[ebonho]

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

But in a nutshell, the Ninja250 is a high revving bike which is happy doing upwards of 6k rpm mostly.

Actually Abhinav, its a lot to do with how you ride it. I never felt the baby Ninja to be dead below 6K rpm as everyone suggests. You just give it the beans and she revs clean and quick and effortlessly. And I loved the entire feel and stance on the bike.

In a nutshell, the baby Ninja is a lovely bike at a crappy price.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by ebonho

In a nutshell, the baby Ninja is a lovely bike at a crappy price.

Well said Doc! For seasoned riders, yes the Ninja would feel at home.
Why even the D200 which many feel that you have to change a lot of gears is actually fun if you give it the beans with the limited space available on city roads. The expectation of getting to the highest gear at lowest speed/as quickly as possible should be forgotten with these bikes. I learned this after I finished the run-in. Now with 4300kms on the clock, the bike feels eager and revv happy on the city streets.

@RU153 - Bro, by no means am i saying that you are not a seasoned rider

PS: Sriram - Dude, are we likely to read the Duke & RC comparo on this thread soon.

[ru153]

[quote=abhinav.s;3587210]If you go through the wonderfully updated thread by our own moderator n_aditya of his Ninja250, the above questions are all answered there. But in a nutshell, the Ninja250 is a high revving bike which is happy doing upwards of 6k rpm mostly. So if your route does not allow you to ride this way, you better look at other choices. But please do visit Aditya's thread if you have not already and have a read through if you're considering the ZX250.

Thanks Abhinav for your reference. Will go through the link..

[sriramv.iyer]

Originally Posted by ru153

Hi Sriram,

Thank you again for your suggestion. Based on your inputs, i decided to go and check out on Duke 390 at Probiking showroom @ BTM layout. To my surprise, there was this new Kwacker Zx 250 which is a quarter litre twin engine. It had amazing fit and finish, than compared to D390. Zx250 also has an upright position, which on a stand still looks convenient and comfortable. When asked for a trial, he just denied, stating that no RTO formalities.

Z250 is super drool worthy bike! However, no test rides offered as yet.

Now the confusion again piled up. Based on your experience and any input can you answer me the following questions;

1. Wrto KTM duke 390, how is the gear ratio? I meant, in my CBR i had to change my gears very frequently. I rode my colleagues D200, which also requires frequent gear changes. This is in the case of B2B traffic in blore. My majority portion of ride is within traffic.

D390 is way more mature than D200 which is really frantic. So, you don't need a lot of gear-changes with D390. Slot it in 3rd gear, and you can go as low as 25 kmph without knocking and go upto 100 kmph before hitting the redline.

2. How is the gear ratio in Ninja 300/250 as Zx 250 takes the engine from their other siblings? Does that involve frequent gear change?

I have had few short rides on 250R. The same engine, without much changes in gearbox powers Z250. The low-end is non-existent (I also saw Doc's reply saying it is not as bad as I depict it to be). But, I really wanted the bike to move, and it wouldn't unless I release a lot of clutch - This was in 1st gear!!!!

N300 is much much better, and the low end grunt and mid-range is much improved. Both the engines sing after 6K-7K RPM

3. The zx 250 does not come with ABS or metzeller tyres? So from breaking/Panic breaking perspective how does ninja 250/300 or zx 250 perform when compared to Duke 390. Is Ninja a city rider or long tourer?

Neither Ninja nor the Z250 come with either ABS or Metzelers. Braking is pretty good in both the bikes. (I think both have the same braking assembly)

Ninja's riding position is not as committed as RC390, and has a huge fuel tank, and not very vibey too. It can be used in both city and long tours. It is a wonderful bike.

My complain about Z250 is that they should have the same 300cc mill as Ninja 300 and made it a Z300 instead. Why put in an old engine? And the engine characteristic doesn't suit the naked bike at all! (I'll reserve more comments after a test ride)

But, if you feel the driving position convenient, and your wife likes it too, then go ahead and pick it up (unless you are a performance junkie and would prefer D390)

4. I have heard couple of comments, where ppl did mention D390 seats are hard and is there any seats adjustment vendor in blore, with whom i can touch base. I was also in the look out of having some back rest. I did not see any specific note in the forum. Do you guys have any pics or any one done this kind of alteration. This is mainly because, when i want to take doubles on this bike, i just want to secure my pillion from falling. I know this is typical old school of biking, but just want to double check guys.

