[TCX]

@Bluerave316- >Yup, I need it for daily use. But my usage ain't much. Probably 50-60 Kms per week.

>I know, it's a crazy downgrade. But I've ridden the Karizma and the bike ain't too bad. It was quite happy doing 100 for a prolonged period. I got more of a tourer feeling rather than a street bike, that kinda dissapointed me. Oh the fuel economy of the LC's about 16.5 kpl and the TZR around 16 kpl so they're not too bad when you compare it to my car(8 kpl).

@Killer- As killjoy pointed out, there are several factors to it. Although i'd also like to add that the LC(1987-59.5HP) in stock form is very well capable of smoking a pre 2002 CBR600

Here's a little something-

@#3#http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/iipcache/34836.jpg

It's a link to the power and torque curve on the '87 TZR. Scary!

http://www.moto-hirata.com/POWER_CHE...P_91/index.htm

This one is of the '91 model.
seen clearer here-

http://img137.imageshack.us/my.php?i...50rsp91ga7.gif

TC

EDIT- I tried posting two images, they aren't showing.

[Killer]

Originally Posted by TCX

@Killer- As killjoy pointed out, there are several factors to it. Although i'd also like to add that the LC(1987-59.5HP) in stock form is very well capable of smoking a pre 2002 CBR600

are you concluding this from articles you have read or from actual riding experience with these bikes ? I have ample experience with both bikes on and off the track and know very well what they are capable of. There is just no way a LC will 'smoke' a CBR 600...if you mean better lap times on track, that is very much a factor of the rider and i wouldnt judge the performance of the bike based on that, even motogp bikes and the 250cc class have very close laptimes if you get my drift. I guess you'll just have to define what you mean by 'smoking'

Killjoy: Even so mate, unless they are riding on dirt...the 600RR is in a completely different league and extremely maneuverable, in the hands of a decent enough rider it will out do the LC even in traffic, forget open roads or track..i suppose we could argue which will fit through that gap between the auto and the bus but thats besides the point now isnt it . It doesnt even have to be the RR, the 600 F series (all the way from 1997 model upwards) make 90+bhp at the rear and handle like a dream, they are quite out of reach of the LC as well ..trust me, i know

[TCX]

When I mean 'smoke' I mean 0-100 sprints. I have no experience with the RR. But from my other experiences, modern Hondas are nothing great getting off the line.

My first run on a modern 600 was pathetic. I hardly got a sub 6 sec to a 100. I was used to the gearboxes in smaller machines. They react very very differently. So do Eupropean bikes. I had to learn how to use these machines. Infact the sub litre class was also a very different experience. A sub 500 two stroke is very hard to control unlike the modern machines as the power is not very well spread out. So, ultimately if you know the sweet spot on these two strokes they never let you down. Now I may have my experiences and you may have yours. But lets not turn this into an 'experience' competition.

BHP- Brake horse power(inaccurate number calculated at the crank shaft)
You're refering to HP. BHP can never exist at the rear wheel.

[Killer]

Originally Posted by TCX

When I mean 'smoke' I mean 0-100 sprints. I have no experience with the RR. But from my other experiences, modern Hondas are nothing great getting off the line..

well thats your experience then,...mine has been different, you just need to know how to light up a bike off the line..i agree you dont get the same punch of the 2 stroke powerband but in actuality if you gun it right, the 600 (including the F series) will get to 100 faster than the LC and it will do it in first gear while the LC looses time shifting gears. You're right about the sweet spot on 2 strokes and its a matter of technique, the same holds true for the 600. Here is a quick look a the quarter mile figures of these 'modern hondas'

First i'll quote 1998 CBR600 F3 figures coz that was my previous bike

> Quarter mile = 11.32 @ 119.31mph

Now the 2006 CBR600RR

> Quarter mile = 10.571 @ 132.48mph

The LC will do it in the low 14's or at best high 13's...my point after all this is that the figures speak for themselves and its quite ludicrous to claim the LC can 'smoke' a CBR600 especially in acceleration 0 - 100 or otherwise.

