[ebonho]

Originally Posted by basuroy

I have a Jk tire puncture kit but no practical knowledge of procedure

The most critical thing in repairing a tubeles puncture is drilling the hole along/through the length of the puncture tract and not at an angle to it. That is where the experience, judgment and skill bit comes in. Otherwise in a pinch, even you can do it yourself. But rarely if ever will you get the tract matching 100%.

[Silverflash]

Originally Posted by ebonho

But it did! The moment the company shifted to FI, the entire character and beat of the bike simply changed. Less generous guys than me have likened the new UCEs to big Karizmas that only look like Bullets. Even the CV carb on the AVLs changed the character of the VM slide carbed cast iron thumpers. But that was easier (and very frequently)

I hear you, ebonho, but I'm not talking about whether the new UCEs are the same as the old CIs. I'm simply saying that the changes like fuel injection, while ending the days of the "real Bullet engine" for purists, still retain enough of what is associated with the Bullet to draw in non-purists, who are the majority market for RE today.

That's simply how they sell. Whether you think the new engines are "real Bullet engines" is besides the point for RE - they are engines that come with that long stroke thump (maybe muted, maybe different, but there all the same), engines that come mounted on bikes that look pretty similar to what they have thrown out for decades, and perform pretty much the same as they did all those decades ago.

And you know what? That's why they sell - because, even with all the modern touches like FI or UCE or right side brake levers or what not, for the average biker today, they are still pretty much the same as they were all those years ago. RE is not catering to Bullet purists any more, just as no manufacturer is catering to 2-stroke purists any more. They are selling nostalgia, wrapped into slightly more reliable packages, with traces of what distinguished them through the years.

As for 7-8 engines, yer 'avin a larf. There's 2 engines that RE is popularly associated with: the 350 and 500 cc Bullet engines, period. Everything they've put out there over the decades in India has been based off these two. Where are the other distinct base engines apart from these two?

Again, I don't fault RE's strategy as a business. If the nostalgia packaged up in a slick marketing campaign sells, they have every right to pursue it, which they are doing now.

I only question the basis on which people expect them to make radically different bikes in the near future, when the furthest they've diverged from their Standard Bullet model is the Thunderbird or the GT. For all the touted differences, those acorns haven't fallen very far from the tree, have they?

If this is the furthest leftfield they could go after all these years, those hoping for overhead cams, higher rev limits, twin cylinders etc. have a long wait ahead.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by basuroy

have read about mushroom plugs , any cheap "jugaad" alternative that the puncture guy might try to use I should be worried about ?

I have a Jk tire puncture kit but no practical knowledge of procedure , it has those red/maroon colored strips(significantly thicker than this puncture) , are they better in any sense ? I am asking because the shops here are very primitive compared to the metros and they may not have the shroom plugs , if it is crucial that I use that particular mode of repair , I will first scout until I find a place which does it like that(or is it the standard procedure ? excuse my complete lack of idea regarding this ).

Bro! Stop freaking out. Its just a puncture. As long as your city has cars running on tubeless tyres, there will be competent 'puncher repaur' waalaahs who can plug the puncture well. As per my experience even the most remotest puncture repair guys know how to do it.

And there are tons of youtube videos that explains the tubeless puncture repair procedure. You can easily do it yourself. If you have the kit with you already, I would suggest you to try it out yourself.

PS: 600th post!! Damn, I am getting old!

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The most critical thing in repairing a tubeles puncture is drilling the hole along/through the length of the puncture tract and not at an angle to it. That is where the experience, judgment and skill bit comes in. Otherwise in a pinch, even you can do it yourself. But rarely if ever will you get the tract matching 100%.

Thank you sir as that was something I was not aware of and not told when I received the cursory instruction from the vendor . Just pumped the rear to 35psi(extra 5 to compensate for any loss ) , I will be leaving soon and any "jugaad" method ( as in cheap alternative) that I should be wary of and avoid ?

Also this drilling you refer to is normally done to an acceptable level by those in this line of work or should I take care (by first scouting for a reputed shop at least visually, the one near my place is quite shabby , no idea about work ) here too ?

@Man Of Steel
Thank you for the reassurance(and I forgot all about cars lol , of course any car shop should be good enough ) , I know I am freaking out a lot but being a complete illiterate in this aspect didn't help either , thanks to you though for the reassurance and will now leave to get it fixed . First time let it be the trained mech , second time or third I will attempt it if I can gather sufficient confidence .

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Silverflash

That's simply how they sell. Whether you think the new engines are "real Bullet engines" is besides the point for RE - they are engines that come with that long stroke thump (maybe muted, maybe different, but there all the same), engines that come mounted on bikes that look pretty similar to what they have thrown out for decades, and perform pretty much the same as they did all those decades ago.

I'm sorry but I could not disagree more with the part bolded. They are simply not the same.

