[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ebonho

P.S. And yes, the foot lever position of the Dukes (200 and 390) are definitely adjustable. Surprized you did not know this. One of the earliest things I needed to do to my Baby Duke in the very early days, before I could start comfortably start covering/operating my rear brake (gear lever was not as much of an issue, though I adjusted it equidistant as well to maintain ergonomic symmetry).

Hey Doc. Just so that I understand this correctly, I am well aware that the brake lever as well as the gear lever can be adjusted. I have infact done that.

My question was specifically for the foot-pegs. I dont think these are adjustable. I hope I am wrong though and you can correct me.

Like you had mentioned the details on this very thread reagrding how the rear brake lever can be adjusted (down to the detail of which nut, its placement etc), could you advise how the footpegs can be moved around?

Thanks!

[shan_ned]

Originally Posted by GreaseMonk

It looks like Race Dynamics has officially released the PowerTronic piggyback ECU for the 390.
Source: http://racedynamics.in/powertronic-ktm-duke-390/

Some points from the site:


One point I was confused about with their power\torque charts though is why their stock figures are cut off at around 8800 - 9200 RPM? Doesn't the stock bike redline at around 10,500 RPM? Shouldn't a dyno be able to measure all the way upto this point?

Originally Posted by Psycho

Well that's where the stock cut off and that's where the drop happens and no it does not redline at 10,500.

The bike tested happens to be mine and the charts are accurate as I was there when the dyno pulls were being done and have had it on my bike for a couple of months now.

My apologies for digging the old posts made on the dyno charts. The dyno chart (for the stock testing) looked erroneous and misleading. I am posting this information so that things are clarified for the guys who are going through this thread.

The guys at the racedynamics seemed to have acknowledged some error in the dyno chart (for stock settings) which was indicating about the drop in power delivery post 8800 RPM. It looks like they have rectified it and posted a new chart. Hope it clears some of the confusion.

For more information, please refer this link :
http://www.ktmduke390forum.com/forum...html#post66226

Based on the new chart, the power curve starts dropping post 9700 RPM. I guess the rev limiter kicks in around 10300 RPM though.

[sharanvenu]

I see a lot of people doubting the quality control of KTM, doubting the capabilities of the Duke and just thought I would pen my thoughts on it.

I've pretty much spent the last few years on a motorcycle, thinking about a motorcycle, fixing a motorcycle, almost crashing a motorcycle, gazing longingly at a motorcycle and pushing a dead motorcycle around a parking garage looking for somebody to give me a push start.

From what I learnt from spending time on a motorcycle, you sit right down on top of an engine with wheels, and the second you start moving, you realize that even our posted speed limits are still three to eight times faster than our species was ever meant to go. Our stupid eyeballs and ears and brains simply cannot reconcile our established rate of travel without all the buffers of a car's protective shell around us, because our instincts understand that this should not be possible. But on a motorcycle, suddenly you comprehend the wrongness of speed. You feel every tiny bump in the road as you hurtle over them at a sacrilegious pace, the wind screaming in your ears, because that's what happens when you try to outrace the very air itself, objects flying by too quickly for your eyes to fully register. Its pretty much like a bicycle, except that this one hates you and will try everything to throw you away from its back.

And the best part about motorcycling is that you can never, ever have the perfect machine. Its all about you getting used to the bike. You can never have a bike that's free from niggles and its better not to ride the bike if you get upset over small things like a little more free play on the throttle, a small noise from the sprocket etc. Motorcycling is not for people with OCD. Either you can try and fix things till you are satisfied (Which obviously has the most infinitesimal probability possible) or you can just shut up and start riding or you can walk away.

Yes, its imperative to maintain your ride. But for a few of niggles here and there, its not fair to blame a bike and making a statement that the bike is not good enough and not worth the money.

If you cannot get used to the bike in say, 5 km of riding, walk away. Its imperative that you not blame the motor cycle for your incompetence. Senior bulleteers like Doc will be able to tell us about at least a dozen instances of limping back on Bullets from lands and roads unheard of. But still, they will tell, the bike is not to be blamed.

I have seen legends like Randhawa and inspirations like Nasirkaka struggle with the 500, but they respect and love the machine for the beauty that she is. I sincerely doubt whether Nasirkaka will let go of the 500 even when he gets his Bonnie

Coming back to the Duke.
Cracked wheels? This is a tarmac machine and its not designed to run off-road or through potholes at that speed.

