ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by anycatd

I think Maruti does use Liqui Moly cleaning products. The name should be familiar to them.

Where do we get the oil filter?

Yes Maruti sells Liqui Moly's cleaning products in MGA. Try to convince your SA about using Liqui Moly in Brezza. If he agrees, go ahead. If not, use whatever he tells you to.

If you ever wish to do the oil change on your own, you can contact MGP distributor for filter. They'll happily sell it to you.

Regards,
Shashi

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by anycatd

I think Maruti does use Liqui Moly cleaning products. The name should be familiar to them.

Well, that's good then. The name won't sound completely alien.

I completely forgot about what the SA might think about my decision and the warranty issues. I'll be talking to the SA a couple of weeks before my service due date. Hopefully I can get things done as I have been planning for a year.

I'd suggest following his recommendation only for the sake of your warranty.

Where do we get the oil filter? Thinking of doing it for our second car, a f10d WagonR. Have already discussed about the oil choices with @Leoshashi.

The good thing about Maruti is their willingness to sell parts over the counter. This is from my experience with 2 Esteems one from 1995 and the other from 2000.

Even if they don't agree to sell OTC all you need to do is get your own oil (for the "Waggy" which is what I call the Wagon R ) and ask them to do the oil and filter change for you. One can also buy filters outside from trustworthy auto parts dealers. Just make sure they also replace the 'crush washer' on the drain bolt.

That's what I do with my car. Provide the oil and ask the dealer to use all other parts from their OEM list. I remember when one of these Service advisor blokes asked me why SHU and I simply pointed out to the Ferrari emblem on the SHU can and said "If it works for a Ferrari it sure as heck will work for this car" He grinned and agreed.

[Rama Naveen]

Guys couple of months ago I switched from Mineral to Semi-synthetic oil in my petrol car.

As per the GTO Link statement-
If you do decide to change, only go up the scale. If you've been running around on synthetic, don't change down to a mineral-based oil - your engine might not be able to cope with the degradation in lubrication. Consequently, if you've been using mineral oil, try a semi or a full synthetic oil. By degradation, I'm speaking of the wear tolerances that an engine develops based on the oil that it's using. Thicker mineral oils mean thicker layers of oil coating the moving parts (by microns though). Switching to a thinner synthetic oil can cause piston rings to leak and in some very rare cases, piston slap or crank vibration.

Does this mean, for lifelong I have to either stick to Semi-Synthetic or Full Synthetic and is there no way I can switch back to Mineral oil ?

Or I have to use Engine flush and then use Mineral Oil ?

Did anyone try using Mineral oil and then Adding "Nulon E25 Engine treatment" combination ?

[hserus]

Please don't use engine additives

Semi synthetic is fairly cheap these days and it shouldn't be more than a few hundred rupees over mineral oil. So stick with it.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by hserus

Please don't use engine additives

Semi synthetic is fairly cheap these days and it shouldn't be more than a few hundred rupees over mineral oil. So stick with it.

Agree 100%. Use as many additives as you wish in the fuel, and addi Liqui-Moly to the gearbox, and maybe a can of 'Bars Leaks' or equivalent in the cooling system. However, for me the lube system is a big no-no. Maybe I once tried to add a can of Teflon additive to the engine (it was losing some gases from the bearings) of my Fiat (rather Premier Padmini DX), and ended up with a broken crankshaft within a couple of weeks. This reinforced my views.

An engine oil is a sophisticated mix of many components, so it is better to trust the manufacturer. I agree that lube oil (esp semi-synth) is quite cheap and just stick with a decent oil.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Rama Naveen

Does this mean, for lifelong I have to either stick to Semi-Synthetic or Full Synthetic and is there no way I can switch back to Mineral oil ?

Stick to semi synthetic, as others have said there's not much of a price difference between it and mineral. Besides I've found semi synthetic to hit a kind of a sweet spot in terms of price/performance.

Or I have to use Engine flush and then use Mineral Oil ?

I would not recommend using engine flush for any reason other than to treat an engine with a high amount of sludge caused mainly by not changing engine oil on time.

Did anyone try using Mineral oil and then Adding "Nulon E25 Engine treatment" combination ?

Trust me, stay far, far away from this Nulon stuff. I first tried it in my bike in the late 80s. In most cases I consider it snake oil and then there may be detrimental effects too.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Trust me, stay far, far away from this Nulon stuff. I first tried it in my bike in the late 80s. In most cases I consider it snake oil and then there may be detrimental effects too.

That is exactly the type of stuff I used in my Padmini. Unlike the Amby the Padmini was not known to break the crankshafts. So I have strong doubts.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

That is exactly the type of stuff I used in my Padmini.

Until I read your crankshaft issue, I didn't realize that these additives can be dangerous too. My experience with these engine additives has also been mostly bad, except in one case where it did really work(fingers crossed ).

1. Bajaj XCD 135- This is the bike I learnt to ride on, and like most overenthusiastic teenagers, it did receive a lot of useless pampering. One day while casually strolling around in Reliance AutoZone, I came across a product with the name Nano Energizer. It claimed some very magical things like increase in power, mileage and what not, so I didn't think twice before using it.

Product used-Nano Energizer

Aftermath- Within less than 100kms of using it, my 2000kms run brand new bike gave up its ghost. Something broke inside, and the engine sounded like it has gravels inside the combustion chamber.

Luckily, BAJAJ replaced the block-piston kit under warranty.

2. Honda CBR 150- I had this bike in college, and it was used by 4 of my friends too. It was a common bike for us, so the maintenance responsibilities were also shared. This time my friend fell for Nulon oil treatment, soon, the bike lost all its power, and it was diagnosed that it needed engine overhaul. Honda wasn't as generous as Bajaj, and we being students didn't have the moolah to get it repaired. So my friend, who was the owner, sold it and got an Apache, which remained with us for rest of the college life.

