[ebonho]

Originally Posted by preetam_KORG

Any technical pointers doc?

No pointers or help from my side on this issue brothers because I have never had this problem. Or probably my riding style is different so have not encounterd this issue - take you pick.

The gearbox of my baby Duke 222 is the slickest I have ever ridden (the 390's gearbox is clunky in comparison). That I am in love with that aspect of my bike from day 1 would be an understatement.

The only issue I have ever faced is rare mis-shifts while upshifting. This especialy happens under heavy rpm load when you are really pulling strong and going up the gears in a hurry - like in ghat riding.

This used to happen more with the old style shift levers and I was told that its an issue on the old Dukes identified and isolated to the IGUS Bush (this has been discussed in detail long time ago in my Baby Duke 222 thread). Replacement of the bush, cleaning and lubing of the area solved it.

The new shifters with roller bearings in place of this bush and different dimensions and curvature are even better. I still do once in a blue moon get a mistimed upshift, but that I believe is sometimes more because I am either not paying attention/in the "zone", or am coming back to the Duke after a longish time with the Bullet.

Either way, its never been an issue for me. Hope that helps (I think ).

[VW2010]

Technically the clutch is not a slippery clutch that they use in race spec bikes. The clutch is friction based and is almost the same clutch we use in most of the bikes. While reducing from say 90 to 20 from 6th to first one is trying to basically shift the engaging sleeves across different gears. This means you are trying to move different engagement sleeves across the gear box in a short period of time.

On a slippery clutch this is fine and you wont find the problem of gears not engaging.

The same reason why sometimes you let go of clutch for the bike to slot into a gear before you can step down.

This is my take. The engagement sleeves across different gears may move to a position and expect clutch disengagement before it can let the next gear shift to happen. From 6th to 1st is basically asking the transmission to load and unload the engagement sleeve 5 times in a fraction of a second.

The clutch and gearbox should work in such a seamless manner that downshifting or up shifting shouldn't be a task but more like selecting a gear directly using a button.

[Added_flavor]

Normally I disengage clutch - shift down accompanied by a throttle blip during every down shift. This is not a conscious act and comes as a instinct/practice from my previous bikes.

Today I tried to replicate what's being discussed here, that is one clutch pull and shift down from 6th cog to 2nd. Although I did shift down, the gears sounded bad (clunk/thud/thlunk/whatever ). But I did not face the sticky lever issue.

So what I can understand is, there are 2 separate issues here.

1. Downshifting from top gear to lowest gear without engaging the clutch between downshifts - which is IMO just bad practice.

2. Sticky lever during downshifting but kicks back when clutch is engaged. Although I haven't faced this on Duke, I faced it on my Karizma once. The mechanic greased the shift lever pivot and it never recurred. A more serious cause of this apart from lack of lubrication in the shift lever can be a busted or a sticky shift return spring (I'm just speculating). So you guys might want to get this checked.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

Today I tried to replicate what's being discussed here, that is one clutch pull and shift down from 6th cog to 2nd. Although I did shift down, the gears sounded bad (clunk/thud/thlunk/whatever ).

This happens in most gearboxes. Been my experience too (which is why the standard 4 speed box of the Bullets with the small neutral lever absolutely rocks!). Cyrus I think has given an explanation of why this happens some pages back. A couple of shifts down at a time, like what Sutripta does (and a lot of other riders do) is fine if you have a reasonably close ratio-ed box and depending on how you approach a corner/obstacle/traffic situation. But multiple gears down - like 6 to 2 - you will get what you and Cyrus and others have described. Clunk-thud-(and if your clutch is slipping or not pulled in well)-kkrrrrraaachhhhh.

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

2. Sticky lever during downshifting but kicks back when clutch is engaged. Although I haven't faced this on Duke, I faced it on my Karizma once. The mechanic greased the shift lever pivot and it never recurred. A more serious cause of this apart from lack of lubrication in the shift lever can be a busted or a sticky shift return spring (I'm just speculating). So you guys might want to get this checked.

I think so too. Sounds the most plausible and I had speculated the same some time back .....