Pot holes on highways? Well, you must have seen enough highways before you started riding the duke. You didn't anticipate it and you are the culprit. You saw the pothole and couldn't stop in time. You were above the limits of your reflexes. Its not a QC issue.

Over heating? Well, we are talking about a highway machine capable of doing 170kmph. What are you doing with that machine inside the city? Live with it. Period.

Throttle too responsive/Not responding enough? Learn how to do it properly.

1st Gear too short? You've got other gears to play with. Use them. And who says you can only start in 1st gear?

Yes, I would have liked a larger fuel tank and a twin head lamp. But thats it, everything else is to die for.

I am not trying to say that the Duke is a perfect machine. It has its own short comings and its the way how you adjust your riding style that matters. I graduated from a Unicorn and an RE and now I had to re-learn how to ride. I had to change the way I think, anticipate and respond and I know one day I will be there.

So my advice to some worried minds over here is to stop worrying and start enjoying your ride.

No offence please, folks. Its just a school of thought.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by sharanvenu

..Cracked wheels? This is a tarmac machine and its not designed to run off-road or through potholes at that speed.

Pot holes on highways? Well, you must have seen enough highways before you started riding the duke. You didn't anticipate it and you are the culprit. You saw the pothole and couldn't stop in time. You were above the limits of your reflexes. Its not a QC issue.

Agreed to all the other points except this. 70% or more of the rim cracking incidents I have heard, happened at sane speeds of 40-60kmph and that too most of the times during 1-up riding! It should be noted that other, and even heavier bikes with alloy wheels are being ridden through these same pothole infested roads. I have heard of rim bending along its circumference before. But KTM has introduced me to the rims that breaks off its spokes like egg shells!

And to add to it. This is the only point that keeps me worried about the bike.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Hey Doc. Just so that I understand this correctly, I am well aware that the brake lever as well as the gear lever can be adjusted. I have infact done that.

My question was specifically for the foot-pegs. I dont think these are adjustable. I hope I am wrong though and you can correct me.

Like you had mentioned the details on this very thread reagrding how the rear brake lever can be adjusted (down to the detail of which nut, its placement etc), could you advise how the footpegs can be moved around?

Thanks!

Sorry my bad bro. I misunderstood in that case. Short of checking if the RC rider foot peg assemblies are bolt on for the Duke, I don't see any other way out instead of fabricating something from scratch, like a lot of the rally guys have done to move the foot controls slightly forward.

Personally, I would try to see the feasibility of the former and try the latter only if there is a tried and tested rally-built kit available in Delhi - which it should seeing as to how many Dukes have been hitting the Raid and SJOBA .....

If possibly please check for a nice bash plate too - and let me know as well.

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

This is the only point that keeps me worried about the bike.

Agree 100%. Till now in 3 years of Dukes in India, this is the only as yet unaddressed deal breaker.


But I am very confident that Bajaj will crack this one as well - pun intended.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by ebonho

But I am very confident that Bajaj will crack this one as well - pun intended.

Damn! Laughed out a little too loud on that one! Everyone around my cubicle is staring at me! For the record, I am blaming this on you Doc!!

[ashwin1224]

@sharanvenu That was a great read. I agree with most of your points. However the cracking issue highly dubious. Some have reported wheels cracking at speeds under 40kmph, in this very thread IIRC and I have to say it has impacted on me as a rider and it shows. During group rides, I am usually the most calm. I love my duke with all my heart but sometimes I think I ride with a lot more care and respect for the machine. I sort of treat the duke like a bullet (i think thats not good sign considering im just 22)

On a side note, I want everyone to close their eyes and just picture your bike in your minds. I feel the brilliance and the beauty of the KTM is being ignored as none of the posts in the past few pages gave me goosebumps like the initial posts and first ride experiences gave. What a machine <3

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Sorry my bad bro. I misunderstood in that case. Short of checking if the RC rider foot peg assemblies are bolt on for the Duke, I don't see any other way out

No worries Doc.

