[Tgo]

I have been observing Royal Enfields and especially the UCE ones both new and old and have noticed a lot of details that are missed out in the sales and marketing brochures which caught my eye over a few visits. These UCE Enfields have been getting minor modifications which neither does the company highlight nor do the service guys taking your bikes in notice. They definitely should be putting a word out because some changes are mechanical in effect and none of the magazines would ever report them in the near future.

I'll start by showing how to spot the difference between a Classic 500 and a Classic 350.

On the left we have the 500 with its frame painted in the same colour as the tank while all 350 Classics have their frame painted black. There is an exception in the case of Classic Chrome which has a black frame, but then we know that the chrome comes with the 500cc engine only.

Front forks

The 350 on the left has a different design from the 500 on the right. There is significant spindle offset which is also reflected in the tech specs of the bikes on their website. the 350 has a longer wheelbase than the 500 by 10 mm. I would like someone to elaborate on how this affects handling.

placement of the....Rectifier?

The rectifier (not sure what it is called) has been moved from behind the front number plate on the front fork and given a new position under the seat.

Tank design

They have ditched the extensions on the front of the tank and given it a much cleaner look. You can see all the three iterations here. The new bikes have the cleanest design whereas the intermediate one is seen on the new Electras. and here comes the good part..

The tank has been beefed up. The first two iterations had a slimmer tank when looked at from top. The new and cleaner tanks are wider. Continuing with the intermediate design on the Electra gives them a criteria to distinguish the Classics from the Electras aesthetically. I'm sure the capacity has gone up a wee bit, but that hasn't been mentioned anywhere.

Rear Shock Absorbers

I see new springs this should bring about some change in the ride quality. The newer bikes are coming with progressively wound springs in which spacing between the turns is wider in the upper part when compared to the old ones. I'd like you old classic owners to test ride the new bikes and tell us the difference if there is any.

Swing Arm

The tubular swing arm on the TBs has a different chain slack adjustment arrangement. All bikes except for the TBs and the Continental GT still rely on the notched cam arrangement shown at the top.

The lower mounting points on the tubular swing arms of the TBs and the CGT have a distinct bracket instead of the stud on the old ones. I do recall a friend worried about a similar bracket on his old CBZ collecting water and getting rusted to the point of being called powder whereas the studs of the old design are concealed from the elements. But I believe the brackets on the Enfields are stamped from much thicker sheets.

Steering Lock

The TBs and the CGT now come with steering lock integrated with the barrel lock for the ignition switch. All other bikes have the lock under the steering knuckle (where it used to be).

These were a few changes they slipped in along with the changed logos, keys and decals on their whole range, in addition to some new paint schemes.

Would like you all with a sharper set of eyes to share what I could not spot and shed some light on why these are not spoken of publicly.

[arunphilip]

I appreciate the effort you've put into documenting and sharing this level of detailed comparison.

While Enfields are not my cup of tea, I'm glad to have seen this thread!

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Tgo

There is significant spindle offset which is also reflected in the tech specs of the bikes on their website. the 350 has a longer wheelbase than the 500 by 10 mm. I would like someone to elaborate on how this affects handling.

Longer the wheelbase stable the bike is! Shorter wheelbase makes the bike easy to flick around (like TVS Apache RTR). Enfields, be it any model feel stable on highways reason thanks to the wheelbase!

Anurag.

[Jeroen]

Very observant. For Royal Enfield of course remains to be seen how relevant it is for these details to be known to the general public, or just to couple of nerds, like us.

I would definitely count myself as a huge if not collosal nerd, so I want to know. But does 99.9% of the general RE public care? I don't know, but I doubt it somehow.

My dad was completely not interested in cars. Purely a means of transportation. Buying one was a bit of a chore. One day I got home and he told me he bought a new car. I told him, did you actually sit in it, because I think it might be a bit small for you? No, he replied, I just walked around it once. Luckily, I managed to get the order cancelled.

I remember once, I took my dad to go on a new car hunt. So we walked into a dealer and the sales guy spots us and recognizes my dad. He sold him a car many years ago. He walks up to my dad and introduces himself and says; Nice to see you again Mr. D. It's been a while, at least ten years. If I remember correctly the only thing that matters for you is the colour and even that is not really relevant at all!

When we eventually walked out of the dealership my dad told me: Great sales guy, he really understands what I'm looking for. Go and order whatever in any colour. So I ordered him a new Audi 100, all the options ticked, in a color I liked. My dad was very pleased.

Now, my dad might have been a bit extreme, but I can't help but think that most people who buy new cars or bikes haven't got a clue. That is, from my point of view/perception. For my dad the only criteria was in essence to get in and out of the dealership and place an order in the minimum time. Buying a car, was like buying a loaf of bread to him. It just didn't interest him.