Originally Posted by ebonho

I agree with Ashok and Jay on this. It is not a design element but a fault. Probably gear return spring. Does not sound like a clutch issue. In the older bikes like mine the Igus Bush in the shifter used to get stiff and create issues with mis-shifts. But the newer lots have a bearing in place of the bush so that cannot be the culprit. Ashok get it checked bro. Should be a simple fix.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by ashkamath

Sutripta, What I could gather was that the 6 gears are forged alloyed steel of chromium and Nickel, and then case hardened which results in high durability and toughness.
....
These gears are tough enough to last.

Thanks, but you are preaching to the choir! Not just the Duke, should not be a problem with any modern (= well designed, properly built) bike.

However, if the GB starts making weird/ frightening noises, or a rough shift feel, consistently on a particular usage pattern, common sense dictates that that usage pattern be avoided. I am assuming that people who are doing it (me included) do not hear these noises.

To be fair, I must add that a double tap is second nature to me (absolutely necessary to go from cruise mode into the power band), triple taps also when occasion demands (slowing down). But I don't think I shift from 6 to 1 in one go. Must try it out!

Regards
Sutripta

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Thanks, but you are preaching to the choir! Not just the Duke, should not be a problem with any modern (= well designed, properly built) bike.

However, if the GB starts making weird/ frightening noises, or a rough shift feel, consistently on a particular usage pattern, common sense dictates that that usage pattern be avoided. I am assuming that people who are doing it (me included) do not hear these noises.

To be fair, I must add that a double tap is second nature to me (absolutely necessary to go from cruise mode into the power band), triple taps also when occasion demands (slowing down). But I don't think I shift from 6 to 1 in one go. Must try it out!

Regards
Sutripta

Hehehehe. I am a bit old, going to hit half a century soon, so I get into preaching mode, faster than the duke can hit 100. Yup I agree with you if there is something out of the ordinary, like you said if the GB is making weird / frightening noises, or a rough shift feel consistently on a particular usage pattern then CS dictates that the ride pattern must be altered. well apart from the clunky 2nd and 3rd gear and the sticky gear lever issue I have not heard any weird noise or rough shift as of now.

I rode yesterday and today with fully observing myself and yes, I did double tapping more than once. When approaching a junction, from 80 at 6th gear, cut of throttle, hit the brake to slow down, touched about 40 and shifted from 6th to 4th. I passed through the speed range 80-40 pretty quickly that I could not shift to 5th release clutch and then do the same thingie again to get to 4th. I guess that is ok.

Earlier I used to ride at a good speed in 6th gear, then as I approach a hump, I used to brake hard at the last moment, to decelerate very fast, and once the bike has slowed down to say under 30ish I am close to the base of the hump, do my multi-down shifting to 2nd and take the hump in 2nd gear. But today I consciously did the gradual gear change while approaching a hump at a distance of about 100 mtrs to down shift to 5th release the clutch, after another 30-40 mtrs down shift to 4th so on and so forth. ( I mean the usual down shifting pattern). till I reached the hump at about 30 Kmph speed. the ride was fine I guess.

The clutch being hard, I tried to see how the bike behaves in gear without throttle. At an isolated road ( inside an industrial area) I found that in 1st gear without giving any throttle, the bike trudges at 9-10 Kmph speed and engine does not stall. I tried in 2nd gear and again, with no throttle, the bike trudges at 13-14 Kmph speed and does not stall. I tried the 1st gear no throttle on a upward gradient hoping the engine would stall, but no the bike simply chugged at 9-10 Kmph slowly up the road, but did not stall. So that is some good news while riding in slow moving traffic ( not stop and go traffic) where using clutch could be painful to the fingers.

