[mithunvvijayan]

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

If they are ever (EVER) going for 8000-9000RPM redline without changing the bore/stroke and those pushrods. I would never want to be anywhere near that engine when its revving, let alone be on it.

Push rods will have to go. But why change the bore stroke to reach achieve 8000 rpm. Or is it not technically feasible, I don't know.

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

Okay. Confused about your problem here. You already have a thumper that can do a true 160+.. Did I miss something?

390 sound is a bit more "canny" if you know what I mean, not the characteristic deep bass thump from a bullet.

[Silverflash]

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

Push rods will have to go. But why change the bore stroke to reach achieve 8000 rpm. Or is it not technically feasible, I don't know.



390 sound is a bit more "canny" if you know what I mean, not the characteristic deep bass thump from a bullet.

It is easy to say that they should switch from pushrods to overhead cams or change the bore/stroke or raise the rev limit, but bear in mind who we are talking about here. This is RE, and they have built a pretty successful business on the nostalgic appeal of a bike that looks and sounds and rides a certain way. Not that there's anything wrong with that (I bought a TBTS500), but every single bike in their stable has a variant of the same 2 engines.

What you are asking is for them to strike out in a completely new direction with a bike that would be a radical departure from the one basic design that has been the bedrock of their success. I would love to see it, as may others, but RE has to evaluate whether enough of us will to justify the effort and risk.

At least in the near future, I think it is unlikely.

[basuroy]

Rode the bike to the dealership today to collect the registration document and got the throttle free play adjusted (no perceptible difference felt though ) . Forgot to get the chain tension adjusted , it is slacking as per manual description and while the manual is clear on how to do it , I wish the first time to be done in front of/by the mechanic at SVC . Purchased a can of chain lube from them (Bajaj OKS chain lube - decent enough ? ) , some suggestions please on how to do it -
1. I don't have any chain cleaning spray , failing to procure a WD 40 , can I for the time being just clean it with water or not clean and directly lube it (there is no grease accumulation , just dust which should be removed by water - should I allow the water to evaporate first ? ) .
2. Do we apply the chain lube from inside or outside , my understanding is inside but the SVC guy said outside . I intend to lube it by manually rotate the chain by pushing bike .
3.After application , can I ride it or allow it some time to settle in ?

Removed the rear tire hugger at home , looks better now . While it didn't appear so , I still wish to confirm that none of the 4 bolts (2 on each side securing the frame) offered any structural stability to the axle/other parts ?

What is the average mileage figure returned within city riding , average speed and gear(s) used frequently will be appreciated ? I am getting about 22/23 , 35kmph avg and 2nd/3rd gear use .

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by basuroy

1. I don't have any chain cleaning spray , failing to procure a WD 40 , can I for the time being just clean it with water or not clean and directly lube it (there is no grease accumulation , just dust which should be removed by water - should I allow the water to evaporate first ? ) .

In case WD40 or chain clean is not available, use kerosene or diesel. Water will not do any good.

2. Do we apply the chain lube from inside or outside , my understanding is inside but the SVC guy said outside . I intend to lube it by manually rotate the chain by pushing bike .
3.After application , can I ride it or allow it some time to settle in ?

I lube it both inside and outside. And let it settle for a while after lubing. And best practice is to warm up the chain by riding the bike a bit before lubing.

..I still wish to confirm that none of the 4 bolts (2 on each side securing the frame) offered any structural stability to the axle/other parts ?

Nop. The allen key bolts are to support the hugger only. You can remove it.

[pisthpeeps]

Took test ride of D390 recently.
Likes: Riding posture, acceleration, front brakes, horn
Dislikes: Rear brake lever position, Engine braking higher while shifting in lower gears, rear brake not confidence inspiring - felt like it may lock when used alone. Did not know how to check the ABS status. After test ride asked the Sales person if ABS was ON and he said yes.

Surprisingly in spite of being from HH Splendor background, I did not feel any difficulty in riding D390. Shifted up only after rpm reached considerable range. Was able to reach only till 4th gear in that short test ride. But not once did it stall or lug. I was expecting it to stall while i was taking a U turn in first gear. But completely no issues. Wife got scared as pillion as expected, due to the acceleration and smaller seat. Overall I liked the bike very much.

I am 5'6/67 Kgs. D390 was not difficult to get on top and I was able to tip toe both legs quite ok. D200 test bike went for tyre change and was not available and hence could not test it. There was a display bike though. Found hard to get on top of the D200(Display bike). That extra 10mm is creating discomfort while trying to on board. But once i am on top, not much difference on tip toeing the legs in D200. Confused between D390/D200/200NS.

