[BANDHAV]

^^The headlight arrangement looks more like new Honda CBR600ish rather than any Yamaha motorbike.

That being said the specifications look fantastic, now the pricing would decide the fate of this machine here in our country.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Any news on the expected pricing?

About 2.7 L INR on direct convertion from Indonesian rupiah.

[parrys]

Originally Posted by BANDHAV

^^The headlight arrangement looks more like new Honda CBR600ish

I find it very close to the Ducati Panigale, when it comes to the head on view.

[ebonho]

A very yummy addition to the Indian biking scene. A true alternative to the Ninja. Something I never saw the CBR as. When exactly is this quarter liter R1 going to hit our shores? Looking forward to seein it and even riding it for sure.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by parrys

Talking about the Ninja:
Attachment 1240732

A friend of mine picked this up on Monday evening.
Price: 3.90 lakhs, 2011 make.
Akrapovic exhaust, new windscreen, some brake enhancement.

How many kilometers on the clock? Isn't 3.9 on the high side? Out here its more like 3.25-3.5 or thereabouts. Though yes, your friend did get the akra, double bubble, and brake mods ....

[parrys]

Originally Posted by ebonho

How many kilometers on the clock? Isn't 3.9 on the high side? Out here its more like 3.25-3.5 or thereabouts. Though yes, your friend did get the akra, double bubble, and brake mods ....

Paid amount was indeed on the higher side.
12K on the odo when purchased.
We had decided on another Ninja 650, but we were a bit lazy and lost that deal. That particular bike was sold for 3.25 lakhs.

The Akra alone costs some 80k + other accessories. Also, the previous owner has returned the stock parts in top condition, so my friend was happy.

I would never pay that kind of cash on anything that is used, what's new, is NEW.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by parrys

I would never pay that kind of cash on anything that is used, what's new, is NEW.

Yeah it is a lot of money.

What kind of money would you pay for a used 650, say 2010-2011, around 10,000 kms, bone stock, no extras?

Remember, even used, at a certain price point the 650 makes a lot of sense against say a brand new Ninja 300 or the yet to be launched R25 (or 30).

I think for all these 3 bikes, 10,000 odd kms is nothing. Not even the adolescence of the bike. I haven't heard of any Ninja 250 (the oldest) that's gone past 50,000 kms yet, but I've heard abroad these bikes (the two Ninjas) easily touch a lac kms+ without (or before) needing any work.

Plus the good part about buying a Ninja in India is that the service history is guaranteed and easily checked up on (as everything is computerised and there are only so many places they can be service at). As are any crashes.

Your views?

P.S. Hope this discussion is within the ambit of your thread, price point if not cc-wise.

[parrys]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Yeah it is a lot of money.

What kind of money would you pay for a used 650, say 2010-2011, around 10,000 kms, bone stock, no extras?

Remember, even used, at a certain price point the 650 makes a lot of sense against say a brand new Ninja 300 or the yet to be launched R25 (or 30).

I think for all these 3 bikes, 10,000 odd kms is nothing. Not even the adolescence of the bike. I haven't heard of any Ninja 250 (the oldest) that's gone past 50,000 kms yet, but I've heard abroad these bikes (the two Ninjas) easily touch a lac kms+ without (or before) needing any work.

Plus the good part about buying a Ninja in India is that the service history is guaranteed and easily checked up on (as everything is computerised and there are only so many places they can be service at). As are any crashes.

Your views?

P.S. Hope this discussion is within the ambit of your thread, price point if not cc-wise.

I don't think I would ever go the used way. I agree you get brilliant value with certain deals, but then, I would rather settle for something less that does fall in my budget at brand new price than something that doesn't and I have to settle down with it as a used product.

I am really not aware of these superbike resale rates, so cannot comment on that. And forget used, even brand new, the Ninja 650 makes a lot more sense than the 300 at respective price points. (Loan EMI being accounted here)

Two bikes (owned by friends), a Ninja 300 & a ZX10R have been accumulating dust at the service centres post a crash. No update whatsoever, even after 30 days and more. Doubt the availability of parts and the service history.