Now I may have my experiences and you may have yours. But lets not turn this into an 'experience' competition.

oh but experience is very important you see...its what differentiates the magazine readers from the those who 'know' the real thing. You seem experienced yourself though and the last thing i want to do is poke at your ego. Suffice to say in my drag racing experience the LC cannot stay with the 600 even till 100kmph let alone 'smoke' it

BHP- Brake horse power(inaccurate number calculated at the crank shaft)
You're refering to HP. BHP can never exist at the rear wheel

ohh lookie you found a mistake in my post ...just kidding, i'm well aware what horse power at the crank vs the rear wheel is, i was referring to rwhp and it is still 90+rwhp, that figure doesnt change

Coming back to the topic though...at some point you will realize the downside to these 2 stroke machines, brilliant as they are. I myself started with RX100 to RD350 to CBR600 and now to R1. I still love the RD's, LC's and TZR's, they are fantasy bikes but unfortunately when it comes down to being practical reliability just lets you down in the end. Thats the bottom line.

[TheCockroach]

Classic killer post. Nice to see ya here man.

TCX - Bud, get either of the bikes, they are both amazing machines, but if your looking for a regular runabout then stick to the 4 strokes man. Nowadays these bikes are good for a weekend blast and nothing more I guess. No use having a ported rd or tz that will last say 20k kms and use it to commute and spares are also getting very very hard to come by. Use it more as a leisure bike. Its a CLASSIC.

Killer - I'm with ya on this.

We've gotta take account of the riders too and the kinda bikes that they are. 2 stroke with no low end torque left lagging and it hits its narrow power band might get ahead of the 600 a bit . But in the end the 600 is going to pull ahead of the RD in a couple of secs. 2 strokes are amazing machines and so are the 4 strokes. They have their pros and their cons.

Plus dont' forget, there is no replacement for displacement. We're talking about a 350cc and a 600cc here.

[Rtech]

Ahh, the ol' 2 vs 4 stroke battles have hit our shores!

I have the utmost respect for the strokies, but for me, it just has to be the wail of an in-line 4 revving to 14,000rpm.

And when you get down to it, there are not too many LC's left in a condition enough to take out most 400's, let alone 600's.

[TCX]

Originally Posted by Killer

well thats your experience then,...mine has been different, you just need to know how to light up a bike off the line..i agree you dont get the same punch of the 2 stroke powerband but in actuality if you gun it right, the 600 (including the F series) will get to 100 faster than the LC and it will do it in first gear while the LC looses time shifting gears. You're right about the sweet spot on 2 strokes and its a matter of technique, the same holds true for the 600. Here is a quick look a the quarter mile figures of these 'modern hondas'

I'm well informed of quarter mile times and the power of these machines, thank you, and the larger the capacity, it always pays off.

Originally Posted by Killer

First i'll quote 1998 CBR600 F3 figures coz that was my previous bike

> Quarter mile = 11.32 @ 119.31mph

Now the 2006 CBR600RR

> Quarter mile = 10.571 @ 132.48mph

The LC will do it in the low 14's or at best high 13's...my point after all this is that the figures speak for themselves and its quite ludicrous to claim the LC can 'smoke' a CBR600 especially in acceleration 0 - 100 or otherwise.

When it comes to 2 strokes I have hardly a 6-7 month experience, so I have no option but to succumb to your statement. You may believe that I am some sort of fanatic when it comes to 2 strokes. On the contrary, I am pro 4. In the past few months I had the opertunity to check out some hot 2 strokes and it is merely my fascination toward these machines that encouraged me to consider buying one of these. I found them very very peppy, to put it shortly, and far peepier than any large 4 I have come across.

Originally Posted by Killer

oh but experience is very important you see...its what differentiates the magazine readers from the those who 'know' the real thing. You seem experienced yourself though and the last thing i want to do is poke at your ego. Suffice to say in my drag racing experience the LC cannot stay with the 600 even till 100kmph let alone 'smoke' it

Experience may be important, but I despise the fact that people have the audacity to talk of how much they have done/achieved. One is entitled his/her own opinion, but is not entitled to rule over the other because one believes that he/she knows more. I don't find myself blatantly telling people about my experiences. I try to be as sober as I can. And about poking at my ego, I'm sure you're trying your best not to, but you surely are trying your best to instigate and mock me. Yes, I happened to use the word 'smoke', 'modern hondas' and other words, but I don't see how it gives you the authority to repeatedly use that as a way to tick me off or mock me.

