buying a Zen for modding

zen-ith · 15th January 2006, 12:24

Hi,
I am planning to buy my first 4 wheeler, a pre-owned zen (because of sentimental value). I want to make this investment a hands on experience in car modification. Firstly, I need advice on which zen to go in for. Should I choose
A. pre-2000 LX (carb, no ps, no frills). How long will one such last without nagging issues (assuming a <40,000 km single owner, city driven, good condition car). Also how much is it likely to cost in Bangalore?

B. 2000-2001 LX (mpfi, BS1, no ps, no frills). Same questions as for A. Will the 2-3 kmpl FE increase compensate for savings on initial cost?

The mods I have planned for over the next 5 years are (in order of execution)
1. 165/60r13 tires + 5j alloy rims. Which model/make do you suggest? I understand overall dia will decrease by 27 mm over OE 145/80/12! How will this affect handling & braking? How can i correct the resulting speedo error of +1.8 kmph?
2. Pricol tacho
3. K&N (stock replacement) kit though going by speedsatya's experience and from here, I am still considering it.
4. Matched headers.
5. Free flow exhaust (maybe automech?). If i don't go in for the K&N, will this be needed?
6. micro fog lamps
7. momo steering wheel and shift stick (any cheaper alternatives/good fakes?) and fake recaro front seats.
8. imported brakes/pads (say swift's, or are esteem brakes better?) How will this affect cornering/handling?
9. esteem engine.

Now I have plenty of questions.
a. If I change my engine, can i still use the same K&N and exhaust kits (headers)? If not, I am scrapping the engine change idea.
b. What bhp inrease can I expect (with and without engine change)
c. What is the possibility of this car being street legal (before and after engine change) and how do I handle RTO mess?
d. What will be approximate cost of each mod?
e. Where in Bangalore can I get this done professionally?
f. What engine oil, fuel, fuel additives are recommended?

speedsatya, any inputs?

TIA team.

mclaren1885 · 15th January 2006, 15:56

ok seems ur very interested in this project.. Well now that u are in bangalore i suggest u do PM or contact psycho .. He is excellent with specially zens ..

coming to ur questions ,
unless u have a universal performance conical filter u cant use it on different engines on the same car ..

depending on ur budget for a engine swap u can get urself an esteem engine ( 85 bhp modded ) , baleno engine ( 110bhp modded ) , honda 1.5 ( 110bhp modded ) .. The engines are a plenty u can even get urself a suzuki twin cam engine ( nearly 90bhp stock ) ... So all ur engine swaps is purely based on the kind of money u can shell out ..

Engine swaps are illegal as of now .. So ones need to take that into consideration before taken up the project ..

without an engine swap with a injected setup u can look at anywhere btwn 75 bhp atleast with working on the head , FF , headers etc ..

for a good setup based on the base engine that u choose u will have to shell out anywhere btwn 50k to 1.5 L ...

Id suggest for further info u contact psycho ..

anant_n1 · 16th January 2006, 00:42

•Complete Add-on kit – bumpers, spoiler, hood, side skirts, fenders
•High Lift Cam from PIPER – BP285
•Head polishing, porting and facing
•Free flow 4x2x1 exhaust system using N1 Spec mufflers
•ROSS RACING Flat top Forged Pistons
•MSD ignition system
•NGK Iridium spark plugs
•KNN air filter
•FSE Fuel pressure regulator
•N1 Racing Short shift Gear Lever
•MOMO pedals, gear knob and steering wheel
•NOS 05030 kit (+75bhp)
•N1 Racing wing spoiler
•Gabriel Coil Suspension
•AutoGauge Performance Gauges - Smoke series
•Custom-made adjustable Strut braces
•Modified Mikuni Carburetor
•Tire profile - 185/60 R13

a. If I change my engine, can i still use the same K&N and exhaust kits (headers)? If not, I am scrapping the engine change idea.
Free flow Zen headers work on the Esteem engine

b. What bhp inrease can I expect (with and without engine change)
More to do with the power to weight ratio. Expect a rocking ride !!

c. What is the possibility of this car being street legal (before and after engine change) and how do I handle RTO mess?
RTOs usually dont bother much as long as you have a soft exhaust. b4 you go ahead with such engine swaps you need to be prepared yourself and take responsibility. They are definitely illegal !!

d. What will be approximate cost of each mod?
Complete list of mods would be around 2-2.5

e. Where in Bangalore can I get this done professionally?
??

f. What engine oil, fuel, fuel additives are recommended?
Shell synthetic, Mobil 1, OWS synthetic
Speed, Power (dont use extra premium)
dont use additives. For drags use NOS additives

v1p3r · 16th January 2006, 00:56

Whoa, who uses a 75bhp nitrous shot on Indian engines?!