Product used-Nulon

3. Hyundai Elite i20- The dealer added this thing twice to inflate the bill, and we refused to pay for it both the times. IIRC, they used Wuerth additive, and the car was working properly without any issues till we sold it, so I guess it was a neutral additive. It didn't make any difference either.

4. Maruti 800- I used Liqui Moly's Ceratec additive, in addition to their Fully Synthetic engine oil, and this is the only additive which made some positive difference to the engine. But it costs a bomb too-Rs. 2500 for 300ml of additive. The differences which I could make out were smoother sounding engine, and a substantial 2kmpl increase in mileage. I have driven around 5500kms after the additive was poured in, and no issues till now. Even the compression has increased, so I guess it works as it claims.

Apart from these, I have used Gearbox additive from Liqui Moly, and it did make a significant difference in the shift quality. I can confidently say that it works.

But I'll think twice before adding any additive in my engine, specially after your Padmini's Crankshaft incident.

Regards,
Shashi

[Sawyer]

Many people find better running engines right after moving to synthetic oil or magic additives. Since it is very hard to do, no one does what a scientist would insist on doing to determine if these experiences are valid.

Which is to compare two identical model cars that are in similar mechanical condition, and have both fully serviced in the same garage in exactly the same way, with only one variable: the oil used for the change, with both oils being not spurious and of the same recommended for the car grade, but only one being synthetic. And then have the driver pick the car that has the synthetic oil in it, without knowing which car that is. Obviously this would be done for such cars that allow the use of mineral oil as long as the grade is right.

In the absence of such a protocol, chances of expectation bias driving perceptions are extremely high. Something to keep in mind.

Expectation/Confirmation bias is common to every human and is fully exploited by clever marketing. Now there is nothing wrong in being willingly exploited, and it can even be enjoyable, if one can afford the extra price charged that is the reason for why cleverly done marketing is needed in the first place to set up the conditions for the bias to arise such that this price can be extracted painlessly.

In the world of medicine, this is called the placebo effect. But there this effect can be very real as well because the health of the body is often heavily influenced by the enormous power of the mind. However, this mind/body connection does not extend to one's automobile.

[roby_dk]

I switched from mineral to fully synthetic in my safari around 60k. I felt a nice improvement in performance,lesser engine noise,smooth acceleration and the after service effect lasted for a longer period.

But last year after recommendation from TASS Bangalore I tried mineral oil around 130k keeping in mind that I will change oil twice in 15k interval as suggested by TASS.

But just after 2-3k km run I felt my decision was wrong. I switched back to fully synthetic again around 135k again after moving to Delhi.

For me driving with synthetic is better if not best.

[CarMaster]

Hello, i am currently using Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 fully synthetic oil in my 2012 laura 2.0 tdi dsg. Iam pretty happy with the oil. Can the same oil be used in the 2007 Skoda octavia 1.9 tdi rider too?

[sgiitk]

Irrespctive of what we hear I went through the mineral to semi- to full synth switches in the early days when full synth was often not available regularly. This happened with my Esteem (carb). Did not really feel any degradation in either direction. I sold the car at about 65,000km with no ill effects. I know the chap who bought it drove at least another 100k km!

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by CarMaster

Hello, i am currently using Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 fully synthetic oil in my 2012 laura 2.0 tdi dsg. Iam pretty happy with the oil. Can the same oil be used in the 2007 Skoda octavia 1.9 tdi rider too?

AFAIK Skoda uses Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 synthetic as its standard factory and service fill. I'd recommend you stick to 5W-40.

Please check the ambient temperature range v/s the recommended grade and API classification in your car manual and stick to whatever Skoda recommends. If the manual specifies 5W-30 your engine then you could go ahead and fill Mobil 1 5W-30. This applies to both the Laura and Octavia.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by CarMaster

Hello, i am currently using Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 fully synthetic oil in my 2012 laura 2.0 tdi dsg. Iam pretty happy with the oil. Can the same oil be used in the 2007 Skoda octavia 1.9 tdi rider too?

Originally Posted by R2D2

AFAIK Skoda uses Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 synthetic as its standard factory and service fill. I'd recommend you stick to 5W-40.

Please check the ambient temperature range v/s the recommended grade and API classification in your car manual and stick to whatever Skoda recommends. If the manual specifies 5W-30 your engine then you could go ahead and fill Mobil 1 5W-30. This applies to both the Laura and Octavia.

Spot on R2D2, check with your car handbook. Is the use of SAE30 kosher? I guess the grade should be Ok. If so then go ahead. You may even save some fuel (3-5%) as compared to SAE40.

[SunnyBoi]

I was running Motul 8100 Xcess on my Cedia and completed a full 15000KMs (exceeded that number by couple of hundred KMs) before putting in a new filter and oil.

Here's how the oil filter looked. Do note this filter actually belongs to a 18hp tractor, installed at Mitsubishi ASS



Even the filter was pretty clean. I could find small gritty particles when I went through the pleats, however it was much much cleaner with no fibrous/sludge inside the oil filter.

Just opened the oil fill cap this morning to top up the oil to max level and I was just amazed on how clean the insides were! There is zero discoloration, even on the aluminium parts, forget any trace of black sludge.







Reignofchaos the previous owner has been running the car only on Full SYnthetic oil, specifically Motul 8100 X-Cess since 2011 on this car. I've gone with 8100 X-Max this time since I couldn't find X-Cess on sale when I bought the oil.

This just reinforces my belief of using the best engine oil in your car, cost no bar. The benefits are certainly worth the extra price.