I need to get the bike serviced and will check with the SC reps when I visit. I will check with them on swapping handlebars too

This wont be for a few weeks though. Am recovering from a muscle / nerve injury so cannot ride for the next few weeks, just when the weather gods were smiling upon us



Edit - There are bolt on items available on Ebay. But I do not have any user experiences / reviews to go with it. Would the brake and gear levers not need to be adjustable too for the adjustment to be truly effective (as in not just facilitate an up / down but a front / back movement too)? RC levers are further set towards the rear, actually engancing the "on your knees and beg" riding position. I would like to move the pegs maybe half an inch or so to the front so that it liberates some more room. I am seriously dabbling in the idea of a custom (padded) seat for that very reason. While I am Ok with the comfort of the stock seat, That extra inch of moving space will work wonders IMO

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by sharanvenu

I see a lot of people doubting the quality control of KTM, doubting the capabilities of the Duke and just thought I would pen my thoughts on it.

Its pretty much like a bicycle, except that this one hates you and will try everything to throw you away from its back.

And the best part about motorcycling is that you can never, ever have the perfect machine. Its all about you getting used to the bike. You can never have a bike that's free from niggles and its better not to ride the bike if you get upset over small things like a little more free play on the throttle, a small noise from the sprocket etc. Motorcycling is not for people with OCD.

Yes, its imperative to maintain your ride. But for a few of niggles here and there, its not fair to blame a bike and making a statement that the bike is not good enough and not worth the money.

If you cannot get used to the bike in say, 5 km of riding, walk away. Its imperative that you not blame the motor cycle for your incompetence.

Coming back to the Duke.
Cracked wheels? This is a tarmac machine and its not designed to run off-road or through potholes at that speed.

Pot holes on highways? Well, you must have seen enough highways before you started riding the duke. You didn't anticipate it and you are the culprit. You saw the pothole and couldn't stop in time. You were above the limits of your reflexes. Its not a QC issue.

Over heating? Well, we are talking about a highway machine capable of doing 170kmph. What are you doing with that machine inside the city? Live with it. Period.

Throttle too responsive/Not responding enough? Learn how to do it properly.

1st Gear too short? You've got other gears to play with. Use them. And who says you can only start in 1st gear?


So my advice to some worried minds over here is to stop worrying and start enjoying your ride.

No offence please, folks. Its just a school of thought.

Before the purchase and more so because it is a costly one and hence one needs to be sure , I went through the entire x-bhp ownership thread(Silent reading) and more or less the entire t-bhp(asked few stuffs ) thread not to mention few other forums some of them having overseas members . In the last 100 page itself in this topic , you will find 2 distinct owners expressing sheer hopelessness in a mere 5k km clocked . Of course one can and should point out the happy ones exceed but in 21st century , even 10% failure rate(hypothetical number ) is catastrophic .

If I were to reach a decision on what I read , then purchasing the bike for even 50k less would have been an act of stupidity and one of the outcome of going through those pages was on paper QC is highly questionable in the perfection oriented current global automobile industry , I still purchased it because all things considered it felt like a good proposition and there are qualities present that are not there even in a bike that stands next to it and costs twice as much , also online the complaints will always exceed praises because me included mostly post when we have an issue . This is important because when I or another user posts a query , it is assumed we purchased the bike expecting perfection but that is not the case . I do pray that I don't have to lament the purchase after a cracked wheel but the rest I have prepared myself to bear mentally and financially if it comes to the worst .

I know I am going to face slight niggles here and there , that doesn't means that I blindly accept them when there is an online forum where I can post my impression and at least verify if the niggle is simply a characteristic or I should be worried . If this being over compulsive , then that has to be excused or ignored . City of bareilly is very limiting in the sense I cannot compare with another bike unlike pune or delhi so for folks like me , the forum is even more important . Please DO NOT mis-interpret that as mindless cribbing , I assumed a disclaimer is not needed with every query that I am thoroughly enjoying the bike but all the same I will like to better it if possible .

I found it necessary to type this long explanation because from tone of some posts here, I assume mine and other's queries are being misinterpreted as a full on assault on the bike . You guys(I hope my casual salutation is fine , I am younger than most if not all but sir or worse uncle is too formal ) have to understand very few are stupid or carefree enough to plonk in 2 lakh(especially at my age with my own money , a more mature person has a higher tolerance mentally and pocket wise ) without a fair idea if not more what to expect and what can possibly go wrong , still purchasing it is a show of faith than is hardly overshadowed by criticizing certain aspects or on a milder tone cross checking potential anomalies in behavior .