I had earlier reported about the grogginess in the engine and also had some starting issues. so took her to the SVC today, wanted to change the engine oil from 10W40 to 10W50. as the SVC did not stock 10W50, I scouted Margao city for the grade, but could not get it. So oil change next time. So the work at SVC was reduced to change the fuel filter and tighten and lube the chain.
Fun started here. 2 guys Mr. M and Mr. H specially trained with KTM Duke were on leave and so another Pulsar Mech Mr.A took charge and enthusiastically removed the tank and replaced the fuel filter, but he was not fit the tank back. he called another mech to help and both wrestled with the tank and the bolts but could not get it done, then the floor supervisor arrived, did some juggling, little bit of pushing and finally the tank was refitted. My mech while fitting the tank lid allen bolts dropped a couple of allen bolts in the radiator area which could not be retrieved ( neither did it fall down). I was concerned if these bolts hit the blower fan, then I am in big big trouble. took the matter with the Manager ( just to make sure that I have this matter brought into their notice) who assured me with " Sir, it will fall off while you ride" and I am like what if it slips in the radiator fan or some thing?? Finally after nearly 2 and half hours ( for chain lube and fuel filter change) the bike was ready and the supervisor wanted to take it for a customary test ride before delivery. he took the bike out and the engine simply turned off (the very reason for me being in the SVC). He tried at least some 5-6 times to get it started ( and I was pretty annoyed that my problem is demonstrated again at delivery time) and finally he took for a spin and said "Sir. All is well".

My initial feeling of the ride is that the bike was peppier than earlier, the exhaust sounded smoother ( I had changed to speed petrol for the first time yesterday, could be that), But, I could feel lot of vibes in the petrol tank and front section. that smoothness was missing (the bike was repaired in the yard as the shop line was full and they have the assembly line electric bolt tighteners which really did the job well and here it was manually tightened /pushed / pulled) and some how it was mixed bag feeling. Once my mech Mr. M is back from his vacation, I am going to take her back for a full check up again.

The first snap is the Fuel filter replacement ( the white tube).
the view of the fuel tank after the cap is removed. you observe those 4 allen bolts??. My good man lost 2 of them while fitting it back. It just slid down the tank at front and vanished.
The Sensors / ECU mounted on the tank back.

Finally Just curious. How many of you guys have personally come across a damaged GB due to bad riding? (not mishap but due to bad riding pattern/style) It could be any bike for that matter. Just want to know the rate of this incidence in the biking fraternity.

[Rollin' Thunda]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

But I don't think I shift from 6 to 1 in one go. Must try it out!

Regards
Sutripta

Don't. I said it was a thought-experiment. It was a thought-experiment because it would be impossible (or foolish!) to do it in reality. [The most famous thought-experiment in history began, "Assume you are travelling at the speed of light..." ]

[nasirkaka]

Facing the same issue on my Duke, however this is pretty recent. I got my bike's 1st servicing done at 900kms. till then I faced no issues.
After the 1st servicing its a different story, the gear lever bottoms out while downshifting from 3rd onwards... Have to prod/pull it up to downshift.

not that frequently but even i have also con across this, specially in 1-3 gears. ANd this is not while downshifting many gears in succession. Hope its nothing major and with time settles down.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Rollin' Thunda

Don't.

Will try for minimal shock loads. (Will try and match, as far as possible, engine speed to then road speed.)

Regards
Sutripta

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Rode back to Hyderabad from Kerala. Just reached a couple of hours ago. Had several instances of rapid deceleration and quick downshifts. Will write about things in details once I find some time and after some rest.

[ashkamath]

Breached 4000 Kms on odo today. After yesterday's Fuel Filter replacement and shifting to BPC-Speed petrol ( since last 2 refills), the engine appeared to rev free / breathe free today. Even though the vibes are prominent at feet / palms, the engine sounded perceptibly smooth and free and felt the pickup a tad peppier.