D390's seats are not as hard as RC390 - But, that's not saying much. I do get some pain when I ride D390 over some distance. I don't get to move much with D390 and that could be the reason.

I am not sure if there are alterations for either of the bikes (D390 / Z250 etc) for a back rest.

Did you check out Inazuma? It is a wonderful tourer, and apparently it has a silky smooth engine - As a big plus, pillion seat is wonderful too.

Let me know your feedback again. Ppl on the forum do share your insights, as this confusion is sort of killing. Hope not many ppl would have faced this kind of a situation. I dont want to make another mistake, as i did in the past on my cbr 250. Hence these questions.

I think you need a powerful tourer with a good pillion.
1. Rule out RC390
2. Do a quick ride with D390 (No wrist pain here for sure - Very upright seating position)
3. I don't think high about the pillion seat of Z250 or N300. Definitely better than D390, but that's not saying a lot.
4. Check out Inazuma - This, IMO is a very good option

Originally Posted by ebonho

Actually Abhinav, its a lot to do with how you ride it. I never felt the baby Ninja to be dead below 6K rpm as everyone suggests. You just give it the beans and she revs clean and quick and effortlessly. And I loved the entire feel and stance on the bike.

In a nutshell, the baby Ninja is a lovely bike at a crappy price.

Doc, I found N250's engine absolutely dead at low revvs. But, again, I might have been influenced by the bikes I have ridden earlier

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

Well said Doc! For seasoned riders, yes the Ninja would feel at home.
Why even the D200 which many feel that you have to change a lot of gears is actually fun if you give it the beans with the limited space available on city roads.

I'd anyday pick D200 over D390 for the city

The expectation of getting to the highest gear at lowest speed/as quickly as possible should be forgotten with these bikes. I learned this after I finished the run-in. Now with 4300kms on the clock, the bike feels eager and revv happy on the city streets.

+1 !!

PS: Sriram - Dude, are we likely to read the Duke & RC comparo on this thread soon.

Sure Abhinav - Was out of town over the weekend. No writing nor riding. Also had a small mishap with RC390 - More on that too.

[ru153]

N300 is much much better, and the low end grunt and mid-range is much improved. Both the engines sing after 6K-7K RPM


Neither Ninja nor the Z250 come with either ABS or Metzelers. Braking is pretty good in both the bikes. (I think both have the same braking assembly)

But, if you feel the driving position convenient, and your wife likes it too, then go ahead and pick it up (unless you are a performance junkie and would prefer D390)

D390's seats are not as hard as RC390 - But, that's not saying much. I do get some pain when I ride D390 over some distance. I don't get to move much with D390 and that could be the reason.

I am not sure if there are alterations for either of the bikes (D390 / Z250 etc) for a back rest.

Did you check out Inazuma? It is a wonderful tourer, and apparently it has a silky smooth engine - As a big plus, pillion seat is wonderful too.



I think you need a powerful tourer with a good pillion.
1. Rule out RC390
2. Do a quick ride with D390 (No wrist pain here for sure - Very upright seating position)
3. I don't think high about the pillion seat of Z250 or N300. Definitely better than D390, but that's not saying a lot.
4. Check out Inazuma - This, IMO is a very good option

Hi Sriram,

I checked out Inazuma, few weeks back and what i hear from this forum and other forums is due to poor sales, Suzuki has stopped assembling Inazuma in India. So, that is ruled out.

The finish on Z250 is better that D390. is that true and do you also agree to that. There were few comments in this forum that, there were wires hanging open, unlike the Ninja, which has a nice fit n finish.

But nice, you mentioned that, in 3rd gear, i can go as low as 25 to 100kmph, which is okay for me in my day to day, b2b rides in blore ORR traffic. What abt the heating concerns in N250 or for that matter D390?