As you might have guessed, my heart is with D390 as ABS and seat height are major pluses for me.

Affordability: I can afford D390.

Usage: Office commute and weekend chores within city. Chances of long rides(> 100kms) is almost nil. Have never done long rides before. In case i buy D390,
-I may do long drives. But not sure at this point.
-I can make the office commute interesting by using an alternate route which involves 20km of 6 lane tolled highway at the cost of an extra 8km in total one way.

Pillion: Have a Car and TVS Wego in case i need to travel with family for short trips. So not a major concern.

Few questions:
I am worried that I may not use the D390 to its full potential. In case i switch companies and take a city only route i may not be able to use the 5th and 6th gears at all . Should i still go ahead with 390 due to it VFM proposition? And there is not much difference in mileage between a 200 & 390 as far as i understand. ~8kms diff?
With ABS off, is there any major difference in braking between 390 and 200?
If i shave off the seat by 10mm in D200 will it impact ride comfort?
Should i wait for any future models that suit my needs(Front and back disc brakes, ABS, 150-250CC range)? Apache 180 will fit my needs but two things prevent me from buying it
- slightly crouching ride position. I prefer straight posture.
- somehow i feel the tech is not latest in it and it desperately needs an upgrade. Not sure if tvs is planning for any upgrade soon.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

390 sound is a bit more "canny" if you know what I mean, not the characteristic deep bass thump from a bullet.

You cannot expect to have that golden thump (that the bullets once possessed) in motorcycles complying to current emission regulations with two catalytic converters shoved up their pipes. To make them loud you have to drill out the catalytic converters running the risk of throwing the machine's on board computer off balance for the sake of auditory pleasure.
regards adrian

[VW2010]

Usage: Office commute and weekend chores within city. Chances of long rides(> 100kms) is almost nil. Have never done long rides before. In case i buy D390,

The 200 is much more fun to ride in the city. The 390 is fun as well but the 200 is just high revving happy bike. If possible pick an used on which is far cheaper and try it out for few months before taking a decision.


For your needs the 200 makes more sense for its high revving gear ratio that will be fun to ride around in the city.

I rode my 390 to work everyday and it was supreme fun. Heats a little more and has some niggles here and there that is discussed in this forum.

On highways, the 390 comes to life ahead of 200 for its composed easy to do top ends which the 200 will be churning out at higher rpm on comparison.

[mithunvvijayan]

Originally Posted by Silverflash

What you are asking is for them to strike out in a completely new direction with a bike that would be a radical departure from the one basic design that has been the bedrock of their success. I would love to see it, as may others, but RE has to evaluate whether enough of us will to justify the effort and risk.

At least in the near future, I think it is unlikely.

They struck out on a totally different path with their cafe racer. If someone said 15 years back, that he wished, had RE introduced fuel injection and ABS, people would have laughed at him.

Originally Posted by adrian

You cannot expect to have that golden thump (that the bullets once possessed) in motorcycles complying to current emission regulations with two catalytic converters shoved up their pipes. To make them loud you have to drill out the catalytic converters running the risk of throwing the machine's on board computer off balance for the sake of auditory pleasure.
regards adrian

Not expecting bro. Just was explaining what my idea was about the difference between a bullet thump and a 390 sound.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

They struck out on a totally different path with their cafe racer. If someone said 15 years back, that he wished, had RE introduced fuel injection and ABS, people would have laughed at him.

Not expecting bro. Just was explaining what my idea was about the difference between a bullet thump and a 390 sound.

Hi Mithun, I was just mentioning that the throaty roar of the exhausts ( that of the RD, RX, Shogun, Yezdi) are all bygones. Even the bullets are making that constipated sound.
The problem with Royal Enfield is that even with change in engine platforms, which took a whole 50 years, the top speed remains constant. A well tuned CI bullet hits the same speed that the continental GT does and difference in cost between the two is a bomb. I will buy another bullet only if it is a twin engine with an elevated top speed, not an elevated price tag.
regards adrian

[Silverflash]

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

They struck out on a totally different path with their cafe racer. If someone said 15 years back, that he wished, had RE introduced fuel injection and ABS, people would have laughed at him.

The point is that fuel injection or ABS do not change the fundamental character of a Royal Enfield engine, which is a single cylinder push rod long stroke thumper. That made it a change that still enabled their bikes to sound and ride like they have for eons.

The changes you are asking for - overhead cams, higher revs, etc. - are all drastic alterations to this basic engine identity. Not the same at all, and far more disruptive to their brand identity.

I'd love to see it, and maybe it will come in time, but not soon.