I have owned several (company) Audi's. And these things used to get upgraded all the time. My dealer, who really knew me well, used to invite me to explain every single detail between the different versions. I remember once there were 1256 differences between the old and the new model.

He invited me, and he had a demo car in the workshop on the lift and we spend like 4-5 hours going through every little detail. The workshop manager was there and he even had his mechanics take bits of, of the car so we could see properly every single last detail.

The brochure mentioned something like "improved handling". But I wanted to see every bit that was supposed to ensure the "improved handling". Great service. But again, great for nerds like me. For 99.9% of the buying public not relevant.

i just love car/bike details, but most likely, just about everybody else thinks I am just a nerd. Hell, my wife thinks I''m a nerd when it comes to this sort of stuff. She loves me dearly but could not give a toss about all these car details.

Any party we go to, I am the absolute party bore, unless there are a few more car nutters and we usually get shoveled into a separate room, so as not to bore the rest of the party to death.

My wife chooses her car on what she thinks looks nice or cute. There is no other buying criteria! So it's like: I like this one and I don't like that one.

Don't argue, just break out the credit card. Her choice is as good as mine, just different criteria. Key to a happy marriage!!! Suck it up guys.

Now, I'd be the last person to claim that my anal obsession for detail and understanding of each detail is a good criteria to buy. In fact, I would go as far as that my wife gets far more pleasure out of her cars, because her criteria are so simple. E.g. I don't like this one. I want that one, because it looks cute!!!

I would be useless, absolutely bloody useless in a car manufacturers PR department. What do you put in the brochure???

Jeroen

[adnair]

Do you feel the build quality has improved in the past one year of RE? I own a CE 500 from Aug 2013 and been one of the lucky few who have a non rusty well built bike. They have made some changes with the stickers, but the ones you point out really seem to be subtle changes which should make a difference. Are we saying that we are now getting premium built for the 500 compared to 350? The shorter wheelbase does not inspire much confidence though - thoughts?

[Tgo]

Originally Posted by arunphilip

I appreciate the effort you've put into documenting and sharing this level of detailed comparison.

...things that I do when I wait while my bike is being attended to rather than looking at them work like monkeys.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Longer the wheelbase stable the bike is!

I dug in to it a bit more and it seems that the only thing being affected here by the offset is the Trail. For further comment on this measurements have to be done first to quantify it. Then back to back test rides along the twisties for a thorough response on how this difference equates to the difference in handling.

Originally Posted by adnair

Do you feel the build quality has improved in the past one year of RE? I own a CE 500 from Aug 2013 and been one of the lucky few who have a non rusty well built bike. They have made some changes with the stickers, but the ones you point out really seem to be subtle changes which should make a difference. Are we saying that we are now getting premium built for the 500 compared to 350? The shorter wheelbase does not inspire much confidence though - thoughts?

I certainly believe that the newer Enfields are definitely a notch up in the quality. Just see the weld seam on the tank in the pictures where I have wedged my fingers in between the tank and the rocker cover. The newer tank has a better finish.... Small things that go unnoticed.
And for your other question, read my last response to a4anurag.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Very observant. For Royal Enfield of course remains to be seen how relevant it is for these details to be known to the general public, or just to couple of nerds, like us.

I would be useless, absolutely bloody useless in a car manufacturers PR department. What do you put in the brochure???

Hello J,

I really feel we share some genes when it comes to being nerds about small details. We definitely wouldn't have any work in the PR departments of any automobile manufacturer.

I believe for a customer like me, the ability of the sales people or technicians to explain the minor differences goes a long way in shaping my decision favouring their respective brands. I'll share a few instances...

While looking for a new car my dad had called a Skoda Yeti for a test drive. The sales rep was
1) Patient (we had a lengthy test drive and conversation which stretched for a good 2 hours)
2) Knowledgeable (he knew stuff like the gear ratios and torque figures not only for the car he was selling but also of the competitors and knew what affected what and in what way. Basically talking sense)
3) Encouraging (enough to let us push the test drive car to the limits, waiting till dusk to show us the cornering lights function)
4) Good with numbers (he had all sorts of numbers which made the Yeti look like an affordable option)
The only thing stopping us from sealing the deal was the appalling after sales service that Skoda had at that time. We in India really want the cars to be reliable because most households have the luxury of owning just that one car at any given point in time.

A Hyundai sales rep on being told that the Verna doesn't have auto roll-up feature in the windows whereas its competitor the VW Vento has it, said, "When you are rolling up the window your hand is going to be on the switch rather than in the window, why waste money on that feature? We are giving you auto-down". I was silent.

