Should bikes have front / rear brakes activated together (CBS - Combined Braking Sys)

muni · 19th July 2006, 12:35

Something came to my mind yesterday when I was contemplating on the incident that took place about a month back.

I use my Unicorn bike to commute to the office daily and have to admit that it is sort of a challenge to keep on commuting for months together without having some close encounters.Have realised that the pedestrians/cyclists/autorikhshaws can give you a hard time.

Few weeks back, As usual I was heading home through the airport road from Indiranagar( Perpendicular to the koramangala Ring road and this was before the indranagar flyover was inaugurated). The road has a median with barricades whereby the pedestrians cannot cross the roads in most sections. Usually, the male folk take the short cuts and do some hardcore steeple chasing and jump these barricades to cross the roads.

After the traffic police had given the signal, i headed towards this road and noticed dwo daring men ;One looked like a beggar in rags and the other looked normally dressed.After having jumped over the barricade,they were ready to cross the road. As the vehicles were moving, they had just stood there holding the barricade eager to cross the road any instant they found that split second. I was having an eye on these fellas.For no apparent reason, the fella in rags decides to cross the road when am hardly about 20 feet from them and when am doin about 30 to 40 kmph. The other guy joins him and they start rushing towards the other end of the road. The fella in rags again for reasons known to him panics and stops in the middle of the road and starts "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"(The filmy aaaaa in real life :-)). I am hardly 10 feet from the both of them and in a reflex reaction applied my front brakes and the next moment thud and my bike is on the road with me stuck to it .The disc brake gets locked and the front wheel slipped and the bike crashed into the road.The bike just touches the fella in rags and he is unhurt. I have some minor scrape injuries on my hands and my pant is torn. The crash guard saves me from getting serious injuries. A couple of motorists stop and lift me and my bike and move us to safety.

After a while rode back home in pain on my bruised motorcycle .

So, from my experience what i know for sure is that front disc brakes can be a bit dangerous/risky during a hard reflex action braking and when you are trying to avoid something which you did not expect. Please note that disc brakes are very effective in braking than the drum brakes.

Cant there be system in the bikes whereby, if i press my foot or right hand to apply the brakes, The brakes are applied to both the front and back wheels with equal distribution .

Is the system too complicated to implement in a bike or there are some obvious shortcomings. Let me know what you think of this.

FYI: i wear helmet most of the times when i ride.

karthik247 · 19th July 2006, 12:39

There are bikes which have ABS systems

BTW, using the front disc brake alone is a bit dangerous, what u need to do is use front and rear brakes with some downshifting. Can be very effective and safe if u do it right. But doubt u had the time for all that....

2L8uLoose · 19th July 2006, 12:44

Rule #1 when riding a bike.. NEVER PANIC!
Easier said than done I know... but still I agree with Karthik...you need to use both brakes and downshift.

iraghava · 19th July 2006, 12:47

Some bigger bikes from Honda like the X-11 did feature Linked brakes where on application of the front brake the rear was also automatically applied. But some serious bikers had complained that the brakes did not give them enough feel & control. Don't know if the feature is still available though.

Also since the introduction of ABS in bikes I think linked brakes have become redundant.

black12rr · 19th July 2006, 12:48

When you disk brake you front one ,keep the bike straight .Locking the wheel in an angle will obviosly make it skid.use rear brake also .Front brake not dangerous but very helpful ,you should know how to use it.

muni · 19th July 2006, 12:51

Guys vote on the topic. I did not panic but did a hard reflex braking. I would have hit him for sure if i had done a slow progressive braking ( i hardly had 10 to 15 feet to stop).

I downshift and use both the brakes when i brake.

You are not opining on the point made in the Poll.

2L8uLoose · 19th July 2006, 12:52

Hard reflex... panic.. same difference man.. come on!

muni · 19th July 2006, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2L8uLoose

Hard reflex... panic.. same difference man.. come on!

Hahaha if you say that yess..but i thought me also panicking and saying 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAA' and not braking at all and making it worse for all.

I shud have hit him trying to brake normally :-)

karthik247 · 19th July 2006, 12:58

I vote for 'NO' cuz i don't think u need that. U could have all those braking aids, but if u panic then they are of no use at all. It's all about how u use it, cuz if u don't know how to brake properly there is no doubt u'll be thrown off the bike.

