[man_of_steel]

An article on the techs of the Metzeler M5s by late Kevin Ash.

Source: ashonbikes.com
http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/me...ract-technical

[nasirkaka]

Just in case if you don't know, the speaker was Venkat Shyam, owner of Auto Service, Banshankari which services Bajaj, KTM and Kawasaki bikes.
It was widely regarded as one of the best SVCs in South India . He himself owns a CBR 1000RR & Ninja 650R. Nice chap - know him for some time.

correcta! i get my duke serviced at auto service, and have spoken to him a few times on general stuff about bikes. thorough gentleman, very knowledgeable and always helpful. I do remember mentioning about cracked rims on the 390 and he had pointed in the direction of incorrect tyre pressure as one of the probable culprits.

[razorBlades]

Given my bike at SVC for the engine cutoff issue while riding. Also getting a mileage figures of 16kmpl on highway! Not sure what they are gonna do. They say they acknowledge the issue but have not found a solution yet regarding the engine cut off. Anyone faced this?

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by razorBlades

Given my bike at SVC for the engine cutoff issue while riding. Also getting a mileage figures of 16kmpl on highway! Not sure what they are gonna do. They say they acknowledge the issue but have not found a solution yet regarding the engine cut off. Anyone faced this?

16kmpl on a highway does seem to be on the lower side, however you haven't mentioned what kind of speeds you were doing when you achieved this. Gunning it at 150kmph continuously can result in this mileage. Also, a lot depends on how the bike was run in. Is this the first service?

Regarding the stalling issue, just out of curiosity, can you tell me how much play the throttle has?

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by VedderTheFixer

Guys how did you run in your bikes, any suggestions? I have been riding between 4-5k rpm , being real careful ( i even saw 38 kpl on the display)..got a bit carried away and hit 130 once but apart from that quite disciplined.

It says 'Ready to Race' on the can. Rip it.

[imp!]

Has anyone got any experience with adjustable levers from ebay? They range from $25-75 with free shipping. Any suggestions? seems like a reasonable way to deal with the PITA OEM levers on the bike.

imp

[razorBlades]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

16kmpl on a highway does seem to be on the lower side, however you haven't mentioned what kind of speeds you were doing when you achieved this. Gunning it at 150kmph continuously can result in this mileage. Also, a lot depends on how the bike was run in. Is this the first service?

Regarding the stalling issue, just out of curiosity, can you tell me how much play the throttle has?

Well, there were 2 other 390's riding with me and they had the mileage in upwards of 25kmpl.. The run-in was done within the specified 7500 RPM and have not crossed 120 in 6th gear! The speeds we were doing was 120-130 kmph.

Play throttle is just adjusted from the svc and is in proper settings.

[imp!]

Originally Posted by razorBlades

Well, there were 2 other 390's riding with me and they had the mileage in upwards of 25kmpl.. The run-in was done within the specified 7500 RPM and have not crossed 120 in 6th gear! The speeds we were doing was 120-130 kmph.

Play throttle is just adjusted from the svc and is in proper settings.

I got 18 kpl on my first tank up, after that I have been averaging 30 kpl. The one or two rides I have done with long stretches at those speeds averaged 25kpl. Obviously my riding style isn't as frenetic as most 390 owners. I think it is fair to say that for most riders the mileage should be between 25-30.

Did you actually check the mileage or is this the reading of the display? Can you please expound on the cut-off issue you are facing? Hope KTM can sort it out and quickly. Hang in there!

[Urban_Nomad]

Calling all knee draggers!!!!

I have now ridden this bike for around 300kms and have a few queries wrt cornering. I took the bike out on a very well lit; open road with very sparse traffic and lots of lighting and a couple of delicious long sweeping corners.

I was trying body positions and for a left hander; I tried sliding my bum towards the inside (left) of the corner and scared the bajesus out of me.

I was unable to get a lock with my outside leg and had to hold on for dear life with my inside knee gripping the tank (as opposed to pointed outward) and me riding all twisted (must have looked real stupid). Obviously; the bike did not feel planted at all and I was struggling to maintain a line.

Some info:

- I am 5.11 tall
- My jewels are usually around 1 - 1.5 inches away from the base of the tank
- Back was slighlty arched; I was not in a tuck
- I was wearing knee guards on the outside of my jeans
- I tried locking my knee just below the tank's "flared up" area; but it just slid upwards

Kweshchins:

- Could the gurus provide similar stats as above on their height, seat position etc (on the duke)
- Where / what part on the tank do you lock your outside knee with
- Do you first stick your knee out or move across the seat
- To slide across the seat; do you lift up your bum or go rubbing against the seat
- Outside foot - ball of foot on the peg or locked in with the heel (personally do not like the latter much. One more action for you to perform during the already "busy" period of corner set up
- Maybe I am losing grip because of the knee guards owing to reduced friction (plastic agianst plastic). Thoughts? Should I try this with my knee guards inside my jeans?
- Any other info / tips / techniques you would like to share

I am very keen on understanding the transition from sitting bang in the middle of the seat to moving towards the inside of the corner & stick knee out.