[mithunvvijayan]

Originally Posted by adrian

Hi Mithun, I was just mentioning that the throaty roar of the exhausts ( that of the RD, RX, Shogun, Yezdi) are all bygones. Even the bullets are making that constipated sound.
The problem with Royal Enfield is that even with change in engine platforms, which took a whole 50 years, the top speed remains constant. A well tuned CI bullet hits the same speed that the continental GT does and difference in cost between the two is a bomb. I will buy another bullet only if it is a twin engine with an elevated top speed, not an elevated price tag.
regards adrian

I think MODs will soon intervene with this line of posts on RE.

I am still hopeful, especially because there have been serious changes in the past 7 years in the RE line up. And from what I hear, there are larger capacity bikes in the offing.

Originally Posted by Silverflash

The point is that fuel injection or ABS do not change the fundamental character of a Royal Enfield engine, which is a single cylinder push rod long stroke thumper. That made it a change that still enabled their bikes to sound and ride like they have for eons.

The changes you are asking for - overhead cams, higher revs, etc. - are all drastic alterations to this basic engine identity. Not the same at all, and far more disruptive to their brand identity.

I'd love to see it, and maybe it will come in time, but not soon.

I have heard from one of my friends who had been working with Royal Enfield, that RE is working with larger capacity engines. He told me about it 3 years ago, while he was still at RE. As you said drastic changes to the mechanicals are always welcomed skeptically, people will eventually accept it, like what happened with the gear shifter which was shifted to the "wrong" side.

On a different note, I am giving my bike to the service station today evening to sort out the stalling problem. They said I need to keep the bike for a few days with them. They need to remove the head and other things, it seems. Hope the issue gets sorted out.

[basuroy]

Guys assistance required again, took the bike out just now only to find the rear is flat . The culprit being a very small nail embedded deep down the spine of the tire . Three of us could not find any other puncture so looks like there is just one .

Right now I am leaving to purchase a hand pump to re-inflate the tire first , I have never owned a tubeless before and please tell me if a premium quality tire like this can be fixed the same way any generic tubeless is done . Any particular care i should ask the mechanic to take and some usual habits that can potentially cause harm to this bike ?
If the job is done to an acceptable level(doubt any place in bareilly can achieve desirable level) , any long term drawbacks I might face or ride in peace ?

Also out of curiosity , how many punctures normally a tire can take before being written off ?

Any other suggestions related to the topic will be much appreciated . I have never faced this situation before so not sure what I should be worried/cautious about and not .

Thank you

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by basuroy

..please tell me if a premium quality tire like this can be fixed the same way any generic tubeless is done. Any particular care i should ask the mechanic to take and some usual habits that can potentially cause harm to this bike ?

Procedure is the same for all the tubeless tires. No particular care required as far as he insists to take out the tire.

If the job is done to an acceptable level(doubt any place in bareilly can achieve desirable level) , any long term drawbacks I might face or ride in peace ?

If you are clocking the miles fast, the 'long term' you are referring to is only around 12k Kms or less in 1 year or less for the rear Metz. Nothing will happen in that time period.

Also out of curiosity , how many punctures normally a tire can take before being written off ?

No hard and fast rule, depends on the severity of the puncture. A big puncture that cannot be fixed with even 2 or 3 mushroom plugs will require a tube to be used.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

Doc, I am not saying that 390 is the ideal bike for me. But there isn't any which fits my requirements.

Because I believe that at heart you are still a Bulleteer.

BUT you just bought the wrong Bullet. Because it wasn't a Bullet to begin with.

And then you proceeded to correct that mistake by selling that Bullet. And buying a 390!

When actually you should have instead have been buying the right Bullet.

A real Bullet.

Why do we have to go that far. When they introduced the new UCE engines, RE managed to increase the power out put by almost 50%. This is done without increasing the torque or changing the bore/stroke.
If they can increase the max rpm to around 8000-9000 rpm, power above 40 bhp is quite possible. Liquid cooling, lowering the frictional loses, changes in head, piston, crank etc might be the way to go.

Please buddy. I am weeping tears of frustration here. And I cannot decide which is stinging more, my palms or my face.

PLEASE for Bullet Baba's sake get rid of the numbers!

What does that super duper new age cutting edge Bullet DO ON THE ROAD what my and VW's decade old cast iron thumpers always did and still do?

I am actually enjoying the 390. If we putter around below 5000 rpm, the engine sound is quite audible akin to yezdi. It may not the ideal bike for me but there isn't any other choice either.

See what I am saying? You sold a Bullet. Or what sells as a Bullet today.