On some of the observations you have posted ,
I disagree that a 5km ride is enough to form an opinion , at least not for a newbie like me and I suppose at my age , most are newbies . Any vehicles demands more attention than that , I do agree that the first 5/10km on this bike felt a lot more confidence inspiring than say first time I rode a p220 or r15 so that did matter to me hence in a way I end up agreeing I learnt to ride on an old CI enfield hence my initial adaptability issues with r15 etc when I tried those casually .

Cracked wheels - just like you say we are aware of roads here , so are bajaj and as such it is all the more important they take extra care . We don't have the sweeping curves of Austria and this is a bike meant for the street and not just track days , personally not faced any but the feedback from few have made me cautious . I don't let it affect me though , I anyways take it easy on bad roads .

1st gear - I am aware there are 5 more , should I let that stop myself from at least expressing my experience and checking if it is normal or not because it doesn't feels normal all thing considered .

I have not taken offence to your post , you meant it in a positive manner i assume and that was my reasoning to myself when I went for the bike aware it can crack under me or my coolant goes missing one fine day so I relate to it . Rest assured even if my or someone else posts only composed of issues faced , it still means we are enjoying the ride , at least I am . When your first bike is an enfield older than you , it takes a lot to experience buyers remorse

[mithunvvijayan]

Originally Posted by basuroy

Before the purchase and more so because it is a costly one and hence one needs to be sure...

Rest assured even if my or someone else posts only composed of issues faced , it still means we are enjoying the ride , at least I am . When your first bike is an enfield older than you , it takes a lot to experience buyers remorse

Basuroy, there are different kinds of people in this world. Some say things out loud some do not. Some are condescending, some are accommodating.
A forum always will have every kind. If you are a newbie (like myself) you better make use of such a large and diverse knowledge base and let go of lope sided opinions. And after sometime, if you are really passionate about biking, you will also become an experienced rider eventually and will be able to advise others.

You have also hightighted the slightest niggles in the 390. And many of the experienced riders have responded kindly. We all have been enlightened from your questions and their answers. So take the hit and move forward. Cheers!!

And in that spirit, I present some other problems

A noise which is similar to tappet noise. When I brought it to the SA's attention, he said it cannot be rectified as there isn't such a shim size available. Today ( day after my first service ) I noticed that the break fluid is not seen in the break fluid level at all. Again I went to the service center, which was en route to my house from my office. He said that the break fluid is so transparent that it is impossible to see !!!

He didn't even take a look at the level. Since it was dark I let it go. I will check if there is any fluid, by opening the case. If there isn't as I suspect, I will make sure the same guy tops it up.

Mod Note : Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Thanks!

[ashwin1224]

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

He said that the break fluid is so transparent that it is impossible to see !!!

It is in fact highly transparent! I faced the same problem, after a friend pointed out my brake fluid reservoir is empty. I went to the service center and had the mech open the reservoir in front of me, and to my surprise it was full to the brim.

I think if it goes down you will see just a line which is the surface of the fluid.

[shan_ned]

@basuraoy, you are quite correct in what you have said. I understand your point of view. In fact what is the purpose of this thread ??? It is for all the owners to share their experience, feelings, emotions and thoughts on owning and riding the duke. It is going to be a bag of mixed fruits and that is what this thread is meant for.

Having said that, sharanvenu points are also valid and his intent was more to calm the nerves rather than blaming anyone. You have rightly understood his intent and so keep posting whatever your experience is ... When I was in the middle of typing this post, my mother casually asked me on why the bullet was not in my list of options for getting a new bike. I gave a very casual answer and later I realized how stupid I was. The answer I gave was that the bullets were prone to niggles and problems. My mother replied back with these same words - "If you think that way, then you will end up buying nothing. Niggles and issues are part and parcel of our life and anything we own. So stop thinking too much". Surprised at the casual wisdom of her words and I remained silent for few minutes. What she said is known to all, but we tend to forget it most of the times unless someone, dear to us, reminds us.

More on a tangential note - Yes, few guys in various other internet forums talk bad about the QC at the Bajaj-KTM plant. Let me pen my own thoughts on this. Few guys perceive that dukes are of average quality because they think this way :-
1. Dukes are lot cheaper and so it must be of average quality.
2. Dukes are built in India and so it must be of average quality.
3. Dukes are made by an auto-rickshawala company and so it must be of average quality.
4. Dukes are used by people even belonging to lower income group and so it must of average quality.
5. Dukes don't have a cult following like it's Japanese/American rivals and so it must of average quality.
...
...