While upgrading the bulbs in my friend's Chevrolet Cruze we noticed that the headlamp housing had two screws to adjust the beam Up-Down and Left-Right. No wonder they cost a bomb when compared to most other cars in the Indian market. Yet if the sales rep would slip this functional feature in during the decision making for a new car, the cost of that part and the car would seem justified. But, no one tells you these things.

And this disappointment just carries on to whatever you go to buy these days. for example...

Sir, this is a smart TV you can put apps on it.
What else...?
... err you can video chat.
I'm buying a TV damn-it tell me how the picture fares when compared to this other one.

No wonders plasma screens have vanished from the Indian market.

Its a market driven by consumers everywhere and the consumers just see what is skin deep the manufacturers are running businesses and feeding the consumers all the crap they need to get distracted. Works for both, I guess.

[ArizonaJim]

Tgo: Thank you for your interesting observations.

The offset front axle was first used by Royal Enfield on the 1946 model G and J. These were among the first motorcycles to offer hydraulic front forks to the public on production motorcycles. (The other brands had the old sprung girder style forks).
The offset became almost a identifying feature of Royal Enfields.

The sprung swing arm rear suspension was introduced by Royal Enfield in 1949 and, interestingly, used the snail style adjusting cam from day one. Other brands were still either unsprung "hard tails" or used a plunger style rear suspension.
Enough of the history lesson but I think little things like this are interesting.

I don't know that it was a direct cause of the redesign of the front forks but those of us who live in the USA generally ride our Royal Enfields at faster speeds than the owners in India do.
The "C5" model, which is the fuel injected 500cc UCE very similar,if not exactly the same as the Classic sold in India.

Anyway, many of the 2009-2011, C5's were very twitchy at high speeds (over 105 kmph) often developing minor "head shake" (where the front wheel and handlebars move rapidly from side to side). Needless to say this was not only a safety hazard but it soiled more than a few pairs or pants.
Royal Enfield redesigned the steering head and the front fork to the style you show which does not have the offset axle. I was also told they increased the size of the downtubes during this redesign to add additional stiffness.
In any case, I haven't heard of the headshake problem on any of the new models which use this redesigned fork.

The width of the fuel tank needed to be increased on the fuel injected models to accommodate the fuel pump which is located inside the tank on the left rear. The carburetored models would not need this wider tank so that may explain why one tank is wider than the other.
Still speaking of the fuel tank, yes, the earlier tanks joints between the various parts were fusion arc welded. This was replaced with the resistance seam welded tanks design you show.
Fusion arc welded joints have small weld joints which concentrate the stresses. This leads to cracks in the weld joint and when the joint is sealing fluids, leaks can result.
The wider seam weld is much less likely to crack so hopefully leaks will be a thing of the past.

As I mentioned, the rear snails used for adjusting the rear wheel location is an old design and there is nothing wrong with it but the newer screw adjustable design is a more precise device and is a little easier to use to adjust the rear wheel alignment.

What you didn't show is some of the hidden improvements Royal Enfield has made.

Over the past 5 years, the wiring harness has had a number of improvements made.
We in the US often referred to the harness inside the headlight casquette as "the snarl", or "the rats nest". That has been corrected and is now fairly neat and tidy.

The old glass fuses with the metal ends have been replaced with modern plug in fuses which are much less likely to develop internal breaks.

The 2009-2010 sprag clutch was still a weak design. It was replaced with a much more robust design in 2011 and it rarely gives a problem.

There were a few cases of the large bolt that holds the sprag clutch and drive sprocket to the crankshaft coming loose. I was told that Royal Enfield changed that bolt and the crankshaft to a left hand thread to reduce the likelihood of it coming loose.

I'm sure there are dozens of other hidden things that have been improved but I can't think of them off the top of my head at the moment.

Thanks again.

[Tgo]

Thank you Jim for some more interesting facts from the past.

I thought the C5 and the Classic 500 have just one difference and that is the O2 sensor sending feedback to the fuel injection system.

The old slimmer tanks were available on the fuel injected classics too and very well had the fuel pump assembly where it is on the newer tanks. I think the newer wider tanks were just meant to be in due course of time to size the bike up a bit. But I'm wondering how the fuel tank capacity remains the same. I'm estimating an increase of about 1.5 L at least.

The glass fuses are something I can relate to as I have them on my 2009 Thunderbird too. They are so flimsy and seat so badly in their holders that I doubt if they ever work. The plug type fuses make things inside the side box very neat and help keep everything where it should be.

The sprag clutch was also a costly replacement which I never bothered to go with as I had the option of kick starting the bike. Postponed for some time.

