[VW2010]

So on an ABS equipped bike, one should not use the old system of applying the front brakes:- squeeze, then squeeze some more?

There is no cardinal rule. Whatever helps you stop the bike is what matters. The gradual application may take a fraction longer for the brakes to kick in. The sudden pressure on the brake initiates the sequence of sudden deceleration and potentially kicking the ABS. Secondly if the initial skid is what will make the ABS switch on, faster braking can initiate the sequence.

Gravel road: Your choice of shorter stopping (and falling!) distance vs significantly longer stopping distance, but with control.

Gravel roads are usually the places ABS is more hindering effect than benefits. ABS is good in normal roads and probably during rainy day. On gravel roads you are literally riding the bike over balls even with ABS as the bike has very little chance to dig into the gravel.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by VW2010

There is no cardinal rule.

Supposing you were teaching someone to ride on a ABS equipped bike, amongst these two options (grab a handful of brake, or squeeze and then squeeze some more), what would you advise for a rapid stop?

Regards
Sutripta

[Rollin' Thunda]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

So on an ABS equipped bike, one should discard the old system of applying the front brakes:- squeeze, then squeeze some more, and go to 'slam on the brakes' for maximum retardation?

My take on this is NO: you brake exactly as you would on a non-ABS bike, but you can be a little harder on the brake as ABS will kick in to prevent a skid from toppling you. But if ABS does kick in, then you have braked too hard, and will take slightly longer to stop! ABS does not shorten braking distance, it just is a safety back-up which prevents you from falling if you brake too hard ---and skid.

[VW2010]

Supposing you were teaching someone to ride on a ABS equipped bike, amongst these two options (grab a handful of brake, or squeeze and then squeeze some more), what would you advise for a rapid stop

Adding to what rollin thunda, the advice is whatever it takes to rapidly stop the vehicle. Nothing has changed because of ABS. In fact ABS is like the insurance you have to add more life time on a bike. It aids in the process of braking. In a car gradual braking vs rapid braking has huge difference in the way the car reacts at least from my personal experience. For example, if you are not naturally left handed, for a change on a safe place try braking your car equipped with ABS and without ABS using the left foot. This is a simple experiment which works a lot of time for natural right handers for life. The left foot inadvertently will hit the brakes and that too rapidly the car stops frantically quick. Atleast thats what i feel. Just my feeling that ABS helps in rapid braking. More so like, when you brake rapidly like hitting right on top of the brakes ABS helps a lot.

In KTM, i usually take it gradually. Once an auto tried to take an u turn in the middle of the road suddenly. Natural instinct took over and i was fully engaging the clutch, and basically hitting the front brakes real hard with my right toe trying to put as much pressure as possible on the rears. Without worries the bike stopped but for a second wondered what was coming behind me. Luckily i was 100 meters ahead of the traffic.

After that incident i usually practice my brakes every week in different conditions to get a feel of what i can do on roads as well as understand the limitation and avoid getting into such situation in the first place.

Understanding the limitations has helped me avoid to ride it hard in situations where i am not confident i can stop the bike. In dry tarmac i am very confident the bike can be controlled at speeds below 70 easilly to stop immediatley. But on gravel, i am confident that at those speeds you are treading with danger.

On rainy roads, the bike behaves exactly like in dry and from 70 i can still stop it with same confidence as in dry. This is the biggest advantage with these Metz

[Pretorian]

OT: Duke 690 expected by 2015 along with Husqvarna bikes from Chakan.
Hope they announce a lip smacking price soon for their potential 690 buyers

"Source"

[junaid12345678]

Another important point to note is that ABS is helpless in the event of a sideways skid or drift. So when we brake on gravel or sandy surface, we could be in trouble if we brake hard. In such situations, never press and hold the brakes tightly because the tires could loose traction all of a sudden. Just slam the brakes tightly for a second and release before the bike starts to skid sideways and repeat this till the bike becomes really slow or comes to a halt. In this way the ABS can be used effectively and you can feel the jolting through the levers when the ABS kicks in.
Personal experience

[Dr.Awesomeness]

