CNG vs LPG Comparision

esteem_lover · 16th March 2007, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by drifter

This is good overview given by GTO.

For more information, do check the first issue of What Car? magazine, it has an investigative report on CNGvLPG by yours truly. Its a bi-monthly issue. Check October-November 2006.

Drifter

How to get hold of this mag? can you share some of the things you discussed in it ?

gigy · 16th March 2007, 15:04

i dont have closed loop. i have open loop as of now to make it closed additional components worth 6k is required as per my installer. there is a seperate ecu for gas control, lambda sensor is pre installed in mpfi cars. stepper motor has to be installed. stepper motor is supposed to operate a flapper valve, think might be a one piece system. have to confirm that

gigy · 16th March 2007, 15:09

my present kit contains
tank
multi valve
changeover switch with led indicator
gas solenoid
vaporaiser
emulator
plumbing & wiring
all cost 17k for installation in sep06. 2k for rto guys extra
At that time he was asking for 6k extra to make it closed loop. he had a set lying with him which he had installed in his car (baleno) but removed since he didnt find any marked performance improvement. that kit he was offering for 6k

GTO · 16th March 2007, 15:41

There are actually piece-meal packages with gas installations? I was expecting to see complete fully-loaded kits....

drifter · 16th March 2007, 16:22

Quote:

How to get hold of this mag? can you share some of the things you discussed in it ?

Contact the Autocar India office: 111 Peninsula Centre, Dr SS Rao Road, Lalbaug, Parel, Mumbai - 400012; tel: 24152727

Im sure they can send you one.

It covers almost everything you need to know before converting to gas, it even gives a pictoral representation of kits and tells about which parts are important for safety and reliability.

Its a good comparison between the two kits and talks about the pros and cons of both.

Drifter

esteem_lover · 18th March 2007, 00:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by drifter

This is good overview given by GTO.

For more information, do check the first issue of What Car? magazine, it has an investigative report on CNGvLPG by yours truly. Its a bi-monthly issue. Check October-November 2006.

Drifter

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

can you share some of the things you discussed in it ?

can you, please ?

scorpio118 · 18th March 2007, 21:50

Wolf,
I've been thru your detailed review of Xeta CNG. In fact I'm also in dilemma between Wagon R petrol or Xeta CNG, and heavily inclined towards Xeta. But few people are saying that CNG, being a dry fuel eats up the engine. Any info on that???

Scorpio118

wolfinstein · 19th March 2007, 23:50

Eats as in..! I had an Oil change done at 10,500 there was no change in level on the dipstick..!

See practically for 3 years, Your car is covered under Manufacturers warranty- So all defects are covered..!

Plus with proper service and regular Oil Change, You have a well maintained car...!

swathyd · 5th April 2007, 13:06

Recently tata dealerships in kerala was offering brc(itly) kits for their cars including fiat. There are two kinds of kits one with ecu and one without it. They claims that the kit with ecu will give better power and mileage than petrol. It costs about rs 35000 and another normal kit costing 21500.

The above said charges are including fitting, they told me that warranty will prevail even after conversion.

Does anybody thing that what they claim about the ecu is crrect or will it be a simple wastage of money.

raajks · 5th April 2007, 13:24

Hi,
I would like to add my thoughts to the existing thread.
Like Esteem Lover pointed out, The initail run with LPG or CNG on an ESteem can be extremely painful.

Leaving the endoresements aside...Here are a few pointers.
LPG is a cheaper fuel than petrol, but you will have constantly tune it till you reach a point of perfection...As the mileage that you would get would be less. The first cylinder that I used gave me 100, After numerous tunes..it gave me 173 and then after a good tune-up I managed to 190 KMS / 18 KG cylinder.

Another point to keep in mind is the flow of gas to the engine. This is extremely important, At high speeds especially during highway travels...The cylinder cools off pretty fast and if you shift from 5th to 3rd to slow down..Engine cuts off...So you need to make sure that you heating element is intact and working.

The gas when it settles down on the convertor leaves WAX residues..SO if you are person who is a sparse user of the car, avoid LPG/CNG as you might have reduced efficieny and spend quite a bit of your time cleaning the filter and the gas condensor and convertor.

It is extremely important to go for authorised and recognised LPG convertors, DO NOT go for local ones, They may appear to cost effective at the begining but the maintainance and efficieny would be low

esteem_lover · 5th April 2007, 13:33

I think what he meant is one for the MPFI cars which come with the ECU & the other is for the carb cars without the ECU. i dont think the kit itself has a ECU.

gigy · 6th April 2007, 14:41

esteem lover,
lpg kit comes with ecu of its own and that is what should be installed in any mpfi car. kits without ecu are ment for carb cars only, however in india we are still continuing to use the crude system without ecu on mpfi cars, and spoiling the cat converter and getting lower mileage than possible.

mail4ajo · 6th April 2007, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by swathyd

Recently tata dealerships in kerala was offering brc(itly) kits for their cars including fiat.

This is the closed loop system that dealer is mentioning. Regular kits are just openloop system which can damage the cat. BRC has the "just system" which cost Rs. 30000+. This will ensure that the car runs almost like it does on Petrol.

