ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[Gansan]

About engine flushing:
Quote:
"Unless there's something seriously wrong with your engine, like you've filled it with milk or shampoo, you really ought never to need a flushing oil. If you do decide to do an oil flush, there's two ways of doing it. You can either use a dedicated flushing oil, or a flushing additive in your existing oil. Either way it's wise to change the filter first so you have a clean one to collect all the gunk. (This typically means draining the oil or working fast). Once you have a new filter in place, and the flushing oil (or flushing solution) in there, run the engine at a fast idle for about 20 minutes. Finally, drain all this off, replace the oil filter again, refill with a good synthetic oil and voila! Clean(er) engine.

In an old engine you really don't want to remove all the deposits. I have heard of engines with over 280,000km that worked fine, but when flushed, failed in a month because the blow-by past the scraper ring (now really clean) contaminated the oil and ruined the rod bearings."

Unquote!

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_b...#ixzz2nnWBPD8V

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Sridhar K

At 20k service of my Swift ZDI, shifted to Shell Mineral at M.A.S.S from Mobil1 which was filled during 10k service at MSM. Having used Mobil1 and Mobil Delvac MX earlier, finding Shell mineral much better in terms of engine smoothness and refinement. The cars odo is currently at 25k and I am planning to change oil (Shell HX6 Diesel) in a day or two.

Why not continue with shell synthetic oil a they are better than Mobil and Castrol. I'm saying this from my personal experience.

If you intend to use mineral oil the interval to change oils is every 5K kms and for synthetic it is 10K kms. Don't use mineral oil tool 10K kms as it losses is properties pay 5K. The NVH levels are high as compared when oil was new.

Anurag.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Sridhar K

At 20k service of my Swift ZDI, shifted to Shell Mineral at M.A.S.S from Mobil1 which was filled during 10k service at MSM. Having used Mobil1 and Mobil Delvac MX earlier, finding Shell mineral much better in terms of engine smoothness and refinement. The cars odo is currently at 25k and I am planning to change oil (Shell HX6 Diesel) in a day or two.

Did you say MASS used a petrol specific oil - Mobil1 - on your ZDI? That's careless.

Yes, shell helix HX6 diesel is a very good mineral oil. Infact, i have read on online forums that it is better than its competitor - the Delvac MX in terms of outright smoothness! Although its better to stick to the oil change interval of 5K kms along with oil filter if you are sticking to mineral oil.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Why not continue with shell synthetic oil a they are better than Mobil and Castrol. I'm saying this from my personal experience.

If you intend to use mineral oil the interval to change oils is every 5K kms and for synthetic it is 10K kms. Don't use mineral oil tool 10K kms as it losses is properties pay 5K. The NVH levels are high as compared when oil was new.

Anurag.

Unfortunately, Shell does not have a diesel engine specific synthetic oil in India.

The diesel specific synthetic oil from shell stable is the Shell helix diesel ultra. But that has outdated specs . Its CF-4 compliant whereas the modern diesel engines(multijet and hyundai U2 diesels) require minimum of CH-4 . Which effectively means from the shell stable the only compatiable diesel oil for modern diesel is the shell helix diesel HX-6

[Sridhar K]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Did you say MASS used a petrol specific oil - Mobil1 - on your ZDI? That's careless.

Unfortunately, Shell does not have a diesel engine specific synthetic oil in India.

Absolutely. MSM was using Shell Synthetic earlier and now they have shifted to Mobil1 which I was there in the 10k bill even though the SA told Shell synthetic. Later I got to know from them that they have shifted to Mobil1 from Shell synthetic recently. Even T.A.S.S does the same for Manzas and is even recommended in the manual.

It seems Shell helix ultra is common for both diesel and petrol, is being recommended and used by a few of the few good independent garages that I know. The shell website showed a helix diesel ultra but it seems it is unavailable in India.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Why not continue with shell synthetic oil a they are better than Mobil and Castrol. I'm saying this from my personal experience.

