[Altocumulus]

" Hero MotoCorp has successfully tested all the three new engines – 100cc, 110cc and 250cc that were developed in-house. These engines are set to make its India debut in 2014 but only in few Hero products to start with.

The Gurgaon-based manufacturer has developed these new engines with the help of their partners EBR and AVL. The makers claim that the new engines perform better than the current engines and are also very fuel efficient. Hero MotoCorp will also launch their first motorcycle without the Honda technology in 2014. We are expecting this motorcycle to be first showcased at the 2014 Auto Expo along with the production model of India’s first hybrid scooter, the Leap that was showcased at the 2012 Auto Expo.

Pawan Munja, CEO and MD, Hero MotoCorp., had confirmed during the unveiling of the 15 new models that the next Auto Expo will have a production model of the Leap but confirmed that they haven’t decided if they plan to take this model to the production line.

"We have successfully tested three engines. These will be introduced in some of our products next year,” said Anil Dua, senior vice-president marketing and sales, Hero MotoCorp.

“Our ultimate aim is to have our partners as an extended R&D arm for Hero MotoCorp. These partners have huge specifications available and we want to be known as a full-fledged global two-wheeler brand eventually," said Pawan Munjal, CEO & MD, Hero MotoCorp."

Source: http://www.bikewale.com/news/822-her...ly-tested.html

Personally, I am not very fond of their new styling of the Karizma and am happy that I didn't wait for them. However an EBR partnered engine can be promising.

It means that, they havent developed any 150 CC engine.

So, for CBZ, Hunk and Impulse, the engines will be from Honda. No comments as of Now.

Bajaj engines outperform others on paper. However when it comes to drivability, reliability and Fuel efficiency, Honda won handsdown in daily commuting.

Lets see how Hero engines perform on paper and on road. I dont think that they will be able to beat bajaj on paper atleast.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

It means that, they havent developed any 150 CC engine.

So, for CBZ, Hunk and Impulse, the engines will be from Honda. No comments as of Now.

Bajaj engines outperform others on paper. However when it comes to drivability, reliability and Fuel efficiency, Honda won handsdown in daily commuting.

Lets see how Hero engines perform on paper and on road. I dont think that they will be able to beat bajaj on paper atleast.

Bajaj engines perform the age old loaner engines by miles & reliability these days is much better as compared to older stuff (except Caliber which was very good in those days as well). But it is the A.S.S. & the boy-racers & posers who graduate from 100cc low revving mills, & spoil Bajaj's (& even TVS' name in higher output bikes category).

I have owned a Pulsar150 for 7+ years now & 80K kms with engine worked on once (half engine as it is called, piston head got bent). This is same as current gen Honda Unicorn's problems & my mileage for Delhi - Noida & back run was measured at ~ 60 kmpl & occasionally @ 60+ kmpl, but I never rode it slow (basically I don't ride rash, but try to keep ahead of pack). The bike is still in great condition, & on weekends I ride it to office.

Bajaj is also stronger on paper, with profit per unit being much higher as compared to Hero. Only the number of 100cc & Scooter sales are the segments where to Bajaj trails behind HeroMotors by HUGE margin/ numbers.

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

Bajaj engines perform the age old loaner engines by miles & reliability these days is much better as compared to older stuff (except Caliber which was very good in those days as well). But it is the A.S.S. & the boy-racers & posers who graduate from 100cc low revving mills, & spoil Bajaj's (& even TVS' name in higher output bikes category).

Bajaj is also stronger on paper, with profit per unit being much higher as compared to Hero. Only the number of 100cc & Scooter sales are the segments where to Bajaj trails behind HeroMotors by HUGE margin/ numbers.

Agreed. Bajaj makes some good bikes. Even i owned a pulsar from 2003 -2008, the round headlight one, which lasted 90+ K kms without any engine repair. But it was ridden very well, without exceeding 60Kmph and often on highways.

Bajaj engines aren't that comfortable either, when it comes to reving. I hope this is the reason why Bajaj started Plonking KTM's engines in all their models with some minor tweaks. [Excluding Discover range, which might be upgraded any time soon.]

Also, the aam junta believes the same. Bajaj engines wont last long. But they give very good FE.

[meisnutz]

Any engine is good if you ride it slowly and it will give you a good mileage of 55-60(150cc) too if you ride it say below 4500rpm. It is always the engine RPM that matters and how quick it is gained and lost.
That said apart it is when you start ripping you understand the engines backdrops the most.As I have seen the rocker arm springs in pulsar are a bit low in quality as compared to Honda unicorn.Hence the Grinder noise of the engines as the valve timings are affected.Adding to this is the chain which does rattle a lot.Unicorn Dazzler is no good when it comes to chains too.
Also one of my friends who owned a P135 (very rough rider) once had his entire engine and gear box changed since a gear tooth broke and cracked every thing that was inside the engine and gearbox.

