[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by aditya.bhardwaj

Sir, both the tires will fit as tubeless. A friend is using them in his D200 and is really happy. And I am sure we won't be facing any problem on the D390 too as the rims are the same. But I am still not sure what to get. Either the michelin pilot street or the ceat vertigo sport. I have two weeks to decide. Please help !

Yes, there is a possibility to fit a tubed tire as tubeless. But to the best of my knowledge, construction of tubed and tubeless tires will be different. For a tubeless tire, the tire wall will be stronger to support the weight without the tube. But why do we want to take an unnecessary risk? I know guys who has converted their tubed tire to tubeless on cars. But on a bike, a blowout at any speed will prove to be fatal. To be on the safest side, use the tubed tire with a tube.

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

Yes, there is a possibility to fit a tubed tire as tubeless. But to the best of my knowledge, construction of tubed and tubeless tires will be different. For a tubeless tire, the tire wall will be stronger to support the weight without the tube. But why do we want to take an unnecessary risk? I know guys who has converted their tubed tire to tubeless on cars. But on a bike, a blowout at any speed will prove to be fatal. To be on the safest side, use the tubed tire with a tube.

I am not sure if you do realize that the chances of a blowout on a tubed tire are exponentially higher than a tubeless? There is no argument about the fact that tubeless tires are much safer than tubed ones!

Needless to mention the easy repairability of tubeless punctures!

References:

Wikipedia:
"In a tubeless tire, the tire and the rim of the wheel form an airtight seal, with the valve being directly mounted on the rim. If a tubeless tire gets a small puncture, air escapes only through the hole, leading to a gentle deflation. Conversely, an inner tube could potentially burst like a balloon, leading to a rapid deflation of the tire which could result in sudden loss of control of the vehicle."

Bridgestone website:
Advantages of Tubeless tyres compared to Tube type tyres

Advantages
Reason / Remark
Better Safety – less chances of accidents due to sudden air leakage
In case of a puncture, the air leakage is slower. As air can escape only through the point of puncture; it gives sufficient time to the driver to control the vehicle
Better fuel efficiency
Light weight due to absence of the tube
Less chance of damage in case of flat running
No instant air loss
Better heat dissipation
Air in direct contact with rim
Cost saving on tube
No tube required
No tube related problems
Tube not present
Less balance weight required
No unbalance due to tube

[aditya.bhardwaj]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Ceat Vertigo Sport 120 is tubeless tyre. But Ceat Secura Sport (for the front) is definitely not a tubeless tyre. Please confirm!

I would any day go with the Ceats over the Michelins. Horses for courses. And since you're only using them for this ride, you don't need to break the bank either (I think you can get both Ceats in the price of one Michelin - check ).

P.S. Doc is fine. No sir please buddy!

Yes doc, I might be wrong but I will surely check again. Now the thing is that if I buy a tire now then I can't change them again before the tire loses its tread. My parents will freak out if I spend twice on a tire in 4 months. I am really leaning towards the Michelin's but i am not sure whether ladakh would be possible in them or not. For the front i would continue with Metz as a lot of life is left in them

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

I am not sure if you do realize that the chances of a blowout on a tubed tire are exponentially higher than a tubeless? There is no argument about the fact that tubeless tires are much safer than tubed ones!

References:

Buddy, the blowout I mentioned was for a 'Tubed' type tire being used as a 'Tubeless'. Yes, I do realize that the tube blows.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

I am not sure if you do realize that the chances of a blowout on a tubed tire are exponentially higher than a tubeless? There is no argument about the fact that tubeless tires are much safer than tubed ones!

Needless to mention the easy repairability of tubeless punctures!

What he is referring to is the tendency of tyre shops to fit tube type tyres as tubeless on to alloy rims. Which can be done, is done.

But just because you use a tube type tyre as a tubeless, does not make it tubeless, nor does it confer on it all the undoubtable advantage of tubeless.

[unk9ja]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Thanks! So the front Secura Sport I'm assuming has to be fitted with a tube? Does it fit easily under the stock mudguard? And the rear Seura Vertigo Sport fits on the stock rim of the Duke as a tubeless - or do you have to fit that with a tube as well? Does that tyre (120 section) stay in place safely and hold air, inspite of being fited to a rim dsigned to take a 150 section tyre stock? Would be really great if you could get me the ansers to these questions from your rally friend. Yeah, a friend and I both on Dukes are also planning the circuit in late September-early October.

No the tyre rubs against the mudguard. Check out this which has been carried out by a xbhp member during his trip to the Ladakh circuit. A cheap and effective solution coupled with the dust boot for the front fork and a rubber flap for the mudguard.





Yes the tyres does fit comfortable as per him. Need to check/ experience this out. I had visited a dealer and he too has confirmed the fit. Planning to buy the tires next month end and put on a few kms in between to check its performance.

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

Buddy, the blowout I mentioned was for a 'Tubed' type tire being used as a 'Tubeless'. Yes, I do realize that the tube blows.

Originally Posted by ebonho

What he is referring to is the tendency of tyre shops to fit tube type tyres as tubeless on to alloy rims. Which can be done, is done.

But just because you use a tube type tyre as a tubeless, does not make it tubeless, nor does it confer on it all the undoubtable advantage of tubeless.