Twentieth of November was a sad day for me even though it marked our bikes one month birthday. I was on my usual commute to my office in Domlur on my brothers' Duke 390. My shift was to begin at 2.30 AM and was on the KR Puram bridge at abt 1.45 AM. Was doing pretty neat speeds and if i remember right I was doing about 75-80 kmph trailing an AUDI A4. Out of nowhere came this huge pothole which I could not avoid in time. The bike ran over it with a loud crack sound and I immediately felt the bike loose momentum and the rear getting heavy. She ground to a halt and upon inspection I found out that the rear rim was bent. I was stuck on the 2 Km long bridge on the incline. Trust me friends, pushing the 390 with a flat tire is no child's play and that too uphill. The front rim was intact and that was indeed a reassurance.

Flagged down a pick up truck and got the bike to the service center by around 5 in the morning. Waited for the service center to open by 8 and got the bike inspected by a KTM Tech at Khivraj Bajaj, Domlur. That's when the shocker cam to light, the rear rim was not just bent but couple of spokes are cracked. The plans to get the rim straightened by a hydraulic press went up in smoke.

Will have to get the rim replaced under insurance. Running pillar to post to get the surveyor sent to the shop. New India Assurance is not something that I will be rooting for. Their customer service has basically made that decision for me. The rim is not in stock and I have to wait for about 15 days as advised by the KTM guys. The total cost of repairs would be around 5200 INR. Will have to pay the same upfront and then get it reimbursed.

So by the end of the first month other than this small hick-cup, the overall experience has been good with ASS and the bike, but average from the insurer. Hands down boohoo to BBMP.

[sridhu]

Originally Posted by Dr.Awesomeness

Twentieth of November was a sad day for me even though it marked our bikes one month birthday.

Thank goodness that you are fine & did not take spill. Money can be earned.

Around the same time couple of kids in my wife's office ran into a parked water tanker. One died & other is critical.

So a cracked rim is probably just fine. Could have been much worse.

[VW2010]

Was doing pretty neat speeds and if i remember right I was doing about 75-80 kmph trailing an AUDI A4. Out of nowhere came this huge pothole which I could not avoid in time. The bike ran over it with a loud crack sound

Thank your favorite stars for keeping it down with a broken rim. My cardinal rule ....

- Always know your roads before pushing your luck
- Never trail any car that close for you can hardly guess what the car is going over. Keep yourself a neat distance away from the car/truck/bus in front of you to react for such emergencies.
- Only when i know the roads by heart i may even think of trailing a car.
- Even when trailing i try to stick to the tyres path and not the centre path. Most of the drivers try to pass on the bad patch under the chasis.

[avishar]

Originally Posted by VW2010

Thank your favorite stars for keeping it down with a broken rim. My cardinal rule ....

- Always know your roads before pushing your luck
- Never trail any car that close for you can hardly guess what the car is going over. Keep yourself a neat distance away from the car/truck/bus in front of you to react for such emergencies.
- Only when i know the roads by heart i may even think of trailing a car.
- Even when trailing i try to stick to the tyres path and not the centre path. Most of the drivers try to pass on the bad patch under the chasis.

Very very valid points.I have learned it the hard way a couple of times when i have tried to be a bit adventurous on a road i dont know to well.And if i do spot a big pothole at the last moment i usually decide light braking and go through,bone crunching it maybe,both for the body and for the soul.Because if i slam on the brakes either a lockup or a rear ending is a risk.
I know my daily road conditions by heart,and thanks to BBMP lots of potholes and bumps to keep in mind!

[Sutripta]

Hi,
Given the unequivocal view stated here

Originally Posted by VW2010

I am sure you are aware of the procedure to brake specially with ABS. Unlike your normal braking where you gradually inadvertantly apply pressure and you believe its HARD as you can feel the force on the brake, you have to HIT the brake.

was expecting a technical discussion in support of it, rather than the subsequent cover all bases approach.

Originally Posted by VW2010

There is no cardinal rule. Whatever helps you stop the bike is what matters.

Originally Posted by VW2010

Adding to what rollin thunda, the advice is whatever it takes to rapidly stop the vehicle.