[junaid12345678]

Bajaj has one of the finest R&D's in the country but what gains them the bad reputation of making unreliable bikes is their extensive cost cutting and 'chaltha hai' attitude.An engine can be reliable only if all parts of the engine are given equal focus and quality control checks. First generation pulsars were the best in build quality and reliability. Most of them easily clocked 1+ lakh on the odo. And the newest pulsars begin to struggle once the odo passes 30 or 40k kms.
But HMC and other Japanese manufacturers do the opposite. They strive hard in improving the quality of their products but at the same time keeping an eye on the cost. HMC provides 5 year standard warranty on all its products and this proves the massive confidence the company has in its products as opposed to Bajaj who is not ready to give extended warranties even as an option.
And HMC engines (actually Honda's) can run for a lakh kms without adjusting even valve clearances, something that gives you the assurance that you are not going to a mechanic anytime soon. They have earned their name over the amount of commitment they have with their products. And no offense meant to the happy Bajaj owners here

[CARDEEP]

Things at Bajaj have changed a lot these days... that too for good. Even my bike was of times when Bajaj bikes were notorious of poor quality 2006 (1st Gen DTSi). However, I have regularly serviced it at every 2.5K kms with full engine oil change (a practice I picked up courtesy short service intervals of Hero Honda Splendor, my 1st bike), which has made by bike serve me well... much better than Splendor which would start groaning around 50 & screaming around 70. As compared to this I have ripped my P150 at 110 on 8 lane road (4 lanes each carriageway) & regularly ride her at 70 kmph on the main roads in Delhi, with no bursts of throttle, but, maintaining regular high speed.

I had one bad accident (but luckily no harm) because of my speed, when a stray dog jumped on the road bit early than his mates/ gang (all of whom had gone to other area to settle matters with other gang across the road). I tried emergency braking, resulting in skid & ripped riding jacket, & only few bruises on left hand (courtesy the riding gloves I was wearing). But the bike held up well with few scratches on the front fairing & no other damage.

We had a FieroF2 (we ran it for 1.25k+ kms) as well, which was another bike I loved almost as much as the P150. It was even more efficient & had much better dynamics as compared to P150. On the power mode (TVS bikes have eco-power mode, whereby eco mode ensures high mileage & power mode ensures great fun) I had at times managed to chase down my friend on ZMA in city races.

The (Hero) Honda was completely opposite of this & felt low on power (even less than 2/3 power of the P150, FieroF2) & with my riding style managed 75+ kmpl of highway. But, it never satisfied me as I never felt it was built to last. Those days I used to ride it on best roads in South Delhi & highways, yet it had started to fall off in 45K kms & 5 years ownership. Nothing of the sort has happened on the P150 or FieroF2, which have been ridden on worst parts of NCR (with almost no roads). My brother is sworn off from Hero/ Honda products, & has blocked all my efforts to buy an Activa for my retired father to be used for grocery shopping & other misc work.

I can almost exhaustively compare all these bikes in a detailed review, but, I know, it would be dismissed as a good piece I got, or my good luck. Hence, refrain from doing do.

Peace & Best of Luck

[(Alok)]

MHC has also introduced vertical (new, I presume) 109 CC engine in passion bike. It is a good surprise. Few other changes are also there like box section swing arm etc. At least they came out from their historical horizontal engines.

[F150]

Originally Posted by Altocumulus

" Hero MotoCorp has successfully tested all the three new engines – 100cc, 110cc and 250cc that were developed in-house. These engines are set to make its India debut in 2014 but only in few Hero products to start with.

It is an un-necessary excercise, unless HERO have to phase put all HONDA engines as per the de-merger, which doesn't seem to be the case, as they didn't develop any 150cc engine.

100CC splendor and 110cc passion or glamour engines are already pretty decent engines.

They should have focused on 150CC, 180 cc and 200 CC engines.

Next they should have focused on design language of their bikes. The recently face lifted bikes look hideous.

Bajaj is any day ahead of Hero in terms of R&D and in-house capabilities.

I foresee bright/decent future for BAJAJ and Hero will soon become the Hindustan Motors of the 4 wheeler segment.

[ashis89]

The Glamour/Super Splendour engine is known to fail quite early. I have seen several super splendors lying dead in FNG. When asked the garage chap said poor quality engine, beyond repair, high cost, owner discarded it as he was unhappy with it. I have used my friend's Glamour. It was very smooth and very punchy in the lower revs but ran out of breath very early. It was religiously maintained with oil changes at 2k kms but still the engine started drinking oil after only 9k kms on odo.

[ani_meher]

CARDEEP: Are you comparing splendour with P150 and fiero or did I misread something? How can reliability or anything of a 100cc be compared with a 150cc bike?