I think he's looking at a much simpler setup, since I'm sure the cost of the one you mentioned is nowhere under 1.5-2 lakhs.

mclaren1885 · 16th January 2006, 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Whoa, who uses a 75bhp nitrous shot on Indian engines?!

Ya pls tell me one engine that can fit in a zen that hold that kind of NOS shot .. Im curious ..

cinclaturbo · 16th January 2006, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Whoa, who uses a 75bhp nitrous shot on Indian engines?!

I think he's looking at a much simpler setup, since I'm sure the cost of the one you mentioned is nowhere under 1.5-2 lakhs.

U'll be surpriced!!.....There are few cars that ran much more than 75 hp on an indian engine......look at speed 03 results.......and guess the car............i know of one who used 50 hp on a bike.

v1p3r · 16th January 2006, 01:06

Not that clued in, bro. Also, I don't have 03 results, only 04.

50 shot on the 01 GSX???

cinclaturbo · 16th January 2006, 01:12

yeah 50 hp on a 01 gsxr.

v1p3r · 16th January 2006, 01:17

That's pretty whacked! How does the rider control that? I'm guessing high 8s if controlled.

zen-ith · 16th January 2006, 16:35

I am not looking at a setup that exceeds 1.5 lakhs. Especially, I'm not considering a NOS kit at all now. But anant_n1, I'd really like to know how much that set up that you mentioned costs. I'd also like to know, if I use a universal performance cone filter as mclaren1885 suggested, wont I even need to change the lengths of intermediate pipes? What will be the difference in performance between a universal cone and an ordinary set up?

viper · 16th January 2006, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by anant_n1

•Complete Add-on kit – bumpers, spoiler, hood, side skirts, fenders
•High Lift Cam from PIPER – BP285
•Head polishing, porting and facing
•Free flow 4x2x1 exhaust system using N1 Spec mufflers
•ROSS RACING Flat top Forged Pistons
•MSD ignition system
•NGK Iridium spark plugs
•KNN air filter
•FSE Fuel pressure regulator
•N1 Racing Short shift Gear Lever
•MOMO pedals, gear knob and steering wheel
•NOS 05030 kit (+75bhp)
•N1 Racing wing spoiler
•Gabriel Coil Suspension
•AutoGauge Performance Gauges - Smoke series
•Custom-made adjustable Strut braces
•Modified Mikuni Carburetor
•Tire profile - 185/60 R13
(source - n1engineering.com)

a. If I change my engine, can i still use the same K&N and exhaust kits (headers)? If not, I am scrapping the engine change idea.
Free flow Zen headers work on the Esteem engine

b. What bhp inrease can I expect (with and without engine change)
More to do with the power to weight ratio. Expect a rocking ride !!

c. What is the possibility of this car being street legal (before and after engine change) and how do I handle RTO mess?
RTOs usually dont bother much as long as you have a soft exhaust. b4 you go ahead with such engine swaps you need to be prepared yourself and take responsibility. They are definitely illegal !!

d. What will be approximate cost of each mod?
Complete list of mods would be around 2-2.5

e. Where in Bangalore can I get this done professionally?
??

f. What engine oil, fuel, fuel additives are recommended?
Shell synthetic, Mobil 1, OWS synthetic
Speed, Power (dont use extra premium)
dont use additives. For drags use NOS additives

Hey Zen-nith,

You dont need all the above mods for a fast car. They are more of fancy names and will only be required for extreme use and not for a street car. You need to first decide if you want a basic fast car or do you want to drag it. Either which way you can get a extremely fast car belting out close to 90 bhp(all inclusive of parts) for under 75k. for 1.5 lacs you have multiple options which will perform far better than what is mentioned above. Also he has included a lot of cosmetic stuff which is not required for performance.

You can pm me for further details but since you are in Banglore I recommend you get in touch with either Pyscho or Dominic. You can go in for all the fancy stuff later on.

