[chetan5678]

Originally Posted by guptavis

really? i thought HX6 is for diesel. Are you sure you used HX6 or did you mean HX7?

hi,i am really sorry you are right ,its shell helix HX7 blue colour bottle.thanks

[guptad42]

On a recent US trip, I realised that the price differential on full synthetics like Mobil 1 is even higher than the latest electronics and techie gadgets. I found Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W40 in the $23-27 range at several retailers for a 5 quart container (about 4.7 Litres). Locals said you can find it below $20 sometime on sales. And these weren't 1-2 year stock as I often see on the shelves in India.

That's Rs 1000 to 1200 approx for nearly 4.7 liters of mobil 1 fully synthetic oil with special additives for use in older engines! Most authorised service centers charge that much for a normal mineral oil change. And fully synth oils tend to be > Rs 1,000 per litre.

So, why are synthetic oils so expensive in India? Does the govt charge duries and taxes on the lubes, like fuels? The crude import duties aren't that high.

Near US retail prices for synthetics, a castrol or exxon mobil can set up a dedicated India plant and just kill the market for convetional oils, capturing a long-term dominant position in a major growth market.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by guptad42

On a recent US trip, I realised that the price differential on full synthetics like Mobil 1 is even higher than the latest electronics and techie gadgets. I found Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W40 in the $23-27 range at several retailers for a 5 quart container (about 4.7 Litres). Locals said you can find it below $20 sometime on sales. And these weren't 1-2 year stock as I often see on the shelves in India.

That's Rs 1000 to 1200 approx for nearly 4.7 liters of mobil 1 fully synthetic oil with special additives for use in older engines! Most authorised service centers charge that much for a normal mineral oil change. And fully synth oils tend to be > Rs 1,000 per litre.

So, why are synthetic oils so expensive in India? Does the govt charge duries and taxes on the lubes, like fuels? The crude import duties aren't that high.

Near US retail prices for synthetics, a castrol or exxon mobil can set up a dedicated India plant and just kill the market for convetional oils, capturing a long-term dominant position in a major growth market.

When I was in the US, the dealer used to charge me 25$ for an oil change (normal mineral oil). I am pretty sure almost all dealers in India charge the same or more more than this. This is even considering that fact that labour is cheaper in India than in the US.

Other than this, Goodyear's Oil Change Stores used to send me coupons for 15$ or 20$ for oil change. Many of these coupons also included a free tyre rotation thrown in with the oil change.

I assume that the difference is because oil is taxed much less in USA than in India, but I am not sure about this.

About synthetics, other than people using it for premium reasons a lot of frugal people in the USA also use synthetics because it increases the oil change interval - i.e. they use it to save money. That's why you find synthetic oil change being offered even in low end places like Walmart oil change centers.


EDIT: I checked the current oil change prices at my dealers website.

• Oil & Filter Change - up to 5 quarts, additional oil extra
• $36.95 - regular oil
• $46.95 - synthetic blend
• $66.95 - synthetic

This is for any car you bring there - though they were mainly dealers for Mazda, Chevrolet and Saturn.

[guptad42]

Originally Posted by carboy

...
I assume that the difference is because oil is taxed much less in USA than in India, but I am not sure about this.
...
About synthetics, other than people using it for premium reasons a lot of frugal people in the USA also use synthetics because it increases the oil change interval - i.e. they use it to save money. That's why you find synthetic oil change being offered even in low end places like Walmart oil change centers.

EDIT: I checked the current oil change prices at my dealers website.

• Oil & Filter Change - up to 5 quarts, additional oil extra
• $36.95 - regular oil
• $46.95 - synthetic blend
• $66.95 - synthetic

This is for any car you bring there - though they were mainly dealers for Mazda, Chevrolet and Saturn.

That's what I'm trying to clarify with the Team BHP - is the price higher here just because of higher taxes, or is it becuase the oil cos haven't seriously looked at India as a potentially major consumer of synthetic oil and volumes are low.

The economy view of sythetic - saving money with longer change intervals - that's exactly what should be promoted in India (along with better protection) but it cannot be done at current sythetic oil prices here.

A better comparison of prices may be for US retail to India retail, as it removes the labour costs from the equation. I did a quick check on walmart: It's currently available for $26 for a 5 quart (4.73 L) container.
Walmart.com: Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5qt: Automotive

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by guptad42

is the price higher here just because of higher taxes, or is it becuase the oil cos haven't seriously looked at India as a potentially major consumer of synthetic oil and volumes are low.

A better comparison of prices may be for US retail to India retail, as it removes the labour costs from the equation.

Originally Posted by carboy

About synthetics, other than people using it for premium reasons a lot of frugal people in the USA also use synthetics because it increases the oil change interval - i.e. they use it to save money. That's why you find synthetic oil change being offered even in low end places like Walmart oil change centers.

EDIT: I checked the current oil change prices at my dealers website.

• Oil & Filter Change - up to 5 quarts, additional oil extra
• $36.95 - regular oil
• $46.95 - synthetic blend
• $66.95 - synthetic

Petroleum products are subjected to very high taxes in India, a comparison of the price of petrol in India and the US is an indicator. Current US prices are around about $3.5/gallon (see gasbuddy.com) which is about Rs 46.17/litre. Compare that to the Rs 72 I pay at the petrol pump which makes our petrol purchases 56% more expensive than in the US.