Will go and practice tonight after hearing back from my cyber bros & report back tomorrow

PS - The intent is not to look all flashy and jazzed up (although doing it right does look awesome). I am actually uncomfortable sitting square in the middle whilst taking a corner (more lean than actually required). I do move my upper body towards the inside of the corner but it just does not feel right if your entire body is not in line. Its just not efficient

PPS - Oye Man of steel: I am looking at your avatar pic brother. If you dont respond; you will have a very angry rider tailing you wherever you go. You will know its me coz the rider would be all twisty and awkward in corners; fighting for dear life

[niranjanrvce]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Kweshchins:

- Could the gurus provide similar stats as above on their height, seat position etc (on the duke)

Almost same stats as you.

- Where / what part on the tank do you lock your outside knee with

Just below the tank flare but: you need to lock in your knees while you are upright, not when you start the lean. Basically, the knees are locked in always. Also, smooth jeans will be slippery - get proper riding pants before trying all this please.

- Do you first stick your knee out or move across the seat

Sticking your knee out is an optional, last-part-of-the-lean move. Get your head across first - kiss the left mirror on a left hander for example for an almost right head position. This will get your bum off the middle of the seat and should be a simple slide off to the side of the seat.Then make a conscious effort to get max body weight into the lean by using your outside knee to hang off. Inside knee extension is only to measure your lean; the knee itself won't make you turn faster.

To slide across the seat; do you lift up your bum or go rubbing against the seat

Slide across - try the kissing the mirror thing and you should slide across naturally. Lifting your bum too much will de-stabilize the bike since you'll compress the springs by putting weight on the handle and footpegs.

Outside foot - ball of foot on the peg or locked in with the heel (personally do not like the latter much. One more action for you to perform during the already "busy" period of corner set up

Ball of the foot on the peg ALWAYS. Even while riding in a straight line. And your busiest period is BEFORE the corner and not during it - get in position early. And ride right while going ramrod-straight (knees, ball of feet mainly) so that you are less busy while entering the corner.

Maybe I am losing grip because of the knee guards owing to reduced friction (plastic agianst plastic). Thoughts? Should I try this with my knee guards inside my jeans?

Get riding pants please. plastic against plastic is poor friction and you wouldn't want to lose body grip when leant over

- Any other info / tips / techniques you would like to share

I am very keen on understanding the transition from sitting bang in the middle of the seat to moving towards the inside of the corner & stick knee out.

Also, since you mentioned left handers, attaching a pic of me on a MMSC left hander a couple of weeks ago. I am not exactly doing everything pin perfect but you get the idea there

Mod Note : Please do NOT reply to posts using bold text within a quoted post, as it leads to visual discomfort for readers. Additionally, it's inconvenient to quote & reply to such a post.

For the correct way to quote, please see this thread.

Thanks!

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by niranjanrvce

my replies to your questions in bold above.

Lovely pic Niranjan. I wish to get there soon so that I can show off on T-BHP too

My only question is on "kissing the mirrors first".

Books and you tube tells me to set my lower body first (get out of my seat and hang half a cheek off) and then move in with my upper body (in effect kissing the mirrors). Your comment says I should first set up my upper body & then worry about the lower body getting in line. Or am I misunderstandig your comment?

OT:

I do have riding pants; Klim Mojave. They actually have a big leather panel on the inside of the legs to help improve grip (& keep engine heat away). Do check out some reviews online. The quality is wayyyy superior than the DSGs and Cramsters of the world (have not checked out Spartan yet; so cant say). I even got the CE rated hip armour for $10 only. It was on closeout and cost me $ 103 (93 + 10). Supreme VFM

They are super vented though (without liner) & breathe like a screen door. Its kind of cold in Delhi still (pleasent mostly. But vented anything on a bike would not be comfy at all). Cant wait for summers to get here. Next winters; will get me a quilted riding pant for sure.

Thanks again bud!

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

PPS - Oye Man of steel: I am looking at your avatar pic brother. If you dont respond; you will have a very angry rider tailing you wherever you go. You will know its me coz the rider would be all twisty and awkward in corners; fighting for dear life

Always welcome for a ride bro! But I must disclaim that I am not a knee dragger! Yes, I am an absolute cornering junkie who derives orgasm from corners than from straights. But I am not a knee dragger. Infact, I have limited track experience and that is the only place in this whole earth that I found the need to drag a knee. But Ive never done that even there. So I wont be the best person to reply to your query! However, I am jotting down my thoughts since you asked.