Ride a cast iron Bullet. Then ride an LB, preferably with a round slide VM carb.

Then ride a UCE.

They are not remotely similar. Am talking as a biker here. Not remotely interested in how the company thinks or what it does or why it does it.

As for 7-8 engines, yer 'avin a larf. There's 2 engines that RE is popularly associated with: the 350 and 500 cc Bullet engines, period. Everything they've put out there over the decades in India has been based off these two. Where are the other distinct base engines apart from these two?

PRE_- WAR BRITISH

Cast Iron 350

Cast Iron 500 / 535 (SWEDISH) (you can count these as one, most of us who have ridden both would say they are completely different beasts)

AUSTRIAN

A350 (the first AVL 350 problem motors)

AVL 350 (the improved versions on the later Machismos and Thunderbirds - lots of changes from the earlier lemons - enough to count as a new engine actually, but we can count them as one and the same if you want)

LB 500

UK (MODERN)

UCE 350

UCE 500 / 535 (again, there are enough and more changes on the 535 here to warrant categorization as a different engine - but you could count them as one)

The above is engines.

Then let's talk gearboxes ......

And after all of this, this is what has changed in the past decade (20014 to 1014) when comparing the CI 500 of 2004 with the UCE 500 of 2014:

20% improvement in fuel efficiency (ON ROAD)

18% improvement in power (ON PAPER)

19% improvement in torque (ON PAPER)

4% increase in top speed (ON ROAD)

160% increase in cost (IN POCKET)

[mithunvvijayan]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Because I believe that at heart you are still a Bulleteer.

BUT you just bought the wrong Bullet. Because it wasn't a Bullet to begin with.

And then you proceeded to correct that mistake by selling that Bullet. And buying a 390!

When actually you should have instead have been buying the right Bullet.

A real Bullet.

PLEASE for Bullet Baba's sake get rid of the numbers!

What does that super duper new age cutting edge Bullet DO ON THE ROAD what my and VW's decade old cast iron thumpers always did and still do?

You need a Bullet. A real Bullet.

The British made such bikes in the 1950s. We Indians took their designs but still 60 years later with all our modern technology and umpteen contracts to tuning gurus and engine and gearbox manufacturers, we still have not made a bike that can beat what they made

Want a thumper that can do a true ton? Buy a BSA Goldstar. No Indian Bullet still comes even close.

We already have the one Bullet we need. And will keep them.

Yet the Cafe Racer space ship cannot lose from its rear view mirrors a mildly modded 12 year old cast iron bullock cart. Something somewhere is very wrong.

Exactly. What I said before. Tried and tested. ON THE ROAD.

Do wake me up when an Indian Bullet does a true ton stock from the factory.

First of all thanks doc for not losing patience and explaining things clearly.

In the place I was born and brought up (small town in Kerala) the bullets and their riders are quite different.

They still painstakingly search and buy pre 70 models. And then they work their magic. They put the heaviest crank available ( or do some Jugad and tune the engine to a very low rpm). The gold standard is 3 thumps per second in the idle. Then they put a tank which resembles that of the eletra model. They remove all the contents from the exhaust and even put a mudguard( that resembles a duplicate sparco for a car ) and cut a hole in it. The idea is that the exhaust gas should hit the mudguard and make a sound resembling a small cracker. Some even add alloy wheels, a seat almost the size of a sofa and put a lot of chrome. After they are done with it, you can only but look at it in horror. The mutilation will be so complete and irreversible.

I have ridden these bullets. They belch like a steam engine and struggle to even get past 60kmph.

Even if I tried to source an old model, it would already have been heavily modified.

But what I want is what exactly you said. A bullet so nicely tuned and maintained like what you said. And if they can match the performance of a modern bullet, then theres nothing else in the world. Having said that, I don't think I have the knowledge/ experience/network to source a good model and do not know any one who can restore and tune to you guys standards, other than those who can tune Kerala style.

Meanwhile let me update on my 390 stalling problem. I was on my way to the service station when I decided to test my bike again. And the bike as usual stalled. But to my surpise it conjured up a whole new problem, luckily, infront of the SE. Even in warm conditions, it struggled to maintain idle rpm and stalled. The SE tried many times but it stalled continuosly. But I am glad that the symptom cropped up infront of the doctor. He said that it will take atleast two days to get sorted out. I don't mind if they take even a week.

[basuroy]

Got the puncture fixed , rode for about 10 km after the fix and no drop in pressure as per my gauge so that is good . He used the same tools as those in the kit I have and observed the process closely and in a sticky situation , I will be able to do it . He pushed the nail in the tire though before I could ask him to pull it out , don't suppose it will cause any harm .