Viper

zen-ith · 17th January 2006, 10:06

Thanks mustang_gt. I am looking for a fast street car. No professional drags. Maybe a few very amateur ones (more with friends). So I don't think I'll need a drag set up at all. Anyway, a stock replacement should do for an old zen right? If so, wont i still need to get the pipes for the intake fabricated, because if I want cold air coming in I cant leave the intake at the heart of the engine, from what I have read. Truly, how much does that affect the K7N's performance? Also what about the pipes for the free-flow?

viper · 17th January 2006, 10:36

[quote=mustang_gt][left]The setup would cost in excess of 2.5 as forged pistons cost around 40k. You cannot run over 50bhp on a zen without forged pistons. We havent tried running 50bhp+ on stock pistons. not worth taking risks......75bhp jetting has been tried by us. Works fine after the pistons. But the car owner doesnt want to risk 75bhp all the time. so we set it up for 50bhp. - What do you mean by us are you a tuner. By any chance are you a friend of Annant and are you referring to the red zen. You seem to be marketing him effectively.

Also if you read carefully he wants a fast road car and no NOS. You definitely do not need forged pistons for everyday use. There will be only a handful cars using forged pistons and the ones that do have them will be running turbos.

Viper

Insane Devil · 17th January 2006, 17:15

mite, why are u not going for hte PS and Power windows???? dont miss them out, as u will definately be putting in Alloys and fatter tyres, take the Ps.

Psycho · 17th January 2006, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by anant_n1

a. If I change my engine, can i still use the same K&N and exhaust kits (headers)? If not, I am scrapping the engine change idea.
Free flow Zen headers work on the Esteem engine

Isn't each header designed based on the CC, Exhaust Port Length, Exhaust Duration, RPM range required ???

15th January 2006, 12:24	#1
zen-ith Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20 Thanked: 0 Times	buying a Zen for modding Hi, I am planning to buy my first 4 wheeler, a pre-owned zen (because of sentimental value). I want to make this investment a hands on experience in car modification. Firstly, I need advice on which zen to go in for. Should I choose A. pre-2000 LX (carb, no ps, no frills). How long will one such last without nagging issues (assuming a <40,000 km single owner, city driven, good condition car). Also how much is it likely to cost in Bangalore? B. 2000-2001 LX (mpfi, BS1, no ps, no frills). Same questions as for A. Will the 2-3 kmpl FE increase compensate for savings on initial cost? The mods I have planned for over the next 5 years are (in order of execution) 1. 165/60r13 tires + 5j alloy rims. Which model/make do you suggest? I understand overall dia will decrease by 27 mm over OE 145/80/12! How will this affect handling & braking? How can i correct the resulting speedo error of +1.8 kmph? 2. Pricol tacho 3. K&N (stock replacement) kit though going by speedsatya's experience and from here, I am still considering it. 4. Matched headers. 5. Free flow exhaust (maybe automech?). If i don't go in for the K&N, will this be needed? 6. micro fog lamps 7. momo steering wheel and shift stick (any cheaper alternatives/good fakes?) and fake recaro front seats. 8. imported brakes/pads (say swift's, or are esteem brakes better?) How will this affect cornering/handling? 9. esteem engine. Now I have plenty of questions. a. If I change my engine, can i still use the same K&N and exhaust kits (headers)? If not, I am scrapping the engine change idea. b. What bhp inrease can I expect (with and without engine change) c. What is the possibility of this car being street legal (before and after engine change) and how do I handle RTO mess? d. What will be approximate cost of each mod? e. Where in Bangalore can I get this done professionally? f. What engine oil, fuel, fuel additives are recommended? speedsatya, any inputs? TIA team.
	() Thanks

15th January 2006, 15:56	#2
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	ok seems ur very interested in this project.. Well now that u are in bangalore i suggest u do PM or contact psycho .. He is excellent with specially zens .. coming to ur questions , unless u have a universal performance conical filter u cant use it on different engines on the same car .. depending on ur budget for a engine swap u can get urself an esteem engine ( 85 bhp modded ) , baleno engine ( 110bhp modded ) , honda 1.5 ( 110bhp modded ) .. The engines are a plenty u can even get urself a suzuki twin cam engine ( nearly 90bhp stock ) ... So all ur engine swaps is purely based on the kind of money u can shell out .. Engine swaps are illegal as of now .. So ones need to take that into consideration before taken up the project .. without an engine swap with a injected setup u can look at anywhere btwn 75 bhp atleast with working on the head , FF , headers etc .. for a good setup based on the base engine that u choose u will have to shell out anywhere btwn 50k to 1.5 L ... Id suggest for further info u contact psycho ..
	() Thanks