So they keep on building some or the other reasons to say why Dukes are inferior. Here, I may sound like a KTM-Bajaj fanboy (which I am not actually), but at the same time, I will not keep quiet if someone has done a great job. KTM-Bajaj needs to be appreciated a lot for their out of box thinking and creativity they have done on the technology front and more importantly on the business model they have arrived at.
That is where most of the rivals are found wanting and suddenly caught by the surprise thrown by KTM_bajaj.
If we look closely at the way how KTM and Bajaj are able to give a superb pricing, they used very simple ideas which are very effective as well.
- Unlike their rivals, the main factor is that their products are manufactured in India to be very cost effective.
- Even when KTM came to India, they didn't start setting up their own plant and do things from the scratch. This would have definitely increased their investment. Rather, they joined hands with Bajaj and started leveraging the existing facilities to be more cost effective.
- Another good idea from the KTM-Bajaj is about sharing most of the body assembly parts (except for the engine and few other stuff) between 200 and 390. This has played a critical role in keeping the cost in control.

I guess there are many more done by KTM-Bajaj to keep the cost in check. So it is not about adding low quality materials. Of course, the dukes are not perfect, but at the same time, I disagree with few who dismiss it just like that. If any other brand adopts similar innovative approach to minimize the cost, then I will appreciate them as well.

[mithunvvijayan]

Originally Posted by shan_ned

1. Dukes are lot cheaper and so it must be of average quality.
2. Dukes are built in India and so it must be of average quality.
3. Dukes are made by an auto-rickshawala company and so it must be of average quality.
4. Dukes are used by people even belonging to lower income group and so it must of average quality.
5. Dukes don't have a cult following like it's Japanese/American rivals and so it must of average quality.

So they keep on building some or the other reasons to say why Dukes are inferior.

You are right to an extent. But I think there are other reasons too. After owning a Bajaj caliber, 2006 RE electra, Pulsar 150, Pulsar 180, Honda Activa, RE Classic 500 in that order, I have seen a marked improvement in the quality in the same order ( except for activa which has not created any headaches for me till date). By quality, I mean the occurrence of niggles.

But when I bought the 390, the graph is again sloping up. And I am quite convinced that it is a QC issue. I think Bajaj is not interested in allocating its resources to improve the QC in domestic bound duke 390, simply because of the price to value proposition it offers. There is really no other choice for an enthusiast at this price range.

But that doesn't mean that the duke is of top quality.

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by shan_ned

@basuraoy, you are quite correct in what you have said. I understand your point of view. In fact what is the purpose of this thread ??? It is for all the owners to share their experience, feelings, emotions and thoughts on owning and riding the duke. It is going to be a bag of mixed fruits and that is what this thread is meant for.

Having said that, sharanvenu points are also valid and his intent was more to calm the nerves rather than blaming anyone. You have rightly understood his intent and so keep posting whatever your experience is ...

More on a tangential note - Yes, few guys in various other internet forums talk bad about the QC at the Bajaj-KTM plant. Let me pen my own thoughts on this. Few guys perceive that dukes are of average quality because they think this way :-
1. Dukes are lot cheaper and so it must be of average quality.
2. Dukes are built in India and so it must be of average quality.
3. Dukes are made by an auto-rickshawala company and so it must be of average quality.
4. Dukes are used by people even belonging to lower income group and so it must of average quality.
5. Dukes don't have a cult following like it's Japanese/American rivals and so it must of average quality.
...
...

So they keep on building some or the other reasons to say why Dukes are inferior. Here, I may sound like a KTM-Bajaj fanboy (which I am not actually), but at the same time, I will not keep quiet if someone has done a great job. KTM-Bajaj needs to be appreciated a lot for their out of box thinking and creativity they have done on the technology front and more importantly on the business model they have arrived at.
That is where most of the rivals are found wanting and suddenly caught by the surprise thrown by KTM_bajaj.
If we look closely at the way how KTM and Bajaj are able to give a superb pricing, they used very simple ideas which are very effective as well.
- Unlike their rivals, the main factor is that their products are manufactured in India to be very cost effective.
- Even when KTM came to India, they didn't start setting up their own plant and do things from the scratch. This would have definitely increased their investment. Rather, they joined hands with Bajaj and started leveraging the existing facilities to be more cost effective.
- Another good idea from the KTM-Bajaj is about sharing most of the body assembly parts (except for the engine and few other stuff) between 200 and 390. This has played a critical role in keeping the cost in control.