On a different note, I always thought that all Enfield headlamps have a provision for adjusting the beam but a friend who owns a Classic 500 is frustrated from the fact that his bike has no provision for it. Same goes for all the bikes in the retro, street and classic range in India. Only the TBs and the CGT have this provision. If not an adjusting screw (TB, CGT) you can lower or raise the beam by rotating the headlamp dome along the mounting bolt axis.

And I also think that the length of wires in the wiring harness now a days is shorter making its packaging and concealment under body panels easier and neater.

[ArizonaJim]

I believe none of the Royal Enfields using the 7 inch (178mm) headlight in the casquette with the "tiger eyes" is really "adjustable".

The U.S. Department Of Transportation (DOT) agrees with me and before allowing Royal Enfields to be imported into the US insisted that a truly adjustable headlight be incorporated.
This resulted in Royal Enfield using a screw adjustable headlight rim with a small 5 3/4 inch (146mm) sealed beam bulb which boarders on worthless at night. This small headlight is basically one of the small Hi/Low lights that were popular back in the days when automobiles had 4 headlights.

One of the first thing that most Royal Enfield owners in the US do is to replace this abomination with an old fashioned 7 inch headlight even though it is not adjustable.
My 5 3/4" light and adjustable rim is sitting on the back of a shelf in my storage room.
My 7" Lucas cost me $100 USD (about 6000 rupee) but the traditional look of it was worth it to me.
Although the DOT can control what enters our Nation, it is up to the individual States to write the laws for vehicles operating in each State and most of them (including Arizona) do not require a adjustable headlight so my old fashioned Lucas is totally legal here.

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

...
My dad was completely not interested in cars. Purely a means of transportation. Buying one was a bit of a chore. One day I got home and he told me he bought a new car. I told him, did you actually sit in it, because I think it might be a bit small for you? No, he replied, I just walked around it once. Luckily, I managed to get the order cancelled.

I remember once, I took my dad to go on a new car hunt. So we walked into a dealer and the sales guy spots us and recognizes my dad. He sold him a car many years ago. He walks up to my dad and introduces himself and says; Nice to see you again Mr. D. It's been a while, at least ten years. If I remember correctly the only thing that matters for you is the colour and even that is not really relevant at all!

When we eventually walked out of the dealership my dad told me: Great sales guy, he really understands what I'm looking for. Go and order whatever in any colour. So I ordered him a new Audi 100, all the options ticked, in a color I liked. My dad was very pleased.

Now, my dad might have been a bit extreme, but I can't help but think that most people who buy new cars or bikes haven't got a clue. That is, from my point of view/perception. For my dad the only criteria was in essence to get in and out of the dealership and place an order in the minimum time. Buying a car, was like buying a loaf of bread to him. It just didn't interest him.

...


My wife chooses her car on what she thinks looks nice or cute. There is no other buying criteria! So it's like: I like this one and I don't like that one.

Don't argue, just break out the credit card. Her choice is as good as mine, just different criteria. Key to a happy marriage!!! Suck it up guys.

...
Jeroen

OT, but out of curiosity, while I can understand your wife, but your father is a mystery. May I ask about his profession? That may give
a clue. At least one wants to get a feel of the seats, even women.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by fighterace

I can understand your wife, but your father is a mystery. May I ask about his profession? That may give me a clue. At least one wants to get a feel of the seats, even women.

He was a lawyer. Cars did not interest him. Having to spend time on buying a new one, was a nuisance to him.

Jeroen

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

He was a lawyer. Cars did not interest him. Having to spend time on buying a new one, was a nuisance to him.

Jeroen

And I guess a very focussed and successful lawyer. Cars to him must have been what laws are to people like us (I'm the sorts who'd like to spend weekends with mechanics).

Regards

Fighterace

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by fighterace

And I guess a very focussed and successful lawyer. Cars to him must have been what laws are to people like us (I'm the sorts who'd like to spend weekends with mechanics).

Oh yes, very focussed, working 6 days a week, two weeks off for the annual summer holiday. Top of his profession. He did have other interests, such as reading, and he published and taught law as well.

Jeroen

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Oh yes, very focussed, working 6 days a week, two weeks off for the annual summer holiday. Top of his profession. He did have other interests, such as reading, and he published and taught law as well.

Jeroen

A lawyer and an academician. No wonder he was not concerned about cars.

[samarth.bhatia]

Now this here is a really wonderful thread..
Brings out such subtle details. Good to see the RE team being proactive towards better designs.

I had observed some of these difference (for instance the weld type on the tank edges) on the Thunderbird, while comparing it to the Classic 500 of the pre-new logo time. My decision in favour of the TB was a lot to do with it being a more fresh product, featuring such small yet significant engineering difference.

Sam