Sorry buddy, i keep asking too many questions,which might be obvious but pls bare with me. I am a car guy and want to come back and start off with bikes with no mistakes, hence too many questions buddy

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

Doc, I found N250's engine absolutely dead at low revvs. But, again, I might have been influenced by the bikes I have ridden earlier

Could be the same here. Or maybe I had heard so much about the bike being dead, that first chance I got to ride one, I wrung her out, and was pleasantly surprised. I rememember having long discussions about this with Wolfy (Kapil) here as well, during the days I was confused between the N250 and the D390. Niranjan's PMs to me kind of settled the issue, the germ of which had been sown by Ram.

If you want dead, as in dead, ride an inline 4 (600 preferably) "normally" and see how long it takes for the motor to perk up.

And then equally, how you soil your pants when it does, suddenly, like a switch .....

[sriramv.iyer]

Originally Posted by ru153

Hi Sriram,

I checked out Inazuma, few weeks back and what i hear from this forum and other forums is due to poor sales, Suzuki has stopped assembling Inazuma in India. So, that is ruled out.

I was of the impression that some dealers have clarified that Suzuki will continue to make Inazuma in India.

The finish on Z250 is better that D390. is that true and do you also agree to that. There were few comments in this forum that, there were wires hanging open, unlike the Ninja, which has a nice fit n finish.

No comparison here - Kawis are much better put together compared to the KTMs

Honestly, I don't understand KTM - They'll give you ABS, Metzeler Sportec M5 tires, Steel braided lines, stellar engine etc. at a mouth watering price, but would skimp on build quality

Kawis give a brilliant build quality, but would skip on important safety aspects like ABS.

But, the brakes are pretty good in Kawis

But nice, you mentioned that, in 3rd gear, i can go as low as 25 to 100kmph, which is okay for me in my day to day, b2b rides in blore ORR traffic. What abt the heating concerns in N250 or for that matter D390?

D390 heats up in B2B traffic - I don't feel that much now (or since 2K-3K kms later) - Don't know much about Z250. Shouldn't be as bad as D390

Sorry buddy, i keep asking too many questions,which might be obvious but pls bare with me. I am a car guy and want to come back and start off with bikes with no mistakes, hence too many questions buddy

Absolutely no problem at all! Will be glad to help (within limits of my knowledge and experience )

Originally Posted by ebonho

Could be the same here. Or maybe I had heard so much about the bike being dead, that first chance I got to ride one, I wrung her out, and was pleasantly surprised. I rememember having long discussions about this with Wolfy (Kapil) here as well, during the days I was confused between the N250 and the D390. Niranjan's PMs to me kind of settled the issue, the germ of which had been sown by Ram.

Looks like it is all a matter of perspective, Doc! I'll ride a Z250 if I can get a hands on it. (Even the guys at dealership said -"Very bad pick up, Sir" )

If you want dead, as in dead, ride an inline 4 (600 preferably) "normally" and see how long it takes for the motor to perk up.

Never rode one - I wish I can get hands on one. I had a mighty 90-degree V-Twin which was as jumpy as D390 (Hyosung GT650N)

And then equally, how you soil your pants when it does, suddenly, like a switch .....

Now I really want to

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

Was out of town over the weekend. No writing nor riding. Also had a small mishap with RC390 - More on that too.

Oh boy!! Hope nothing nasty! and i hope your brake/gear levers are intact!! A 3 day old RC came to SVC for replacing a broken brake lever which was not at all in stock at any dealers. He settled for a duke one finally (aluminium finish as opposed to the black one on the RC)

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by ru153

But nice, you mentioned that, in 3rd gear, i can go as low as 25 to 100kmph, which is okay for me in my day to day, b2b rides in blore ORR traffic. What abt the heating concerns in N250 or for that matter D390?

Sorry buddy, i keep asking too many questions,which might be obvious but pls bare with me. I am a car guy and want to come back and start off with bikes with no mistakes, hence too many questions buddy

I will take the liberty of adding my views on the duke 390 specifically .