My Bad, I guess I should read more carefully :(

[unk9ja]

Originally Posted by ebonho

And the rear Seura Vertigo Sport fits on the stock rim of the Duke as a tubeless - or do you have to fit that with a tube as well? Does that tyre (120 section) stay in place safely and hold air, inspite of being fited to a rim dsigned to take a 150 section tyre stock?

Doc check out these from a fellow Duker from bangalore who aims to hit the Ladakh drive with the Ceat. I will check with him on the performance of these and get some details.

Cost of a pair of these tubeless are 4500INR as per him. And he has purchased these from Madhus, Bangalore.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by unk9ja

Doc check out these from a fellow Duker from bangalore who aims to hit the Ladakh drive with the Ceat. I will check with him on the performance of these and get some details.

Cost of a pair of these tubeless are 4500INR as per him. And he has purchased these from Madhus, Bangalore.

Very good option. Especially both tubeless. What is the size of the front tyre? In my experience the Vertigo Sport (rear one) is a little scary on tarmac under braking sometimes. Not so the Secura Sport (font one) which is pretty great for cornering as well (once you get used to the initial increase in resistance in the handle movements). All this is my experience with these tyres shod on a Bullet of course .... have no idea how they behave on a Duke.

[amit_purohit20]

My experience with the above tyre on rear wheel of RTR180:
1) It does not corner well as other tyres. Although nothing very serious to complain unless you corner very hard.
2) The tyre is good in slush for sure. Also on gravel its good but dont trust your luck beyond a limit.
3) On road in wet conditions the tyre is better than crappy stock TVS tyres, it does not slip but at the same time it does not inspire confidence to be fast. Till now I never had slips but I drive very safe on wet roads.
4) On dry roads the grip is ok, hmm braking is a bit tricky but we can expect it to have some less grip on-road as its a button type tyre.
5) The biggest problem with this tyre is it follows the ridges on the road which run parallel to the direction of motorcycle travel. So you might find the bike pulling you in the direction of the parallel ridges (usually these ridges on road are formed during road reconstruction).
6) Its not a soft compound tyre so better protection against any punctures. Being tubeless repairing will be easy too.

[unk9ja]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Very good option. Especially both tubeless. What is the size of the front tyre?

Doc, the sizes are Front 110/80/17 Rear 120/80/17.

I had a chat with him yesterday and he has sent his blog of the Ladakh on a CBR. The link is as follows:
bangaloretolehsolo.blogspot.in

[nasirkaka]

Very good option. Especially both tubeless. What is the size of the front tyre? In my experience the Vertigo Sport (rear one) is a little scary on tarmac under braking sometimes. Not so the Secura Sport (font one) which is pretty great for cornering as well (once you get used to the initial increase in resistance in the handle movements). All this is my experience with these tyres shod on a Bullet of course .... have no idea how they behave on a Duke.

Been using the same vertigo sports rear (tubeless made, but using it with a tube), and secura sport front, on my C5, for a while now. Both 18". I am just about ok with the rear, but not too happy with front secura sport. tends to pull straight at corners. Also, after experiencing the metz on the 390 combined with ABS, am a bit nervous while riding the bull, given the fact the momentum it generates, and brakes being not so sharp. I have been contemplating getting tyres from Continental GT for my bull (front: 100/90-18, 56 H Pirelli Sport Demon, Rear:130/70-18, 63 H Pirelli Sport Demon) as most of my ride will be on the tarmac. Man, these metz are spoiling us for sure..

[unk9ja]

Originally Posted by ebonho

What is the size of the front tyre?

Some pics after the mounting the tires on the Duke. Final damage is 5200INR after fitment.









And the Youtube link to the ride is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWhY...ature=youtu.be

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by unk9ja

Attachment 1245353

So no modification to the front fender needed. That's super news. Thanks buddy.

I do not know about the grip, the cornering, the braking, or the handling with these, and no one will know untill doing at least a thousand odd multi terrain kms on this combination.

BUT

What I can immediately see is that these tyres solve one HUGE problem of the KTM Dukes, both the 200s and more so the 390s.

And that is damage/bending of the rim edges.

Because you finally have a proper side wall and air cushion to protect from edge impacts when leaning.

I am frankly surprised that no one at Bajaj/KTM have worked on this yet - after over 2 years of the first bikes hitting the roads.

And the first reported cases of rim edges bending.

The solution is pretty obvious. Has been for some timenow frankly. Yes it might mean loss of some of the super sharp handling. But the current situation is not even a Devil's alternative.

[aditya.bhardwaj]

Originally Posted by ebonho

So no modification to the front fender needed. That's super news. Thanks buddy.

I do not know about the grip, the cornering, the braking, or the handling with these, and no one will know untill doing at least a thousand odd multi terrain kms on this combination.

BUT

What I can immediately see is that these tyres solve one HUGE problem of the KTM Dukes, both the 200s and more so the 390s.

And that is damage/bending of the rim edges.

Because you finally have a proper side wall and air cushion to protect from edge impacts when leaning.

I am frankly surprised that no one at Bajaj/KTM have worked on this yet - after over 2 years of the first bikes hitting the roads.

And the first reported cases of rim edges bending.

The solution is pretty obvious. Has been for some timenow frankly. Yes it might mean loss of some of the super sharp handling. But the current situation is not even a Devil's alternative.

Doc, the person who has the above duke said that the tire does rub the front fender. After running for around 1500 kms it becomes fine.

By the way, I am getting the Michelin pilot streets for my bike tomorrow.