I'll put it as front brake is main for braking, while the rear is just for balance and control.

This is just ageneral message...not directed at anyone.

2L8uLoose · 19th July 2006, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by muni

Hahaha if you say that yess..but i thought me also panicking and saying 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAA' and not braking at all and making it worse for all.

I shud have hit him trying to brake normally :-)

There ya go.. your learning already!!

muni · 19th July 2006, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2L8uLoose

There ya go.. your learning already!!

Am a fast learner. The fella would have had some broken bones for sure.

2L8uLoose · 19th July 2006, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by muni

Am a fast learner. The fella would have had some broken bones for sure.

Well that would have taught him not to cross against traffic next time.. not a bad way to teach him or anyone else that wants to play FROGGER(remember that ATARI game??)!

nitrous · 19th July 2006, 13:29

In bikes, the Engine braking technique is seldom used in our country due to lack of knowledge.
Like Karthik&2l8uloose explained, both the brakes along with downshifting is very efficient in stopping. For this, u need to practise engine braking.
Moreover, the compounds on Indian 2-wheeler tires are quite hard and give negligible grip.

muni · 19th July 2006, 13:34

Did some googling and found an useful link on integrated braking..

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP082.html

small extract from the same .

If, when you apply your rear brake, your motorcycle also applies front braking for you, then you have some form of 'integrated braking.' In the case of the Honda GoldWing, there are two front disc brakes and one rear disc brake. One of the front brakes is independently controlled by the front brake lever while the other front brake and the rear brake are both activated by the rear brake pedal.

Some people do not understand why integrated braking exists and are of the opinion that they are unsafe. There are some who actually disable (or want to) this function and tie the two front brakes together so that they are both activated at the same time and exclusively by the front brake lever.
.......

2L8uLoose · 19th July 2006, 13:43

I have ridden a CBR1100XX that Honda put out a few years extensively and I too had a problem with their Combined Braking System (CBS)
Maybe it was more of a head thing.. but I just COULD NOT get used to the CBS system.
But then hey thats just me and I think Honda did its homework and all that but nah.
Aside from that it happens to be my favorite bike.. I know sounds like a contradiction

View Poll Results: Should Bikes have Front and Rear Brakes activated from either the foot or hand.
Yes ( Helps braking distance with even force distribution to front and rear wheels)	11	39.29%
No ( It will not work on motorcycles as in cars)	13	46.43%
Cant Say ( Cant reason out or dont have experience to give an opinion)	4	14.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