I recently purchased the bike about a month back and so far covered 900km on it . My previous experience was solely on a '86 enfield bullet with the gear on the right side and rear brake application only . The point I want to stress is I am was not experienced with a bike of this capability or conventional riding habit like gear on right side and front brake application , I mention this because you yourself highlighted that you are coming from a car and I guess feeling a bit nervous .

I took 2 test rides , the thing that attracted me immediately was the connection with the bike , it goes where you want it to go and stops nicely . I don't do high speeds with either car or motorcycle on highways but the acceleration sold me out . Aside from the acceleration , the presence of ABS was crucial too , me being a disc brake newbie this matters A LOT . It is a forgiving bike but rewards you when you demand it , and a person like me can own and enjoy this for a long time before I hit the limits and I doubt I will ever need faster acceleration(I have already promised myself never to cruise at speeds above 100 ) .

My riding so far has been what can be called city roads with frequent twists and turns but mostly devoid of slow traffic which I avoid like plague . You can easily enjoy this bike in city but you need open roads , riding a bike in slow traffic is a boring and if long enough then infuriating experience but more so with this . You have to keep the rpm at least around 5/6k to keep the engine happy . I myself have not ventured out to highways much but I stay in the cantt. here and this being a very old cantt. is huge , roads are empty and good and the turns are the next best thing to be being on a proper track .

My riding habit means I use 3rd 75% of the time , 2nd 20% and 1st or 4th the rest 5%. 3rd is good for as low(you can do 25 but below 4k rpm , the bike snatches and feels weak ) as 35 and you can redline at 105kmph . But maximum cruising speed in 3rd that I am comfortable with (comfort being an equation of exhaust sound which is really loud near red line and vibes ) is 80kmph , city will normally mean you are doing 50-70 and 3rd is well suited for that .


If you plan to use it for commute everyday to office in hectic traffic , you won't enjoy . That I say from my perspective but then I don't enjoy riding bikes in heavy traffic , car is better for that . Purchase this bike as a luxury/leisure vehicle , not as a primary for all kind of chores.

Engine heat - so far zero issues but by the time I took delivery , room temp. had plummeted to 25/26 . The left side even during riding is a constant source of heat - this if you have noticed is because of the exhaust bend pipe , the heat is not uncomfortable right now but in slower traffic during summer(summers up here north are HOT ) , I feel it will be , the seat from underneath becomes warm too . When the bike is at a standstill , the radiator kicks in if temps get too high and the general vicinity will get noticeably warmer . But again as I said , this is not a bike for traffic where you find yourself stopping dead or crawling every 2-5 minutes .

Mileage returned in mostly 3rd gear riding is 22/23 . Overall the bike is holding up very well though that hardly means a lot as it is the next best thing to a brand new bike right now.

Pillion riding - the feedback from my pillion has been negative , she(not wife , I am unmarried ) is fine to accompany for 10-15km trips to the mall etc but refused point blank for a highway cruise . Says the seat is uncomfortable , intimate and the grab rails are useless ( which of course I have no complaint with ).

[stormy]

Congratulations sriram ! I have been a regular at your duke390 thread though passive only as I wasnt able get my profile activated. Infact it is because of your thread that I was able to convince myself to get the d390!
Just one question- are you keeping both the bikes for now?

[sriramv.iyer]

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

Oh boy!! Hope nothing nasty! and i hope your brake/gear levers are intact!! A 3 day old RC came to SVC for replacing a broken brake lever which was not at all in stock at any dealers. He settled for a duke one finally (aluminium finish as opposed to the black one on the RC)

Thanks for checking - But, that's the exact problem - I had a small fall and the gear assembly including the connecting rod, gear lever are all broken. Even the hand gear lever is bent. The issues have been fixed, but the bike is still at the service center (for past 5 days - I also asked them to complete the registration and give me the bike - Didn't want to travel back and forth every alternate day given that the commute is too long)

Originally Posted by basuroy

I will take the liberty of adding my views on the duke 390 specifically .