Guys I wanted to ask, what change has this bike bought in you as a person? and what is the single most factor in this bike that you would say liked / appreciated most?
I was a very sedate rider earlier ( as much sedate a Honda Activa would permit) , but now I have become an optimistic rider ( I dare not say aggressive rider). This bike could make a person aggressive/ confident/ disdainful to other riders / rash / arrogant / happy / contented / careless / and much more. As for me (I will be extremely honest with you guys) I have started a very faint hint of disdain with which I overtake other bikes / cars as if squatting a fly aside (with proper care and caution of course). I don't mean that I am a rash rider. that is why I chose the word optimistic rider. I feel the ride is becoming an expression of me and an extension of me that was deep hidden in the recess of my mind and heart and now I am exposing my true self.

and one single thing that I most like in this bike is the amazing Metzeler Sportec tyres. the tyres gives absolute grip and confidence and that makes all the difference to me. You can have a great engine and handling bike but if your tyres are shoddy, then I reckon it is a let down, but on the other hand if the bike has an average engine and the Metzelers, I reckon I would give it a thumbs up.

[lark63]

Originally Posted by ashkamath

Breached 4000 Kms on odo today. After yesterday's Fuel Filter replacement and shifting to BPC-Speed petrol ( since last 2 refills), the engine appeared to rev free / breathe free today. Even though the vibes are prominent at feet / palms, the engine sounded perceptibly smooth and free and felt the pickup a tad peppier.

Guys I wanted to ask, what change has this bike bought in you as a person? and what is the single most factor in this bike that you would say liked / appreciated most?
I was a very sedate rider earlier ( as much sedate a Honda Activa would permit) , but now I have become an optimistic rider ( I dare not say aggressive rider). This bike could make a person aggressive/ confident/ disdainful to other riders / rash / arrogant / happy / contented / careless / and much more. As for me (I will be extremely honest with you guys) I have started a very faint hint of disdain with which I overtake other bikes / cars as if squatting a fly aside (with proper care and caution of course). I don't mean that I am a rash rider. that is why I chose the word optimistic rider. I feel the ride is becoming an expression of me and an extension of me that was deep hidden in the recess of my mind and heart and now I am exposing my true self.

and one single thing that I most like in this bike is the amazing Metzeler Sportec tyres. the tyres gives absolute grip and confidence and that makes all the difference to me. You can have a great engine and handling bike but if your tyres are shoddy, then I reckon it is a let down, but on the other hand if the bike has an average engine and the Metzelers, I reckon I would give it a thumbs up.

I agree with you. My riding style has changed too. I was riding P150 earlier which does not have great juice but somehow I used to drive aggressively by revving higher when required.
With D390, it happens with very less effort and much more naturally. Though I am riding at higher speeds than earlier, I am very relaxed which surprises myself.
A couple of times I had people shouting at me because they think they are about to get in trouble because of my riding towards them at a wee bit higher speeds. They don't realise that I would be long gone before they even reach the spot where my bike was when they feel they are in trouble. There is no chance for them to even to cross my path. I guess it takes some time for people to realise this.

[Bazinga]

Originally Posted by ashkamath

Guys I wanted to ask, what change has this bike bought in you as a person? and what is the single most factor in this bike that you would say liked / appreciated most?

Am riding faster too.. even in traffic. I cannot resist the urge to wade thru traffic at a faster speed now. I used to be a sedate rider on my P150 but this has really made me ride harder and faster, the rush of acceleration on the tap is addictive

[VW2010]

That's the biggest danger I am personally worried about. I am sedate in city traffic. I do accelerate at certain space but I am very much aware of respecting the other riders.

Personally avoid the rush of adrenaline and stick to safe riding. I am worried that the 390 in wrong hands is a danger for other riders and commuters. Its like the rx100 era of crazy riders putting others in danger.

[Bluu]

Originally Posted by VW2010

That's the biggest danger I am personally worried about. I am sedate in city traffic. I do accelerate at certain space but I am very much aware of respecting the other riders.

Personally avoid the rush of adrenaline and stick to safe riding. I am worried that the 390 in wrong hands is a danger for other riders and commuters. Its like the rx100 era of crazy riders putting others in danger.

I've had the bike for less than a month and the bigger danger, according to my experience, are the other bikers who feel the need to race the 390. Unfortunately, this is especially true of Duke 200 riders. In my brief ownership, I have had two occasions where 200 riders have ridden very dangerously in order to keep up/pass me while I was still running the bike in.

As owners of a fast motorcycle, we need to be extra careful about road safety but I really wish others would be too.