comment which one is better). Check visibility adequacy and Night driving confidence. Still If bad reflector design is causing problems then go for Auxiliary lamps which can be easily detached and use them for Highways and rural area trips. As many Figo owners who upgraded to High intensity bulbs have expressed their unhappiness towards adequacy for highways and Ghat sections I feel that Aux. Lamp addition is only solution left then considering safety over looks of Car.

I am aware of problems with Body drilling, bumper drilling, bull bar drilling etc. etc. A fellow BHPian has done it in clean way using existing holes on Figo's body. You can read his experience in that thread. I am trying to find a way to make it easily detachable, that's all.

Originally Posted by keyur

Go with the stock replacements with yellow light like XV (check NB+ ; if white or blue, discard). See the difference for yourself and only then go for the aux if required.

If you are planning to spend 7-8K, you might also look at changing the entire headlamp assembly to something that might give you a better spread!

I inquired about it at A.S.S.C. but no use. They dont bother about this problem.

As per advice received in earlier posts shortlisted NBP and XV and got prices too NBP 980/- pair, XV 900/- pair, Installation extra. Please suggest which one you found to be better. The A.S.S.C. service manager has promised me to get these bulbs fitted and focused since those are of same wattage that of stock. So Part one of the solution is achievable once bulbs are bought.

For Second part I am talking to a BodyShop technician and a Fabricator about how the bracket can be designed so that it will become detachable. When we conclude I will post it. For Aux lamps selection I have posted as above.

[keyur]

Originally Posted by whitelion

As per advice received in earlier posts shortlisted NBP and XV and got prices too NBP 980/- pair, XV 900/- pair, Installation extra. Please suggest which one you found to be better. The A.S.S.C. service manager has promised me to get these bulbs fitted and focused since those are of same wattage that of stock. So Part one of the solution is achievable once bulbs are bought.

I tested with the NB (not plus) and they were around Rs.1400 for the pair. They had white light and hence rejected. Am finding the XVs really good.

You can change the lamps your self (check my diy thread - later as it is now in assembly again). For the Figo, you do not even have to remove the lamps - there is enough space behind the lamps to do it yourself (will take a couple of minutes).

[whitelion]

Originally Posted by keyur

I tested with the NB (not plus) and they were around Rs.1400 for the pair. They had white light and hence rejected. Am finding the XVs really good.

You can change the lamps your self (check my diy thread - later as it is now in assembly again). For the Figo, you do not even have to remove the lamps - there is enough space behind the lamps to do it yourself (will take a couple of minutes).

Thanks Keyur for final verdict on bulbs, I was in dilemma since price and performance reviews were marginally differing. I also came across NBP review confirming your thoughts about visibility. So I will try to procure XVs as soon as possible. About installation I will try DIY first since it will be helpful if any bulb fails in midway of journey. If unsuccessful then will go to A.S.S.C. Thanks for encouragement.

BTW what do you think about 2nd part of the solution ? Am I on right track ?

[keyur]

Originally Posted by whitelion

About installation I will try DIY first since it will be helpful if any bulb fails in midway of journey. If unsuccessful then will go to A.S.S.C. Thanks for encouragement.

BTW what do you think about 2nd part of the solution ? Am I on right track ?

The DIY is very easy. Just put your hand behind the assembly (read your manual), locate the bulb holder and turn it. Pull it out. Do not touch the glass of the bulb - use a clean cloth.

Then put the new bulb in and insert the holder back in place and screw it.

Open the wrapping of the new bulbs carefully so that you can store the original ones back in it.

My dad has a Fiesta (about 4 days old) and it has separate H1 and H7 for both the beams. Do you need H1/H7 pair or H4?


About the second part, first wait for the results and see what happens. Are your front fogs not sufficient?

[whitelion]

Originally Posted by keyur

The DIY is very easy. Just put your hand behind the assembly (read your manual), locate the bulb holder and turn it. Pull it out. Do not touch the glass of the bulb - use a clean cloth.

Then put the new bulb in and insert the holder back in place and screw it.

Open the wrapping of the new bulbs carefully so that you can store the original ones back in it.

Thanks a lot I will keep in my mind these things.

My dad has a Fiesta (about 4 days old) and it has separate H1 and H7 for both the beams. Do you need H1/H7 pair or H4?


About the second part, first wait for the results and see what happens. Are your front fogs not sufficient?

Thats a Nice suggestion. Nearby visibility is hampering With only stock HLs on but with Both on it is manageable. The beam pattern is sort of sharply cut narrow nearly rectangular Band and beyond or nearer to that there is no light at all, so no visibility. Distant objects which are beyond range of both are not visible due to non scattering of light. Please see any Picture of Figo Head Lamp cluster so that you may get some idea why it might be happening. To get enough reaction time, one has to be at slow speed may be at 30/40, with oncoming glare even below that, thats why I don't feel confident and always tense while driving in nights even in city. On Dry road or Concrete Road where beam band falls, visibility is adequate even with stock lamps. My M800 mechanic blamed reflector of Figo and suggested Aux lamps, otherwise he was insisting 90/100 as he did with my M800 9/10 years ago.

[adi_petrolhead]

Yes so I've installed Osram Night breaker H1 in my Laura '11, wil check the performance at night and post back.

[adi_petrolhead]

So i tested the Night breaker, dissapointed. Not much of a difference in the performance besides a slightly whiter light compared to stock (also Osram) bulbs. Worth the 1000 bucks? May be. Depends on your use.