19th July 2006, 12:35	#1
muni BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 607 Thanked: 214 Times View My Garage	Should bikes have front / rear brakes activated together (CBS - Combined Braking Sys) Something came to my mind yesterday when I was contemplating on the incident that took place about a month back. I use my Unicorn bike to commute to the office daily and have to admit that it is sort of a challenge to keep on commuting for months together without having some close encounters.Have realised that the pedestrians/cyclists/autorikhshaws can give you a hard time. Few weeks back, As usual I was heading home through the airport road from Indiranagar( Perpendicular to the koramangala Ring road and this was before the indranagar flyover was inaugurated). The road has a median with barricades whereby the pedestrians cannot cross the roads in most sections. Usually, the male folk take the short cuts and do some hardcore steeple chasing and jump these barricades to cross the roads. After the traffic police had given the signal, i headed towards this road and noticed dwo daring men ;One looked like a beggar in rags and the other looked normally dressed.After having jumped over the barricade,they were ready to cross the road. As the vehicles were moving, they had just stood there holding the barricade eager to cross the road any instant they found that split second. I was having an eye on these fellas.For no apparent reason, the fella in rags decides to cross the road when am hardly about 20 feet from them and when am doin about 30 to 40 kmph. The other guy joins him and they start rushing towards the other end of the road. The fella in rags again for reasons known to him panics and stops in the middle of the road and starts "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"(The filmy aaaaa in real life :-)). I am hardly 10 feet from the both of them and in a reflex reaction applied my front brakes and the next moment thud and my bike is on the road with me stuck to it .The disc brake gets locked and the front wheel slipped and the bike crashed into the road.The bike just touches the fella in rags and he is unhurt. I have some minor scrape injuries on my hands and my pant is torn. The crash guard saves me from getting serious injuries. A couple of motorists stop and lift me and my bike and move us to safety. After a while rode back home in pain on my bruised motorcycle . So, from my experience what i know for sure is that front disc brakes can be a bit dangerous/risky during a hard reflex action braking and when you are trying to avoid something which you did not expect. Please note that disc brakes are very effective in braking than the drum brakes. Cant there be system in the bikes whereby, if i press my foot or right hand to apply the brakes, The brakes are applied to both the front and back wheels with equal distribution . Is the system too complicated to implement in a bike or there are some obvious shortcomings. Let me know what you think of this. FYI: i wear helmet most of the times when i ride.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 12:39	#2
karthik247 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR, HYD Posts: 2,710 Thanked: 30 Times	There are bikes which have ABS systems BTW, using the front disc brake alone is a bit dangerous, what u need to do is use front and rear brakes with some downshifting. Can be very effective and safe if u do it right. But doubt u had the time for all that....
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 12:44	#3
2L8uLoose BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 628 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	Rule #1 when riding a bike.. NEVER PANIC! Easier said than done I know... but still I agree with Karthik...you need to use both brakes and downshift.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 12:47	#4
iraghava Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bhaiyyaland Posts: 8,033 Thanked: 265 Times View My Garage	Some bigger bikes from Honda like the X-11 did feature Linked brakes where on application of the front brake the rear was also automatically applied. But some serious bikers had complained that the brakes did not give them enough feel & control. Don't know if the feature is still available though. Also since the introduction of ABS in bikes I think linked brakes have become redundant.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 12:48	#5
black12rr Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ridin earth now Posts: 1,278 Thanked: 339 Times	When you disk brake you front one ,keep the bike straight .Locking the wheel in an angle will obviosly make it skid.use rear brake also .Front brake not dangerous but very helpful ,you should know how to use it.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 12:51	#6
muni BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 607 Thanked: 214 Times View My Garage	The pedestrian panicked Guys vote on the topic. I did not panic but did a hard reflex braking. I would have hit him for sure if i had done a slow progressive braking ( i hardly had 10 to 15 feet to stop). I downshift and use both the brakes when i brake. You are not opining on the point made in the Poll. Last edited by muni : 19th July 2006 at 12:52.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 12:52	#7
2L8uLoose BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 628 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	Hard reflex... panic.. same difference man.. come on!
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 12:58	#9
karthik247 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR, HYD Posts: 2,710 Thanked: 30 Times	I vote for 'NO' cuz i don't think u need that. U could have all those braking aids, but if u panic then they are of no use at all. It's all about how u use it, cuz if u don't know how to brake properly there is no doubt u'll be thrown off the bike. I'll put it as front brake is main for braking, while the rear is just for balance and control. This is just ageneral message...not directed at anyone.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 13:29	#13
nitrous Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2004 Location: UAE/Lon/Madras Posts: 6,965 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	In bikes, the Engine braking technique is seldom used in our country due to lack of knowledge. Like Karthik&2l8uloose explained, both the brakes along with downshifting is very efficient in stopping. For this, u need to practise engine braking. Moreover, the compounds on Indian 2-wheeler tires are quite hard and give negligible grip.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 13:34	#14
muni BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 607 Thanked: 214 Times View My Garage	Did some googling and found an useful link on integrated braking.. http://www.msgroup.org/TIP082.html small extract from the same . If, when you apply your rear brake, your motorcycle also applies front braking for you, then you have some form of 'integrated braking.' In the case of the Honda GoldWing, there are two front disc brakes and one rear disc brake. One of the front brakes is independently controlled by the front brake lever while the other front brake and the rear brake are both activated by the rear brake pedal. Some people do not understand why integrated braking exists and are of the opinion that they are unsafe. There are some who actually disable (or want to) this function and tie the two front brakes together so that they are both activated at the same time and exclusively by the front brake lever. ....... Last edited by muni : 19th July 2006 at 13:35.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 13:43	#15
2L8uLoose BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 628 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	I have ridden a CBR1100XX that Honda put out a few years extensively and I too had a problem with their Combined Braking System (CBS) Maybe it was more of a head thing.. but I just COULD NOT get used to the CBS system. But then hey thats just me and I think Honda did its homework and all that but nah. Aside from that it happens to be my favorite bike.. I know sounds like a contradiction
	() Thanks