If you intend to use mineral oil the interval to change oils is every 5K kms and for synthetic it is 10K kms. Don't use mineral oil tool 10K kms as it losses is properties pay 5K. The NVH levels are high as compared when oil was new.

Anurag.

Yes. I am planning to change the oil tomorrow at 5K even though M.A.S.S recommends a 10k interval for Swift with Mineral

[Grr7]

Originally Posted by Sridhar K

At 20k service of my Swift ZDI, shifted to Shell Mineral at M.A.S.S from Mobil1 which was filled during 10k service at MSM. Having used Mobil1 and Mobil Delvac MX earlier, finding Shell mineral much better in terms of engine smoothness and refinement. The cars odo is currently at 25k and I am planning to change oil (Shell HX6 Diesel) in a day or two.

Even I am thinking of shifting to mineral oil from synthetic oil during 30k kms service of my swift vdi. The Mobil1 0W40 seems to be an overkill for my kind of usage. I would prefer to get the engine oil and filter changed at 5k intervals with mineral oil instead of sticking to synthetic for 10k km. Changing of mineral oil at every 5k km would still come out to be substantially cheaper than the synthetic oil change at 10k km interval.
A question for you, did you opted for an engine flush before switching to mineral oil? Or was it a simple process of drain the old oil and fill new one.

[Sridhar K]

Originally Posted by Grr7

A question for you, did you opted for an engine flush before switching to mineral oil? Or was it a simple process of drain the old oil and fill new one.

No engine flush and the simple process of drain the old and fill new one.

[powerwidFE]

During the last service, which was the 3rd paid service for my WagonR, the SA convinced my father to put in synthetic oil and filled in Mobil1 0w40 synthetic oil. My car was just 663 KM old then.
After coming back home and finding this thread, I realized that synthetics are not good for the running-in period and one should start using them only after 10,000 - 15,000 KM.
Now, my car's first paid service is drawing near and it has still done only about 1200 KM. I need advice from my fellow BHPians on whether it will be a good idea to switch back to mineral oil after using synthetic 0w40 for over 600 KMs and 1 year.

[sgiitk]

@powervidFE; My own view is that synthetics are best put in after 10-20,000km so that the motor is run-in. However, on my Civic which came with synth I just stuck with it. Also, if your car s happy with SAE30 then why go for SAE40 (2% loss in FE). Indemitsu / Honda do have 0W30 synth.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Grr7

I would prefer to get the engine oil and filter changed at 5k intervals with mineral oil instead of sticking to synthetic for 10k km. Changing of mineral oil at every 5k km would still come out to be substantially cheaper than the synthetic oil change at 10k km interval.

If you are using the car in the city largely, this change will also be better for the engine. Synthetics don't hold the resultant contaminants of short duration use any better than minerals.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@powervidFE; My own view is that synthetics are best put in after 10-20,000km so that the motor is run-in. However, on my Civic which came with synth I just stuck with it. Also, if your car s happy with SAE30 then why go for SAE40 (2% loss in FE). Indemitsu / Honda do have 0W30 synth.

Sgiitk Sir,

The new cars for example Swift DDIS comes with factory filled synthetic oil (5W40) so I have a doubt, isn't it bad for new engine that is not run-in to be running on synthetic oil?!

My SA says mineral oil is not required/recommended for the new engine due to some 'Laser technology' that is being used which works best with synthetic oil. I was looking at him with one raised eyebrows.

Is this money making technique or what?

Anurag.

[csateesh]

Originally Posted by powerwidFE

SA convinced my father to put in synthetic oil and filled in Mobil1 0w40 synthetic oil. My car was just 663 KM old then.

synthetics are not good for the running-in period and one should start using them only after 10,000 - 15,000 KM.

I need advice from my fellow BHPians on whether it will be a good idea to switch back to mineral oil after using synthetic 0w40 for over 600 KMs and 1 year.