I have now ridden this bike for around 300kms and have a few queries wrt cornering. I took the bike out on a very well lit; open road with very sparse traffic and lots of lighting and a couple of delicious long sweeping corners.

If you have spent a fair amount of time in the twisties in this 300kms, you can ignore the rest of the paragraph. Else, I think you should be progressive in the lean angle you achieve on your bike. Give it a little more time. Understand how the bike behaves in the corner. Mind you, the Duke's turn in into the corner is so quick that it can scare the hell out of you. Even before you know the bike will be doing insane lean angles. Also the chassis and suspension is so stiff that it will be unforgiving in bumpy corners and can be scary for an unprepared soul. It will take some time to get a hang of all those! And also, complete the run in so that you can gun the hell out of the apex!

I was trying body positions and for a left hander; I tried sliding my bum towards the inside (left) of the corner and scared the bajesus out of me.

I was unable to get a lock with my outside leg and had to hold on for dear life with my inside knee gripping the tank (as opposed to pointed outward) and me riding all twisted (must have looked real stupid). Obviously; the bike did not feel planted at all and I was struggling to maintain a line.

I think a number of things should have gone wrong there.
- You tried to hang off after the bike was into the lean - Should have been done before leaning into the corner. While you progressively brake or just after you finished braking OR
- Unnecessary inputs(Tight grips) to the handlebar while trying to hang off. The grip should be loose and the elbows should not be stiff. A tight grip will send unnecessary inputs to the handle and make the bike unsettled in corners OR
- Choppy throttle. You were uneven with the throttle which made the bike unsettled. Quoting Keith Code “Once the throttle is cracked on, it is rolled on evenly, smoothly, and consistently throughout the remainder of the turn.” OR
- You have hung off too much than your mind could comprehend. The rule of thump now is half cheek out. But still, getting a half cheek out for the first time will be scary. Be progressive on that, try sliding your bum out a bit to start with. Go over the same corner again and again getting your bottom out more and more until the half cheek happens

- I am 5.11 tall

Me too!

- My jewels are usually around 1 - 1.5 inches away from the base of the tank

That's the right way to do it. You should not be sitting flush against the tank. Lock your tail bone part to the rear seat's hump.

- Back was slighlty arched; I was not in a tuck

Lean over the tank so that you lower the overall center of gravity. Complete tuck in is not required but lean over and soon you will notice the difference.

- I tried locking my knee just below the tank's "flared up" area; but it just slid upwards

This suggests that you were sliding from the seat into the curve. Like I said. Be progressive about it. Even while riding straight you can try sliding your bum out and gripping the tank with the inner thigh of the outside leg. Do this and you will not be taken by surprise mid corner.

- Where / what part on the tank do you lock your outside knee with

There is not hard and fast rule. Grip it at a place where it is comfortable for you. Grip the tank always with both thighs while you ride. It should help you find a custom sweet spot.

- Do you first stick your knee out or move across the seat
- To slide across the seat; do you lift up your bum or go rubbing against the seat

Use your thigh muscles to lift the bum off the seat just enough so that you can slide across. Stick your knee out after hanging off. Remember to keep the handlebar grip loose so that the bike wont shake and bellydance. And do not use the handle bar to get up and hang off.

- Maybe I am losing grip because of the knee guards owing to reduced friction (plastic agianst plastic). Thoughts? Should I try this with my knee guards inside my jeans?

Will not be a problem if you are hanging off just right. Although a grippier knee guards/stomp grip definitely helps!

- Any other info / tips / techniques you would like to share

I will just summarize.
- Approach the corner and make sure that the corner is clear of water, dust, dog, pedestrians and cows. Look Where you want to go
- Always keep the outside line before turn in. If a left hander, take the extreme right side possible to turn into the corner. Look Where you want to go
- Finish the braking and shift down before you lean the bike in. Get the half cheek out. Keep the thigh of outer leg in contact with the the tank and lock it into a grip after hanging off. Remember to keep the handle bar grip loose, balls on the peg and weight on the outer peg
- Decide on the line you want to take. Look Where you want to go (In this phase the apex)
- Lean into the corner. Look Where you want to go(Apex). Your head should be where the inside rear view mirror is. This will ensure that you are not riding crossed up. Stick the inside knee out
- Slice the apex like you have visualized. Look Where you want to go. Get on the gas and roll on the gas evenly and smoothly. In case of a tight corner, maintain the throttle till you can charge ahead to the outside of the end of the corner and, never coast through a corner. Chopping off the throttle mid corner can lead to a tank slapper or worse a high side

All these are easier said than done. Be progressive. Be comfortable with each step at a time. Never attempt to do all at once.