Guess we are going OT now, let's stick to 200-400cc.

[Joxster]

Originally Posted by ebonho

A very yummy addition to the Indian biking scene. A true alternative to the Ninja. Something I never saw the CBR as. When exactly is this quarter liter R1 going to hit our shores? Looking forward to seein it and even riding it for sure.

You spoke my mind Doc! I never saw the CBR 250 as a true alternative to the Ninja 250 either, even though it is at a lower price point. The performance of the two cannot be compared IMO.

[parrys]

These pictures of the KTM RC390 are just wow.

Side profile looks stunning with that exposed orange trellis frame.
Is it just me, or someone else also finds the front end a little odd?







Source: RC390 Facebook pages

[sriramv.iyer]

The question could be tangential - Why do countries like Indonesia get the launch of bikes? Government policy that supports manufacturers or is it a much larger market than India?

Sad to know that this doesn't have ABS even as an option. With D390, I can't say how thankful I am to have ABS in the bike.

It has moved from 'nice to have', to 'must have'

The engine looks like high revving, and giving all the power at the top of the revvs (just guessing) - Reminded of my life with R15.

[ebonho]

Bottom line Parrys between the RC390 and the R25/30 for you would be a lower revving single with more power and equipment levels versus a higher revving twin with less power and lower equipment specs.

One having ABS, the other not.

And this would be seen (by you) and most Yam fans against the backdrop of a Bajaj offering versus a Yamaha offering.

Correct?

All of the above is based by me on the assumption that both are going to be pretty similar on price - though we'll have to wait and see.

I know you've mentioned the powered up CBR, but somehow I do not see it fitting into this equation and match-up. But that's just me.

Also on your point of the RC looking weird front-on, its to do with (1) a single being inherently narrower and less bulky midships than a twin; and (2) the taller more upright windscreen - I think the RC390 is going to have a more upright riding stance (even with the clip-ons) compared to the R25/30.

[aargee]

In my views there's no confusion at all unless someone always thinks power is everything. There's absolute uniqueness in every offering & sometimes I find there's no manufacturer catering to practical requirements.

In my eyes...
P200NS - Practical everyday motorcycle returning good FE
KTM - Quality P200NS + Quality at the cost of less ASC
C250R - Better all rounder
N250R - King of 250cc at the cost of lower FE & less ASC around
GT250 - Unique sound, less FE, less ASC, almost like a white elephant
N300R - More suited for weekend rides & may be touring for people who cannot afford for mid weights & liter class
Inazuma 250 - Smooth cruiser, probably a sub segment of RE, HD/direct competitor to Aquila; for those riders who love to ride in comfort, style, laid back, not too fast at the cost of hefty price & less ASC & expensive parts
R25/HX250R - Too early to comment as we haven't even seen the motorcycle
KTM 390 - Frankly I would expect slightly more bigger tank to serve the purpose of long touring; otherwise, I don't see this for a city commuting as D200 is more than perfectly suited for the job.

Ofcourse, the above is debatable as billion minds can think in billion ways. Underlying point is very simple, if one defines their needs, it is easy to choose what they need.

[ArizonaJim]

Perhaps I missed it but I don't recall seeing the Royal Enfield 350 mentioned among the many different motorcycles that fit the 200-400cc category.

IMO, far too many people think, "Royal Enfield?" and that is to be expected based on their long history of production in India.

Their long production unfortunately, has also established a history of the old cast iron cylinder machine that was came from the 1950's with all of the weaknesses in design of those times.

The new Royal Enfields with their Unit Construction Engine (UCE) which has been in production since 2009 is a totally different machine.

The overheating and possible engine seizure due to the cast iron cylinder, the weak oil pump and aluminum connecting rod mounting a archaic floating sleeve bearing, the constant need for adjusting the valve clearance, the almost impossible to adjust clutch cable and the disastrous attempt to provide electric starting are all things of the past.