@powerwidFE - I drive an Accent CRDi that is 95k kms old. I changed to Delvac 1 from the day it crossed 1k kms. Everytime a friend returned from US / UK / Europe I got a Delvac 1 can

Yes the engine does open up later but there is no harm in running synthetic from day 1.

Since the car's usage is minimal which will probably be only for short drives recommend Synthetic anyday over minerals if you don't mind the extra cost as the synthetics are supposed to provide the best protection at start up !!

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@powervidFE; My own view is that synthetics are best put in after 10-20,000km so that the motor is run-in. However, on my Civic which came with synth I just stuck with it. Also, if your car s happy with SAE30 then why go for SAE40 (2% loss in FE). Indemitsu / Honda do have 0W30 synth.

@powerwidFE - And as sgiitk suggests pls. ensure that the ratings / oil grades are correct

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

1. The new cars for example Swift DDIS comes with factory filled synthetic oil (5W40) so I have a doubt, isn't it bad for new engine that is not run-in to be running on synthetic oil?!

2. My SA says mineral oil is not required/recommended for the new engine due to some 'Laser technology' that is being used which works best with synthetic oil. I was looking at him with one raised eyebrows.

3. Is this money making technique or what?

1. No damage will come with sticking to synth. Only the run in will be prolonged. (Hopefully?) the manufacturer should know the best.
2. Not necessarily. See the manual for the grades and specs. As long as you meet / exceed that you should be Ok. I will be surprised if a modern engine is not happy with SAE30! For best economy use the lowest allowed SAE.
3. I am not too sure. I worked out that Honda semi- with six monthly change and synth with an annual change work out to be the same, give or take a couple of hundred rupees.

[Sridhar K]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Sgiitk Sir,

The new cars for example Swift DDIS comes with factory filled synthetic oil (5W40) so I have a doubt, isn't it bad for new engine that is not run-in to be running on synthetic oil?!

My SA says mineral oil is not required/recommended for the new engine due to some 'Laser technology' that is being used which works best with synthetic oil. I was looking at him with one raised eyebrows.

Is this money making technique or what?

Anurag.

My experience with the Swift ZDi and Manza (both came with synthetic from factory) is that the run in was delayed. I changed to mineral at 10k with Manza and the vehicle opened up within 2000 odd kms of the oil change. Swift did not open up until 15k when I changed to mineral. I got the oil changed at 10k first time for both the vehicles.

[shashi63]

Hello Sridhar,

I own a Manza Club Class VX and now in its 7 month.. Just nearing the 15000Km mark and due for its Third Free Service. The engine opened up half way through a trip to Nashik / Shirdi nearing the 10K mark and FE shot up after that considerably. I called up my Tata Authorised Service Centre and they went by book and recommended an Oil change at 15000 plus Wheel Alignment, Wheel balancing and Tyre Rotation..

here are a couple of links which gives a complete break down as well as the price for the Third Service ( for Manza) ..

http://customercare.tatamotors.com/r.../recomProd.asp

http://www.cardekho.com/tata-manza/service-cost.htm

Hope this helps..

Regards
Shashi

Originally Posted by Sridhar K

My experience with the Swift ZDi and Manza (both came with synthetic from factory) is that the run in was delayed. I changed to mineral at 10k with Manza and the vehicle opened up within 2000 odd kms of the oil change. Swift did not open up until 15k when I changed to mineral. I got the oil changed at 10k first time for both the vehicles.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Sridhar K

My experience with the Swift ZDi and Manza (both came with synthetic from factory) is that the run in was delayed. I changed to mineral at 10k with Manza and the vehicle opened up within 2000 odd kms of the oil change. Swift did not open up until 15k when I changed to mineral. I got the oil changed at 10k first time for both the vehicles.

My Swift ZDi is just 1 month and 10 days old and has done 3508 kms, I will be doing the first oil change at 5K after they service the car. I am thinking to go in for mineral oil this time to see how the car performs.

Anurag.