(Alok): The horizontal engines were actually supponsed to be good, as the oil did not need much time to run around in the engine at the first start in morning. It resulted in a well lubricated machine always, and hence aided in the fuel efficiency. Vertical engine will require few minutes of idling every morning, a practice I see very few people follow regularly.

[voyageur]

Originally Posted by junaid12345678

Bajaj has one of the finest R&D's in the country but what gains them the bad reputation of making unreliable bikes is their extensive cost cutting and 'chaltha hai' attitude.An engine can be reliable only if all parts of the engine are given equal focus and quality control checks. First generation pulsars were the best in build quality and reliability. Most of them easily clocked 1+ lakh on the odo. And the newest pulsars begin to struggle once the odo passes 30 or 40k kms.
But HMC and other Japanese manufacturers do the opposite. They strive hard in improving the quality of their products but at the same time keeping an eye on the cost. HMC provides 5 year standard warranty on all its products and this proves the massive confidence the company has in its products as opposed to Bajaj who is not ready to give extended warranties even as an option.
And HMC engines (actually Honda's) can run for a lakh kms without adjusting even valve clearances, something that gives you the assurance that you are not going to a mechanic anytime soon. They have earned their name over the amount of commitment they have with their products. And no offense meant to the happy Bajaj owners here

Your observations are spot on. The 1st gen pulsars with round headlight were the best in terms of reliability. As bajaj started adding technology like 'DTSi ,DTS-Si, DTS-Fi' etc it started degrading the engine quality. Still I believe Indian motorbike manufacturers are light years away from the international ones. Out of the lot, I believe TVS is the best Indian Brand considering the whole motorcycle. This is just my opinion and no offence meant to any one

As far as Hero Motocorp, their Design team has not been up to the mark. I am still in doubt about the reliability of their engine.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

CARDEEP: Are you comparing splendour with P150 and fiero or did I misread something? How can reliability or anything of a 100cc be compared with a 150cc bike?

I am comparing my experiences with the bikes I have owned. However, reliability can easily be compared across segments, & so can longevity, part quality, etc. And, when people complain about bad reliability of Bajajs, why do they always consider older Bajaj bikes, when the latest ones have improved a lot on this front.

My argument is even if my bikes are equally reliable, why should my Bajaj last longer than TVS or Hero Honda's parts fall off before half the mileage Bajaj has achieved despite being taken equal, if not more, care of the Splendor. e.g. - Splendor was the bike which was parked in covered garage for majority of ownership & P150/ Fiero exposed to elements... yet both held better than the best seller.

[ku69rd]

First n Foremost, I would like to understand what exactly success looks like when these test these machines? Everybody these days make this statements. If only they revealed the test results it would be fantastic. Facts on paper would tell/depict 25% of its performance but then the ride factor. What is the ride-ability of these new engines?
How does the engine run (State of tune)

[junaid12345678]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

I am comparing my experiences with the bikes I have owned. However, reliability can easily be compared across segments, & so can longevity, part quality, etc. And, when people complain about bad reliability of Bajajs, why do they always consider older Bajaj bikes, when the latest ones have improved a lot on this front.

My argument is even if my bikes are equally reliable, why should my Bajaj last longer than TVS or Hero Honda's parts fall off before half the mileage Bajaj has achieved despite being taken equal, if not more, care of the Splendor. e.g. - Splendor was the bike which was parked in covered garage for majority of ownership & P150/ Fiero exposed to elements... yet both held better than the best seller.

People may have mixed experiences on various bikes they own but we can't count such experiences as a fact. Are you sure that the latest pulsars are more reliable than the first generation ones? As far as I know, thinks are the opposite. When Bajaj shifted their focus towards profit and reducing production costs they brought some technologies like twin spark, triple spark which served them well as a marketing gimmick. And the guality of their products fell to a pathetic state. What are 3 spark plugs doing in a 200cc engine? All the Japanese manufacturers we know started making bikes half a century ago and they never bothered to put more than a single plug per cylinder. They tried and tested multiple spark plugs decades ago and found them doing nothing more than a single plug does. Now after 20 years Bajaj reinvented multiple spark plugs and calls themselves as the world leader in DTS-i technology. The greatest motorcycle engines known to mankind never used such great technologies but were built like tank. When people calls Bajaj bikes unreliable, remember one thing. When there is smoke, there must be a fire.


And regarding the reliability of the Splendor, even a 5 year old kid in the country knows what a Splendor is. Lakhs and lakhs of families own that gem and travels thousands of kilometers each year but the bike never let them down. A ten year old splendor can fetch you more than 20000 bucks at the moment you decide to sell it. How can you call a bike unreliable and build cheap which sells a million units per year? Why Bajaj with all these technologies still unable to beat more than a decade old Splendor?