This is my Avatar pic shot at MMSC Race track, Chennai

Here You can find that my knee is nowhere close to the tarmac. So many mistakes I have done is evident from the pic.
I am sitting a bit crossed up
I am carrying too much of lean through the corner(Turned into the corner too early)
I am not fully half cheek out which is making me to lean the bike more. and still my knee is nowhere close to the ground
Nevertheless I am happy about the things I didnt do right that day due to which I gave those points some thought and learned better on it

Now, Having said all this. I repeat again and again. In public roads or even the ghats there is absolutely no need for doing a knee down or even hanging off to an extend and it is dangerous too. If you can find an empty stretch, good. But please ride safe bro! Have a blast!!

[niranjanrvce]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

My only question is on "kissing the mirrors first".

Books and you tube tells me to first set my lower body first (get out of my seat and hang half a cheek off) and then move in with my upper body (in effect kissing the mirrors). Your comment says I should first set up my upper body & then worry about the lower body getting in line. Or am I misunderstandig your comment?

OT:

I do have riding pants; Klim Mojave. It was on closeout and cost me $ 103 (93 + 10). Supreme VFM

I meant kissing the mirrors should automatically get your cheek off the middle of the seat and move your lower body into lean naturally - both happening together. And then you exert and maintain your body weight and CG right all through the corner. I am no guru though, just stating my learning. A proper coach live/online should be able to explain better. What I have noticed though is that people have their own way of getting into the right position and it really depends on what comes most naturally to an individual rider. If your lower body moves quicker/better, then you sort of kiss the tank sometimes while the lower part is set right.
I trust the head position so much since it makes 'going where you are seeing' part extremely straightforward. A proper pro might have much more sublime considerations that just that though!

Never heard of Klim Mojave but they sound interesting; I'll check out if they have a nice vented mesh jacket collection. Bangalore is hot enough already and wearing a leather jacket is like a free suana now.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

But I must disclaim that I am not a knee dragger! Yes, I am an absolute cornering junkie who derives orgasm from corners than from straights. But I am not a knee dragger

O ho! So many disclaimers.

A pic you posted of your ground out "chicken strips" is still fresh in my memory. You must have had a blast. It told me that you are someone who enjoys cornering and cornering hard; unlike the teeming masses who would not go beyond "brutal straight line acceleration" and "Top speed". No wait ..... There's FE calcs too; down to the very decimal of it.

I was happiest on my bull scraping pegs and sides of my boots (I know I know; technically its an incorrect thing to do). Now that I have bought a machine that actually loves to corner; I want to be able to experience that and bring my skill level up. No better way to learn IMO than simply asking a question. So.....

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

Now, Having said all this. I repeat again and again. In public roads or even the ghats there is absolutely no need for doing a knee down or even hanging off to an extend and it is dangerous too. If you can find an empty stretch, good. But please ride safe bro! Have a blast!!

Agree 100%. I do take necessary precautions and do not overdo the speed thing (control first. Speed follows). But its good that you pointed this out.

And I am not aiming to drag my knee. IMO; it should be a result (of speed + lean) and not a target. It should come automatically. Plus; good cornering skills can be a life saver (apart from being super fun). Thanks for taking the time out to answer my queries bud. Appreciate it

Originally Posted by niranjanrvce

What I have noticed though is that people have their own way of getting into the right position and it really depends on what comes most naturally to an individual rider. If your lower body moves quicker/better, then you sort of kiss the tank sometimes while the lower part is set right.

Very true! Getting out there and doing it yourself as opposed to reading about it or watching videos is as different as chalk n cheese

Originally Posted by niranjanrvce

Never heard of Klim Mojave but they sound interesting; I'll check out if they have a nice vented mesh jacket collection. Bangalore is hot enough already and wearing a leather jacket is like a free suana now.

You would find it very difficult to hear a bad word on Klim products worldwide. But their jackets are Bat-S**T expensive. You can easily get a Dianese / Alpinestar / Rev IT for lesser money.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Agree 100%. I do take necessary precautions and do not overdo the speed thing (control first. Speed follows). But its good that you pointed this out.

And I am not aiming to drag my knee. IMO; it should be a result (of speed + lean) and not a target. It should come automatically. Plus; good cornering skills can be a life saver (apart from being super fun). Thanks for taking the time out to answer my queries bud. Appreciate it

No problemo bro! Since you are from Delhi do enroll for the 390 track day at BIC. I assure you that it will be a blast! And some thing I mentioned before. I had absolutely no idea what kind of the bike I had bought spending 2+ lakhs, until I took it to the tracks!