Then you bought a 390.

Now you ride the 390 like a Bullet.

You need a Bullet. A real Bullet.

Originally Posted by VW2010

The only ideal thing i did in my life was to sell a bike and buy the 500 and i paid a little over 60K. And now its an investment

Ditto! But in 2004 it was 72,000 on road here in Pune bro.

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

If they produce such a bike even if for say 2.5-3L I think it's worth it. Didn't say exactly, but some resemblance? At lower speeds?

The British made such bikes in the 1950s. We Indians took their designs but still 60 years later with all our modern technology and umpteen contracts to tuning gurus and engine and gearbox manufacturers, we still have not made a bike that can beat what they made then.

I want to have my cake and eat it too. Imagine a thumper at 140kmph.

Want a thumper that can do a true ton? Buy a BSA Goldstar. No Indian Bullet still comes even close.

But many of the 390 owners here are bulleteers or have been. So why do they own both the chalk and the cheese?

Because most of them recognize that both bikes are chalk and cheese. And are comfortable in that knowledge and choice.

Originally Posted by Silverflash

every single bike in their stable has a variant of the same 2 engines.

Try 7-8.

What you are asking is for them to strike out in a completely new direction with a bike that would be a radical departure from the one basic design that has been the bedrock of their success.

They already did that with the UCEs. Even the LB AVLs still had the basic structure of the original British motor.

I would love to see it, as may others, but RE has to evaluate whether enough of us will to justify the effort and risk.

I am done with RE, as are many others from my Bullet generation.

We already have the one Bullet we need. And will keep them.

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

They struck out on a totally different path with their cafe racer. If someone said 15 years back, that he wished, had RE introduced fuel injection and ABS, people would have laughed at him.

Yet the Cafe Racer space ship cannot lose from its rear view mirrors a mildly modded 12 year old cast iron bullock cart. Something somewhere is very wrong. Or we are all in the thrall of a mass PC Sarcar-ish hypnotic spell where we are conditioned to believe that things are really changing.

Originally Posted by adrian

The problem with Royal Enfield is that even with change in engine platforms, which took a whole 50 years, the top speed remains constant. A well tuned CI bullet hits the same speed that the continental GT does and difference in cost between the two is a bomb.

Exactly. What I said before. Tried and tested. ON THE ROAD.

Originally Posted by Silverflash

The point is that fuel injection or ABS do not change the fundamental character of a Royal Enfield engine, which is a single cylinder push rod long stroke thumper.

But it did! The moment the company shifted to FI, the entire character and beat of the bike simply changed. Less generous guys than me have likened the new UCEs to big Karizmas that only look like Bullets. Even the CV carb on the AVLs changed the character of the VM slide carbed cast iron thumpers. But that was easier (and very frequently) remedied.

Originally Posted by mithunvvijayan

I am still hopeful, especially because there have been serious changes in the past 7 years in the RE line up. And from what I hear, there are larger capacity bikes in the offing.

Do wake me up when an Indian Bullet does a true ton stock from the factory. Till then, me and my other Bullet brothers will join the company in their ongoing communal slumber.

I have heard from one of my friends who had been working with Royal Enfield, that RE is working with larger capacity engines. He told me about it 3 years ago, while he was still at RE. As you said drastic changes to the mechanicals are always welcomed skeptically, people will eventually accept it, like what happened with the gear shifter which was shifted to the "wrong" side.

I look forward to the day when twin cylindered 700-1000 cc Royal Enfields costing 5 lac rupees and giving 16-18 kms to the liter will thunder down our roads at 160 kmph.

At least I can say I lived to see an Indian Bullet do that.

So what if it needed an extra engine.

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by man_of_steel

Procedure is the same for all the tubeless tires. No particular care required as far as he insists to take out the tire.


If you are clocking the miles fast, the 'long term' you are referring to is only around 12k Kms or less in 1 year or less for the rear Metz. Nothing will happen in that time period.



No hard and fast rule, depends on the severity of the puncture. A big puncture that cannot be fixed with even 2 or 3 mushroom plugs will require a tube to be used.

First of all thank you for the detailed replies

I have read about mushroom plugs , any cheap "jugaad" alternative that the puncture guy might try to use I should be worried about ?

I have a Jk tire puncture kit but no practical knowledge of procedure , it has those red/maroon colored strips(significantly thicker than this puncture) , are they better in any sense ? I am asking because the shops here are very primitive compared to the metros and they may not have the shroom plugs , if it is crucial that I use that particular mode of repair , I will first scout until I find a place which does it like that(or is it the standard procedure ? excuse my complete lack of idea regarding this ).