I guess there are many more done by KTM-Bajaj to keep the cost in check. So it is not about adding low quality materials. Of course, the dukes are not perfect, but at the same time, I disagree with few who dismiss it just like that. If any other brand adopts similar innovative approach to minimize the cost, then I will appreciate them as well.

This thread will be mundane if no one posts issues or lack of and counter responses(the importance of an ownership thread as opposed to an initial review is how the bike ages over passage of kilometers, the good part a 10 min powerdrift video or overdrive article sums up ) , like I mentioned I arrived at the decision after giving massive importance to this and the similar xbhp thread, I also mentioned the general material on paper should be enough to be reason for worry but all the same I went ahead with the purchase . Suppose that does reflects on the feedback or more importantly the bike itself, both of these threads are among the best ownership reviews because they are harsh and don't hold back be it positive or negative , one gets the full impact of what to expect and that is important for me .


My opinion on bajaj's QC was not influenced by such logic , it is because of the frequency and nature of the issues I came across . Of course before someone suggest one has to put up with them if god forbid they happens , I am ready to do that but all the same it is always better to improve as much as possible .

And I agree that bajaj/ktm partnership has offered a product very significant in our market , again being aware of potential issues and still going for it is I suppose showing appreciation for the bike and a show of faith

[sharanvenu]

I am not here for an ugly spat, but as a fellow rider I will earnestly try to share some little knowledge I have about motorcycling.

Originally Posted by basuroy

Of course one can and should point out the happy ones exceed but in 21st century, even 10% failure rate(hypothetical number) is catastrophic.

Just for the record, Space programs have a 42% failure rate even though they have a lavish budget. Any other research, product or service you can think about would be immediately grounded. But that doesn't prevent many from venturing, right? Well, I am not comparing a space shuttle with our humble 390 here.

Originally Posted by basuroy

I still purchased it because all things considered it felt like a good proposition and there are qualities present that are not there even in a bike that stands next to it and costs twice as much , also online the complaints will always exceed praises because me included mostly post when we have an issue . This is important because when I or another user posts a query , it is assumed we purchased the bike expecting perfection but that is not the case. I do pray that I don't have to lament the purchase after a cracked wheel but the rest I have prepared myself to bear mentally and financially if it comes to the worst.

I suppose this is where it all went wrong. A biker should make a purchase only with his heart and you are bound to be disappointed if you purchased something because it appeared like a value proposition and if you thought you could give the Bonnie a run for its money. And the one and only point that I had in my mind when I penned my post, was to convince fellow riders that a perfect machine doesn't exist. Its a myth, like our perpetual motion machine theorem. Even The V-Rod has achilles heels all over the chasis. It will never take a nice long sloping rightie. You can check up with somebody who rides a V-Rod. And can you guess its range? It can cover like 120 miles on a tank full And at 80 miles, the low fuel warning comes up. Harley, Huh!

Originally Posted by basuroy

I know I am going to face slight niggles here and there , that doesn't means that I blindly accept them when there is an online forum where I can post my impression and at least verify if the niggle is simply a characteristic or I should be worried . If this being over compulsive , then that has to be excused or ignored. City of bareilly is very limiting in the sense I cannot compare with another bike unlike pune or delhi so for folks like me , the forum is even more important . Please DO NOT mis-interpret that as mindless cribbing , I assumed a disclaimer is not needed with every query that I am thoroughly enjoying the bike but all the same I will like to better it if possible.

Questions are always welcome. Bear no doubt in mind regarding that. But It's desirable that you do not arrive at a prejudiced judgement before you even listen to a solution or a suggestion from the plethora of informed seniors here. Judging something and describing something as 'terrible', 'bad design' when you don't have the slightest idea of what is happening is rude. That is my point.

Originally Posted by basuroy

On some of the observations you have posted ,
I disagree that a 5km ride is enough to form an opinion , at least not for a newbie like me and I suppose at my age , most are newbies . Any vehicles demands more attention than that , I do agree that the first 5/10km on this bike felt a lot more confidence inspiring than say first time I rode a p220 or r15 so that did matter to me hence in a way I end up agreeing I learnt to ride on an old CI enfield hence my initial adaptability issues with r15 etc when I tried those casually .

I was about to write 2 km initially . And trust me on this, that's all it takes. If you need more, you seriously should think a lot of times before making that purchase.