16th January 2006, 00:42	#3
anant_n1 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 21 Thanked: 0 Times	•Complete Add-on kit – bumpers, spoiler, hood, side skirts, fenders •High Lift Cam from PIPER – BP285 •Head polishing, porting and facing •Free flow 4x2x1 exhaust system using N1 Spec mufflers •ROSS RACING Flat top Forged Pistons •MSD ignition system •NGK Iridium spark plugs •KNN air filter •FSE Fuel pressure regulator •N1 Racing Short shift Gear Lever •MOMO pedals, gear knob and steering wheel •NOS 05030 kit (+75bhp) •N1 Racing wing spoiler •Gabriel Coil Suspension •AutoGauge Performance Gauges - Smoke series •Custom-made adjustable Strut braces •Modified Mikuni Carburetor •Tire profile - 185/60 R13 a. If I change my engine, can i still use the same K&N and exhaust kits (headers)? If not, I am scrapping the engine change idea. Free flow Zen headers work on the Esteem engine b. What bhp inrease can I expect (with and without engine change) More to do with the power to weight ratio. Expect a rocking ride !! c. What is the possibility of this car being street legal (before and after engine change) and how do I handle RTO mess? RTOs usually dont bother much as long as you have a soft exhaust. b4 you go ahead with such engine swaps you need to be prepared yourself and take responsibility. They are definitely illegal !! d. What will be approximate cost of each mod? Complete list of mods would be around 2-2.5 e. Where in Bangalore can I get this done professionally? ?? f. What engine oil, fuel, fuel additives are recommended? Shell synthetic, Mobil 1, OWS synthetic Speed, Power (dont use extra premium) dont use additives. For drags use NOS additives Last edited by anant_n1 : 16th January 2006 at 00:58.
	() Thanks

16th January 2006, 00:56	#4
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	Whoa, who uses a 75bhp nitrous shot on Indian engines?! I think he's looking at a much simpler setup, since I'm sure the cost of the one you mentioned is nowhere under 1.5-2 lakhs.
	() Thanks

16th January 2006, 01:06	#7
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	Not that clued in, bro. Also, I don't have 03 results, only 04. 50 shot on the 01 GSX???
	() Thanks

16th January 2006, 01:12	#8
cinclaturbo BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 185 Thanked: 74 Times View My Garage	yeah 50 hp on a 01 gsxr.
	() Thanks

16th January 2006, 01:17	#9
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	That's pretty whacked! How does the rider control that? I'm guessing high 8s if controlled.
	() Thanks

16th January 2006, 16:35	#10
zen-ith Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20 Thanked: 0 Times	I am not looking at a setup that exceeds 1.5 lakhs. Especially, I'm not considering a NOS kit at all now. But anant_n1, I'd really like to know how much that set up that you mentioned costs. I'd also like to know, if I use a universal performance cone filter as mclaren1885 suggested, wont I even need to change the lengths of intermediate pipes? What will be the difference in performance between a universal cone and an ordinary set up?
	() Thanks

17th January 2006, 10:06	#12
zen-ith Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20 Thanked: 0 Times	Thanks mustang_gt. I am looking for a fast street car. No professional drags. Maybe a few very amateur ones (more with friends). So I don't think I'll need a drag set up at all. Anyway, a stock replacement should do for an old zen right? If so, wont i still need to get the pipes for the intake fabricated, because if I want cold air coming in I cant leave the intake at the heart of the engine, from what I have read. Truly, how much does that affect the K7N's performance? Also what about the pipes for the free-flow?
	() Thanks

17th January 2006, 10:36	#13
viper BANNED Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,773 Thanked: 19 Times	[quote=mustang_gt][left]The setup would cost in excess of 2.5 as forged pistons cost around 40k. You cannot run over 50bhp on a zen without forged pistons. We havent tried running 50bhp+ on stock pistons. not worth taking risks......75bhp jetting has been tried by us. Works fine after the pistons. But the car owner doesnt want to risk 75bhp all the time. so we set it up for 50bhp. - What do you mean by us are you a tuner. By any chance are you a friend of Annant and are you referring to the red zen. You seem to be marketing him effectively. Also if you read carefully he wants a fast road car and no NOS. You definitely do not need forged pistons for everyday use. There will be only a handful cars using forged pistons and the ones that do have them will be running turbos. Viper
	() Thanks

17th January 2006, 17:15	#14
Insane Devil BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 987 Thanked: 173 Times View My Garage	mite, why are u not going for hte PS and Power windows???? dont miss them out, as u will definately be putting in Alloys and fatter tyres, take the Ps.
	() Thanks