Regards
Sutripta

[ebonho]

This the big drawback of alloy rims. When they go, you are virtually stranded and can only trnasport the bike ahead to the closest repair point. On a rim with spokes, it is posible to limp on ahead with a bend and a lot of spokes gone. The obvious advantage though is the tubeless tyres and the peace of mind with regard to punctures. For this reason alone, I would go with alloys over spoked wheels when on tour.

@Sutripta, bro am no expert on ABS, with hardly any experience, but what little riding I did on ABS, I used to brake exactly I would on a non-ABS bike for the front (short of a partial brain lobotomy, NOTHING would make me grab a handful there). On the rear, over time, I did develop a heavier foot as the confidence built.

The problem(?) there was that in the test 390s the rear ABS would actuate very easily (unlike in my Storme for instance). And once it actuates, the best option is to just press on with the foot and keep it pressed till the bike stops or loses as much speed as you want. On gravel and off road, I would simply put it off, as suggested on most biking forums and websites. No sense in experimenting and finding out the painful way when readymade knowledge is already available.

I found the rear ABS to be a huge boon on a 800 km torrential rain ride I did to Gujarat and back. That and the Metzelers meant I was averaging 90+ in possibly the hardest rain I have ever ridden in for that distance, with water pooled all along the median on NH8. But while it makes trail braking in fast ghat riding a lot safer and idiot-proof, I did not like it, as it took away most of the feel. Purely my personal opinions and experience of course.

[black12rr]

Adding to what rollin thunda, the advice is whatever it takes to rapidly stop the vehicle. Nothing has changed because of ABS. In fact ABS is like the insurance you have to add more life time on a bike. It aids in the process of braking.

Not exactly . On my D200 , the braking was direct and sharp . The braking on D390 is effective but not as sharp as D200 . I tested this even with ABS -OFF . I just had to readjust my braking compared to D200 . But ABS is welcome . May be the next version of ABS will be even more sharper .
Or does a better master cylinder will help .I am not sure .

[VW2010]

was expecting a technical discussion in support of it, rather than the subsequent cover all bases approach.

@Sutripta,

The technical aspect is simple according to me. The braking mechanism is controlled based by ABS circuit using an algorithm that monitors rapid deceleration. Gradually applying brakes may not initiate the system as quickly as rapid braking. The sensors usually read out for deceleration and productively control the pressure applied to the brakes.

The intention is to avoid the wheel lock by allowing the wheel to accelerate again and re-applying the brakes.

This is equivalent to trying to apply brakes in a non ABS bike by using the brake lever intermittently.

As you hit the brakes hard you are basically making the deceleration far faster than gradual application.

Try it out with ABS on and ABS off at say 10-15 kmph in your KTM and you will realise that ABS does avoid wheel lock which will be evident on the tyre track post your stop which is very clear with the treading appearing on the road.(Usually a stiff mud road or even tamrac with some mud). there wont be tyre track that shows wheel lock.

These are my understanding. There is also an algorithm where the ABS may initiate its operational sequence post the first wheel lock when the pressure is released of the brake shoes and ABS action takes over.

ABS does not shorten braking distance but more so avoids skidding and allows intermittent acceleration in reality.

[lark63]

I am trying to set the lcd display to show 'Range & Distance to service". Recommended way to set is by pressing 'set' button repeatedly till the display scrolls to this mode. However when I shut off the bike, the display mode also goes back to default mode.
I raised this issue in DIY. The service head has promised to send me the excel file with detailed cockpit setting instructions.He did send me the file which I am attaching herewith. But the procedure listed in the file is same as in the manual and the result is also same.
Am I missing something here or is the setting volatile & can not be saved ?
Has anybody tried this & what is the result ?

By the way, one more point I remembered from DIY, the air pressure for D390 is 25(F) /28.5(R) for solo and 25(F)/32(R) for pillion. This is correctly mentioned in the printed manual supplied along with the bike. For those of you who have downloaded the manual from KTM website, these settings do not match in PDF file available on website. What other settings are different i do not know.
The service head Mr.Prashant Pingle has forwarded me the correct pdf file. To reduce the file size he has mailed a low resolution version which is still 5.1MB and is more than the limit set for pdf attachments in the forum. The pics in the manual are hazy but for those you may refer to the online manual. Those of you who are interested can message me your mail ids. I will be too happy to mail you the same.