But the grass is not always greener on the other side. With some exceptions like Delhi/NCR, commuting distances are lower in India which translates to lower outgoings on fuel and maintenance. And we use smaller cars with smaller engines. Of course, UK retail petrol prices (like most things in UK and Europe), are comparatively exorbitant - GBP 1.4 to 1.5/litre (Rs 110 to 119/litre) with diesel at the nearly the same price.

In India, synthetics are priced way higher than mineral because of:

a) Local taxes and duties
b) Customs duties - synthetic oils are imported from factories in S'pore, Qatar and other areas in MEA and APAC.
c) Manufacturers' and distribution channel margins.

I paid approx Rs 3,100/ @ the distributor for a 4 litre (4.22 US Quarts) can of Shell Helix Ultra which is about US$ 15.5/litre or US$ 14.69/quart. Add another $7 for an oil filter and $8 for labour with taxes at the authorised dealer - total cost of an oil change with synthetic is $77. About $10 more than the US retailer's quote of $66.9 for an oil change with synthetic. Not bad at all given the disparities in petrol prices.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by R2D2

I paid approx Rs 3,100/ @ the distributor for a 4 litre (4.22 US Quarts) can of Shell Helix Ultra which is about US$ 15.5/litre or US$ 14.69/quart. Add another $7 for an oil filter and $8 for labour with taxes at the authorised dealer - total cost of an oil change with synthetic is $77. About $10 more than the US retailer's quote of $66.9 for an oil change with synthetic. Not bad at all given the disparities in petrol prices.

The price I quoted was a dealer. Is yours also at a dealer? I think it would be much cheaper outside a goodyear or somewhere.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by carboy

The price I quoted was a dealer. Is yours also at a dealer? I think it would be much cheaper outside a goodyear or somewhere.

Oil change at a dealer (nobody else services mah car ), and oil purchased from a Shell distributor.

If I had purchased the oil from the dealer (Toyota) and used their 'approved synthetic' oil, add $20/INR 1000 to the total price.

Cheers!

[blackfire_9]

Not true!

The Shell Helix Ultra Extra can be used in a gasoline engine as well. It has an ACEA rating of C2/C3, which is simply aimed at enhancing the service life of various after-treatment devices in an automobile.

Originally Posted by khoj

The 'Ultra Extra' oils are meant for use only in Diesel engines. If your vehicle is diesel powered go ahead.

[devarshi84]

How can one ensure a more cooled engine based on the oil and oil grade?

I find my Bullet C5 bike to heat up a little and expect it to go higher during peak summers so just wanted to take precautions if such an option exists.

[khoj]

Mod Note : There's no need to get rude. Put your argument across in an objective, factual manner. Thanks

Per the same the Ultra Extra is meant for Diesel engines.

shell_helix_grade_selection_guide.pdf

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

Not true!

The Shell Helix Ultra Extra can be used in a gasoline engine as well. It has an ACEA rating of C2/C3, which is simply aimed at enhancing the service life of various after-treatment devices in an automobile.

[blackfire_9]

Thirdly, what I have written is simply based on the ratings that the product carries & their meaning as explained on the ACEA website. And based on the information stated regarding the ACEA ratings, an oil carrying C2/C3 is usable in a gasoline engine also & not unusable as you had mentioned in your earlier posts.

@khoj: Just wanted to add the link to the products page on Shell's India website.

Shell Helix Ultra Extra | India

You would find that the site mentions that this oil has been formulated for high performance gasoline engines & there is in fact no mention of a diesel engine on this page but like you, I won't say that this oil cannot be used in a diesel engine since I chose to understand what the various ratings mean.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

@khoj: Just wanted to add the link to the products page on Shell's India website.

Shell Helix Ultra Extra | India

You would find that the site mentions that this oil has been formulated for high performance gasoline engines & there is in fact no mention of a diesel engine on this page but like you, I won't say that this oil cannot be used in a diesel engine since I chose to understand what the various ratings mean.

The C2/C3 means diesel engine, right?
ACEA C2
ACEA C3

[blackfire_9]

@carboy: Buddy, according to the ACEA website, C2/C3 is simply an oil formulated for enhancing the life of after-treatment devices & can be used in gasoline as well as a diesel engine that can run using low SAPS oil. I have posted the link in this post, please refer to that as well as the Shell website's link I had posted in one of my previous posts.

[Catalyst_delhi]

Changed engine oil to Mobil Super 10w30 in my ford ikon 1.6. Much better than Castrol Edge. Cheaper as well. 1200 rupees for filter and oil (4.5 lit). Recommended is 5w30 but the lower number does not matter.

[Ragul]

Just got Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 for the 4th 20K kms service of my Gypsy King next week. I had not read this thread for a while so did not know that fully synth oils are available @700+ per litre. I paid 800/- per liter from a shell dealer on JC road. So 4ltr cost me 3200/-. The MRP reads 4400/- for a Sept 2011 import.

I've decided not to go for engine flush although the carbible site says fully synth and mineral don't mix at all. I changed to semi synth castrol magnatec during he 3rd free service @10K kms some months back. While I did notice engine break in after 7K kms and 12k kms, recently there has been improvement in smoothness and pickup after 18K kms as well. So I plan to change oils only after 20K kms next although I am a little wary of any sludge removed from the seals owing to fully synth oil cleaning up deposits set in by mineral oils. Hope it doesn't undo the positive side-effects like better sealing resulting from the deposits.

Will update on the results a month down the line.

Cheers
--Ragul