Thanks for sharing your detailed feedback. I agree with almost all of them, except two points immediately below:

You have to keep the rpm at least around 5/6k to keep the engine happy .

I found that D390 pulls from all gears - The mid-range is terrific and it is even more fun at 5-6K+ RPMs

If you plan to use it for commute everyday to office in hectic traffic , you won't enjoy . That I say from my perspective but then I don't enjoy riding bikes in heavy traffic , car is better for that . Purchase this bike as a luxury/leisure vehicle , not as a primary for all kind of chores.

I use it exactly for everyday commute (Despite the fact I have a New Ford Fiesta (2012) and a Honda City (2011) )

Even short rides are fun once we get a clear road. I have had bigger bikes which are super pain in terrible traffic. D390 (and RC390) and much easier to live with.

Mileage returned in mostly 3rd gear riding is 22/23 . Overall the bike is holding up very well though that hardly means a lot as it is the next best thing to a brand new bike right now.

I have been getting between 22 - 24 kmpl based on how I ride - Exactly like yours

Pillion riding - the feedback from my pillion has been negative , she(not wife , I am unmarried ) is fine to accompany for 10-15km trips to the mall etc but refused point blank for a highway cruise . Says the seat is uncomfortable , intimate and the grab rails are useless ( which of course I have no complaint with ).

+1 - I completely echo your opinion

Originally Posted by stormy

Congratulations sriram ! I have been a regular at your duke390 thread though passive only as I wasnt able get my profile activated. Infact it is because of your thread that I was able to convince myself to get the d390!
Just one question- are you keeping both the bikes for now?

Thanks @stormy! Glad to hear that!

Btw, I am keeping both of them for now. (Don't know for how long!) - I have been riding D390 for the past few days, and I am having an absolute blast!

[ru153]

@ Sriram & Basuroy:

Thanks for the prompt response and the practicality. I guess, i will have similar approach to my daily commute in the intial few days, in order to get a hang of the bike (if i get one for myself).

Let me take the test ride and then post an update to you guys.

[Ricci]

OT :
I saw some pictures of RC390s taken in Sunday 23 Nov, at Duke's resort , Lonavala, I think they're removed from this thread. Were you with the group of riders of 2 Hayabusas, a yellow CBR600RR, a Ninja 650 and 2 Dukes ?

[basuroy]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

I found that D390 pulls from all gears - The mid-range is terrific and it is even more fun at 5-6K+ RPMs

I use it exactly for everyday commute (Despite the fact I have a New Ford Fiesta (2012) and a Honda City (2011) )

Even short rides are fun once we get a clear road. I have had bigger bikes which are super pain in terrible traffic. D390 (and RC390) and much easier to live with.

I agree with you , what I meant to say was during cruising , it is best to maintain the rpm above 5/6k as sustained speed at say 4k rpm will be a boring and in lower gears a snatchy experience . The acceleration is very good down below but from mid and then after 7k it is brutal , sometimes when I find myself on an open stretch and alone , I drop a gear and go WOT for that sudden jump in exhaust note

The commuting comments from me is biased because I already don't enjoy riding motorcycle in very heavy traffic (and here 70%+ roads don't have divider and 2 lane which means safe overtaking is almost non existent ) . Just to elaborate regarding this particular bike , I feel the major issue I will face and that too during summer is engine heat(it is cold here now and so this is not a problem ) , also in really slow traffic like where it is near impossible to exceed 30kmph , the low rpm snatching in 1st and 2nd gear can be a botheration . I have of course ridden it through hectic traffic , didn't face any issues. The traffic itself is the issue here .

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

I found that D390 pulls from all gears - The mid-range is terrific and it is even more fun at 5-6K+ RPMs

Totally agree with Basu here. Anything below 4.5 k is lethargic. "Cruising range" would be between 5 - 7 k RPM. And after that is WOOHOOO

And I think 5 - 6 k would be the mid range on a bike that redlines at 10.5. Anything lower than that would be the low range, no?

And before I forget - Congos on the bike bud. You are probably the only dude who owns both the versions of the 390