For potential future punctures -
A person at the shop with a CBR told me about the 'motul tyre repair' spray which as per him is a permanent solution but as per a product description, it is a stop gap for "several hundred kilometers before one can fix the tire in traditional way". Anyone here has any experience using this or something similar ? the procedure was quite weird on paper too involving deflating the tire completely . Is this is same as the liquid solution 'everyone' talks about that one can fill via the valve preemptively and then acts as a permanent sealant during puncture ? if not some suggestions on that .

[ArizonaJim]

basuroy:

The Motul Tyre Repair is similar to the other repairs on the market. It puts a latex sealer into the tire.
As you noted, this is listed as a temporary fix even by the manufacturer and a proper fix needs to be done before the tire can be fully trusted.

For those unfamiliar with the plug kits and their use, here are my thoughts about it.

Speaking of the plug kits (not the sprays), these will provide a permanent fix for tubeless tire which have been punctured by a nail, screw or other small object that did not slice or cut the rubber. Punctures are not really cuts or slices and it is these that the kits are designed to repair.
These repair kits should NOT be used for repairing cuts or punctures in the sidewall(s) of the tire. They should only be used to repair the tread area.

My method of using these plug kits and my comments follow for those of you who have never repaired a tubeless tire flat.

1. You will need a fresh (new) tire repair kit. The adhesive in the small tube often dries up in about a years time making it useless.
You will also need a tire pump or some other way of reinflating the tire.

2. Reinflate the tire before you remove the nail/screw. It doesn't have to be fully inflated but it should be at least to 1/2 of the normal tire pressure.

3. Find the source of the leak. If it is in the tread of the tire, proceed with the repair. If it is in the tire sidewall it is best to fix the tire by installing an inner tube.

4. Using pliers or similar tools, pull the nail/screw part way out of the tire and notice the angle it is following. If you have some chalk or some method of marking the place, it's a good idea to do so. It is very easy to lose the exact location and it is very important that it be known so the new rubber plug can be installed in the correct place.

5. Finish pulling the nail/screw and immediately press the pointed end of the awl (tool) into the hole at the same angle the nail/screw was at.
Push the tool into the tire until the rough, file like area engages the rubber. Then push/pull it back and forth several times. This roughens up the hole making the adhesive work better.

6. The end of the tool has a slot thru it. This is there so the rubber plug can be installed into the tool. Now, install a rubber plug (strip) into the tools slot so an even amount of the strip protrudes from both sides of the tool shank.

7. Open the tube of adhesive and apply a liberal amount to all of the surfaces of the rubber plug. Work fast here because the adhesive will dry rapidly and it must be wet to work properly.

8. Fully insert the tool and rubber plug completely thru the hole in the tire. Then, pull the tool and plug back out until just a small amount of the plug is visible.

9. Twist the tool so the rubber plug disengages from the tool thru the slot in the tools side.

10. Re-inflate the tire. Clean your hands and drive off down the road congratulating yourself on properly fixing the tire.

-------
On another note, I think a deeper discussion of the Royal Enfield should be done on another topic.
This topic should try to limit to discussing owning a KTM Duke 390.

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

basuroy:

Thank you for the comprehensive guideline on how to proceed and it is clear enough in the process you intend to convey , copy pasted the same to a text doc for future reference .

[mithunvvijayan]

Update on my stalling problem.

Went to the service station early morning. They asked me to take the bike for a spin to see if the problem persists. When I took it out, the problem promptly repeated. They said there had been a problem with the spark plug gap and battery terminal, which they rectified. While they test rode it, they didn't get any problem. So I told them I will keep for another two weeks and see. They said if the problem persists, they will replace the stepper motor and see. I agreed.

[sharanvenu]

Is this stepper motor, the DC motor responsible for idle speed control? What did the service engineer say?
Hope this is the bug and replacing it fixes the issue.

[mithunvvijayan]

Originally Posted by sharanvenu

Is this stepper motor, the DC motor responsible for idle speed control? What did the service engineer say?
Hope this is the bug and replacing it fixes the issue.

He didn't say what exactly it is. He mentioned that it maintains the idle rpm. I also hope so At least I am relieved that an option is left open. I will ride my bike for around 2 weeks and if the issue crops up again then will ask them to replace it.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by sharanvenu

Is this stepper motor, the DC motor responsible for idle speed control?

Yes, he was referring to the idle speed control stepper motor.

[Added_flavor]

I have always thought that the idle speed control stepper motor is responsible for the stalling issue. We had a discussion in this thread here.


Also, fellow 390 owner Rahul Mazumder has made an elaborate video on the solution to this issue. Might help you out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwMNGlWuDKE

[zulfi hansi]

This is a little OT but I couldn't find a better thread to ask this. I have seen a first lot 390, one year old, done 12000 kms, verified to be in good condition, rear tyre needs replacement, the owner has done all this mileage on OE Metz. It is available for 1.4L [final price]. What should I do, buy it?