The new UCE engine with its sleeved aluminum cylinder is as effective as any of the other new motorcycles without the problems associated with water cooling.

The high flow, high pressure oil pump provides reliable lubrication and cooling for the engine and transmission. Wet sumping is eliminated by design of the crankcase.

The steel connecting rod with roller and ball bearings eliminates the weakness and wear associated with aluminum parts and sleeve bearings.

Modern hydraulic valve lifters with roller cam followers eliminates all of the wear problems of the old engines and never need adjustment.

The redesigned transmission and clutch with its ball bearing clutch release and simple two nut clutch adjustment are strong and reliable. The clutch will seldom need adjustment but if it does simply loosening one nut and tightening another is all that is required.

Engines made after 2010 have a vastly improved sprag clutch in the electric starting system which is proving to be extremely reliable. The addition of a automatic decompression device in the exhaust cam also adds to the reliability by preventing kick back that can damage the sprag clutch.

Although my 2011 Royal Enfield is a fuel injected 500cc I know the engines and transmissions are virtually identical with the 350cc except for the size of the bore.
I mention this because after 3 years of owning and riding 24,000 km at an average speed of 77 kmph I have had NO trouble with my motorcycle.
It has proven to be more reliable than the BMW K-75 I rode for years.

The new Royal Enfield 350 (and 500) is available in three different models which provide either a modern cruiser or the nostalgic looks of a true classic.

They maintain their resale value and bring admiring looks, even from people who have little interest in motorcycles.

Then, there is the Thump of a large slow reving single cylinder engine. That cannot be totally overlooked.

[parrys]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Bottom line Parrys between the RC390 and the R25/30 for you would be a lower revving single with more power and equipment levels versus a higher revving twin with less power and lower equipment specs.

One having ABS, the other not.

And this would be seen (by you) and most Yam fans against the backdrop of a Bajaj offering versus a Yamaha offering.

Correct?

All of the above is based by me on the assumption that both are going to be pretty similar on price - though we'll have to wait and see.

I know you've mentioned the powered up CBR, but somehow I do not see it fitting into this equation and match-up. But that's just me.

Also on your point of the RC looking weird front-on, its to do with (1) a single being inherently narrower and less bulky midships than a twin; and (2) the taller more upright windscreen - I think the RC390 is going to have a more upright riding stance (even with the clip-ons) compared to the R25/30.

Pricing, I think the R25 will overshoot by quite some margin. The RC390 is going to be amazing value for money with the power on tap, and brilliant brakes to tap (ABS).
But then, I don't want just *VALUE* for money. I need consistency in performance at the cost of lesser niggles. (No claims, just an expectation)

For 40k + kms, I don't remember going to the Yamaha Service centre more than 20 times. {Includes the periodic servicing, changing parts with exceptional wear and tear life compared to competition - KTM, chain lubes (excluding personal chain lubing), some minor issues etc}

Reliability is my major concern, I would most probably keep a bike for 2-3 years and I hate, just hate visiting the service centres. Will KTM provide me with that?

About the looks, from the spy pics, I think the RC390 will have the sportiest riding position. One image particularly shows the rider leaning forward may be more than my R15. Good way to flaunt your latissimus dorsi

& I think I hate this DRL thing too.

Originally Posted by aargee

Underlying point is very simple, if one defines their needs, it is easy to choose what they need.

But sometimes, you want all of that, and it's just super confusing as to what you are willing to let go.

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

Perhaps I missed it but I don't recall seeing the Royal Enfield 350 mentioned among the many different motorcycles that fit the 200-400cc category.

ArizonaJim, not a fan of the RE. Hence, not on my list.
If at all I happen to buy one, it will be the Continental GT. As I mentioned in one of the posts on this thread, closer to the purchase date, I will most definitely take it for a spin. But apart from that, I will only visit the RE showroom to just check out that 'Made Like Gun AGV Helmet', nothing else.