However a simple option is available to add the ECU, Lambda sensor and Stepper motor and convert to closed loop. Cost an additional Rs 6000.

nitrous · 6th April 2007, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfenstein

Eats as in..! I had an Oil change done at 10,500 there was no change in level on the dipstick..!

LPG is a drier fuel than Petrol and it does not lubricate the valves as much as Petrol does.
'ksethuram',a chennai member is running his Swift ZXi on LPG(BRC kit)and researched th net about the above theory and it was true.He told me just that. I checked with a couple of experts and they confirmed. This is why LPG run cars have engine heads requiring overhaul at around 80000 kms.There is a product that can counter this problem.Its called a 'Valve saver kit' and the brand I know of is 'FlashLube' from Australia.

Also, another problem that he's facing is with Spark plugs wearing out fast.

esteem_lover · 6th April 2007, 21:49

Funny you should say this nitrous. I have driven my previous car M-1000 for more than 80k Kms without the engine needing any overhaul & have never had to change spark plugs frequently too. How many KMs has sethuram driven ? & does he not use petrol occassionally ?

16th March 2007, 15:04	#47
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	i dont have closed loop. i have open loop as of now to make it closed additional components worth 6k is required as per my installer. there is a seperate ecu for gas control, lambda sensor is pre installed in mpfi cars. stepper motor has to be installed. stepper motor is supposed to operate a flapper valve, think might be a one piece system. have to confirm that
	() Thanks

16th March 2007, 15:09	#48
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	my present kit contains tank multi valve changeover switch with led indicator gas solenoid vaporaiser emulator plumbing & wiring all cost 17k for installation in sep06. 2k for rto guys extra At that time he was asking for 6k extra to make it closed loop. he had a set lying with him which he had installed in his car (baleno) but removed since he didnt find any marked performance improvement. that kit he was offering for 6k
	() Thanks

16th March 2007, 15:41	#49
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,501 Thanked: 300,629 Times View My Garage	There are actually piece-meal packages with gas installations? I was expecting to see complete fully-loaded kits....
	() Thanks

18th March 2007, 21:50	#52
scorpio118 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 46 Thanked: 5 Times	Wolf, I've been thru your detailed review of Xeta CNG. In fact I'm also in dilemma between Wagon R petrol or Xeta CNG, and heavily inclined towards Xeta. But few people are saying that CNG, being a dry fuel eats up the engine. Any info on that??? Scorpio118
	() Thanks

19th March 2007, 23:50	#53
wolfinstein BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 994 Thanked: 20 Times	Eats as in..! I had an Oil change done at 10,500 there was no change in level on the dipstick..! See practically for 3 years, Your car is covered under Manufacturers warranty- So all defects are covered..! Plus with proper service and regular Oil Change, You have a well maintained car...!
	() Thanks

5th April 2007, 13:06	#54
swathyd BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: thiruvananthapuram Posts: 774 Thanked: 25 Times	Recently tata dealerships in kerala was offering brc(itly) kits for their cars including fiat. There are two kinds of kits one with ecu and one without it. They claims that the kit with ecu will give better power and mileage than petrol. It costs about rs 35000 and another normal kit costing 21500. The above said charges are including fitting, they told me that warranty will prevail even after conversion. Does anybody thing that what they claim about the ecu is crrect or will it be a simple wastage of money.
	() Thanks

5th April 2007, 13:24	#55
raajks BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: BLR Posts: 578 Thanked: 119 Times View My Garage	Hi, I would like to add my thoughts to the existing thread. Like Esteem Lover pointed out, The initail run with LPG or CNG on an ESteem can be extremely painful. Leaving the endoresements aside...Here are a few pointers. LPG is a cheaper fuel than petrol, but you will have constantly tune it till you reach a point of perfection...As the mileage that you would get would be less. The first cylinder that I used gave me 100, After numerous tunes..it gave me 173 and then after a good tune-up I managed to 190 KMS / 18 KG cylinder. Another point to keep in mind is the flow of gas to the engine. This is extremely important, At high speeds especially during highway travels...The cylinder cools off pretty fast and if you shift from 5th to 3rd to slow down..Engine cuts off...So you need to make sure that you heating element is intact and working. The gas when it settles down on the convertor leaves WAX residues..SO if you are person who is a sparse user of the car, avoid LPG/CNG as you might have reduced efficieny and spend quite a bit of your time cleaning the filter and the gas condensor and convertor. It is extremely important to go for authorised and recognised LPG convertors, DO NOT go for local ones, They may appear to cost effective at the begining but the maintainance and efficieny would be low
	() Thanks

5th April 2007, 13:33	#56
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	I think what he meant is one for the MPFI cars which come with the ECU & the other is for the carb cars without the ECU. i dont think the kit itself has a ECU.
	() Thanks

6th April 2007, 14:41	#57
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	esteem lover, lpg kit comes with ecu of its own and that is what should be installed in any mpfi car. kits without ecu are ment for carb cars only, however in india we are still continuing to use the crude system without ecu on mpfi cars, and spoiling the cat converter and getting lower mileage than possible.
	() Thanks

6th April 2007, 21:49	#60
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 502 Times View My Garage	Funny you should say this nitrous. I have driven my previous car M-1000 for more than 80k Kms without the engine needing any overhaul & have never had to change spark plugs frequently too. How many KMs has sethuram driven ? & does he not use petrol occassionally ?
	() Thanks