Originally Posted by Killer

ohh lookie you found a mistake in my post ...just kidding, i'm well aware what horse power at the crank vs the rear wheel is, i was referring to rwhp and it is still 90+rwhp, that figure doesnt change

Not many are capable of judging how one's tone is over a written message. And I don't blame you if you mistook me. Infact, it is normal human psyche to react negatively to someone who has pointed out an error. Honestly, I don't take corrections very well myself. I was merely pointing that out, and wasn't pointing that out in an attempt to put you down. So I don't believe that it deserves a rather immature statement like- 'ohh lookie you found a mistake in my post'. I can easily voice my complete opinion and add a tag reading, 'just kidding', but it doesn't work that way. Initially I decided to ignore this message, but I found myself doing otherwise.

I'd also like to add that the power plays an important role in determining the top end of a motorcycle or even a car for that matter of fact, but hardly does when it comes to how a vehicle pulls off the line. So the HP numbers don't matter to me in any way. There are no roads in this country where the HP can prove itself of any importance.

Originally Posted by Killer

Coming back to the topic though...at some point you will realize the downside to these 2 stroke machines, brilliant as they are. I myself started with RX100 to RD350 to CBR600 and now to R1. I still love the RD's, LC's and TZR's, they are fantasy bikes but unfortunately when it comes down to being practical reliability just lets you down in the end. Thats the bottom line.

Thanks for your opinion. It is duly taken.

TC

[2fast4u]

Its just takes a few words to get discussions from good to bad to worse the moment a "bigger capacity" 4stroke comes into comparison with a "smaller capacity" 2stroke.

whether its a pulsar 180 vs Rx100 or a 750katana vs a rd500 any forum its war.

anyway kewl off guys.

[Killer]

@TCX: Ok chill bud, not trying to mock you

power plays an important role in determining the top end of a motorcycle or even a car for that matter of fact, but hardly does when it comes to how a vehicle pulls off the line. There are no roads in this country where the HP can prove itself of any importance.

You're quite wrong about this part though.

[bikefreak]

I myself had almost bought a TZR a couple of years back.
Had seen and riden 4 of them. Prices were 80k - 1.2lac.

Ultimately I settled for a 12 yr old CBR 600 F2 that costed me 3 times a TZR.
I guess I was quite stupid (and so were u killer), cause, apparently we could have got a faster bike for a third of what we spent !!!

Later, I did come across a couple of guys with these 2 strokers who considered themselves expert riders and had the cheek to challenge me with their 'highly tuned and modified' machines. . . . .
A beginner like me was quite scared but took up the challenge in good spirit.

A couple of drags later I even let them start from much ahead.
But, alas the result was the same !! They lost each time by a considerable margin.
Of course, they might have just won if their clutch would not have slipped or if they had better tyres (according to their explanation), or how about a better engine ??!!

I still come across such guys with delusions of grandeur about their riding capabilities and their 'exotic' machines, but I've learnt that it is no point in arguing with them.

The closest a RD has come to an inline 4, as far as my knowledge goes, is to a poorly maintained 400rr, which itself is more or less the same capacity & bhp.
Besides, I'm yet to come across a RD or a TZR in a really good condition.
Most of them are a shadow of their former selves.

Even an old 600 should be able to do a 0-100 in around 4 secs !!
so that's in a different league altogether.

[turbo_v12]

Originally Posted by bikefreak

Ultimately I settled for a 12 yr old CBR 600 F2 that costed me 3 times a TZR.
I guess I was quite stupid (and so were u killer), cause, apparently we could have got a faster bike for a third of what we spent !!!

So what dude...even I'll choose a superbike anyday when I will get the funds.

[Technocrat]

Originally Posted by Killer

Coming back to the topic though...at some point you will realize the downside to these 2 stroke machines, brilliant as they are. I myself started with RX100 to RD350 to CBR600 and now to R1. I still love the RD's, LC's and TZR's, they are fantasy bikes but unfortunately when it comes down to being practical reliability just lets you down in the end. Thats the bottom line.

Am I dreaming

@Killer: just went in the flashback into bp.com era

Anyways nice to hear these words from you

Hey Btw when did ya get The One :-) which year model? PM me if you cant post here. I have been outta track for quite long so dont blast if its an old story :P