[Ironhide]

Originally Posted by adrian

I beg to differ here. There is nothing complex inside a carburetor that is irreparable by the rider. Just keep spare jets, floats and a rubber diaphragm (CV carburetors) .If you are over cautious, you can keep a spare carburetor, plonk it in and move on. More over it is repairable by any roadside mechanic.

Agreed

But, I being me, would rather that the bike (or any of its parts) did not give up on me.

An FI Engine, would take in the rarefied atmosphere in its calculations (with inputs from the O2 sensor) and would not let power drop. To do the same , one would be tinkering with carburettors in Leh , inserting wires, blocking/ unblocking jet holes etc or replacing them altogether with ones suited for the rarefied air at that altitude. I, being a little lazy would rather have my bike do these things for me even as I ride, while I enjoy the magnificent vistas and take in the cool and fresh (rarefied) air!

Now consider the following scenario : An EFI motorcycle tips in a water crossing frying its n number of sensors and on board computer? No, I don't want to be the rider of that motorcycle.

Most EFI motorcycles, and all the new gen ones, with or without a carburettor tend to be rather reliable, because they are built that way. The older gen bikes had a host of problems because of parts giving up or poor power issues, especially in terrain as unforgiving as Ladakh, as I had pointed out in the link in my previous post. Of all the Ladakh/ Spiti travelogues, I have hardly seen any in which the new gen bikes have failed.

Cheers !

[dustom_99]

Originally Posted by adrian

I beg to differ here. There is nothing complex inside a carburetor that is irreparable by the rider. Just keep spare jets, floats and a rubber diaphragm (CV carburetors) .If you are over cautious, you can keep a spare carburetor, plonk it in and move on. More over it is repairable by any roadside mechanic.

Now consider the following scenario : An EFI motorcycle tips in a water crossing frying its n number of sensors and on board computer? No, I don't want to be the rider of that motorcycle.

OT : The traveler in the link provided seems to stand on his tail for what ever he has encountered in India

Well EFI onboard computer is pretty much water proof , Not like 10 bar water proof wrist watch but it still resists entry of water in most good days. So are the crittical sensors and and most of the crittical wiring harness couplers.
Moreover any offroad vehicle designer ( specially motorcycle) will consider going down while crossing a ford , so, most probably EFI will only throw you a "Check engine light/MIL" and move on .
Even with most of the sensors going bad on a bad day ( It must be hell of a bad day to do that), most vehicle will still start and run in " Take me Home mode"
But EFI have very good AFR alteration mechanism which makes engine work like a charm from SEA level to Highest motorable road. Also Most EFI will detect Knock and adjust ignition timing accordingly , so no more worries about getting bad fuel in remote places.

By the way , I dig this Himalayan concept from RE. should be an awesome ride on battered Himalayan roads. But at the same time I do not want them to mess too much with low end torque for some horsepower number. Torque is your best friend on steep inclines.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by Ironhide

Agreed

But, I being me, ...................bikes have failed.

Cheers !

Originally Posted by dustom_99

Well EFI onboard computer.........steep inclines.

Fully agree on the superior technology of the EFI over the carburetor by the way it meters the air fuel ratio based on different riding conditions and the way it protects the engine from knocking.

I was talking about the ease of repair and move on feature of the carburetor fitted motorcycles. The more complex the motorcycle, the more difficult it gets to rectify some things that may happen in remote regions.

Now we are speculating about a probable EFI motorcycle that is to be rolled out by Royal Enfield, whose QC especially in the wiring department is notorious. If you search the motorcycle section, you can find several cases where RE EFI motorcycles came back home in goods carriers.

If RE takes up the challenge and rolls out a bullet proof EFI motorcycle, then being a die hard fan of RE, I will be a really happy man.

[outofthebox]

Originally Posted by adrian

If RE takes up the challenge and rolls out a bullet proof EFI motorcycle, then being a die hard fan of RE, I will be a really happy man.

Well said mate, thats's my wish too. On a lighter note - if it's 'Bullet-proof' then it won't be a 'Bullet' anymore, right?

That said, I have seen a fair share of $$$$ super bikes coming back on goods carriers too over the years. I would rather pay less up front if using a goods carrier is inevitable once in a while regardless of the pedigree of bike.

That's advantage RE for sure.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

On a lighter note - if it's 'Bullet-proof' then it won't be a 'Bullet' anymore, right?

I don't want the new motorcycle to be 'Bullet - proof' in that sense. May be RE could incorporate all the good features that were present in the older models in the new motorcycle. For eg : The very early models could be made to run straight out of the dynamo / alternator with a flip of a switch (Am very much aware that it is impossible to be incorporated on a motorcycle with EFI ). So even if the battery dies on you, the motorcycle will take you home. May be I am too much demanding, but similar features are what comes to mind when I think of an adventure tour-er motorcycle.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by adrian

I don't want the new motorcycle to be 'Bullet - proof' in that sense. May be RE could incorporate all the good features that were present in the older models in the new motorcycle. For eg : The very early models could be made to run straight out of the dynamo / alternator with a flip of a switch (Am very much aware that it is impossible to be incorporated on a motorcycle with EFI ). So even if the battery dies on you, the motorcycle will take you home. May be I am too much demanding, but similar features are what comes to mind when I think of an adventure tour-er motorcycle.

Adrian mate I admire your passion for simple mechanicals and old reliable tech. Ask me I have been riding them vintage CI Bullets and vouch by their simple mechanicals and easy to fix nature. But on the other hand I also have the Tbird500 which has EFi and except for once has never let me down so far on my rides in rain or shine. Most of the modern motorcycles today come with EFi including world class Adventure Tourers like BMW R1200GS, Triumph Tiger, KTM ADV 1290, etc. I have a AVL Tbird 350 2004 model which runs on CDI and I can tell from my experience that it can start with very little power from the battery in fact it also starts with the battery almost dead. But that's not the point here new batteries are maintenance free and reliable. All we want RE is to take notice of the evolving market and offer us a trouble free and reliable adventure tourer motorcycle. Waiting with bated breath for the RE Himalayan

[saargoga]

Originally Posted by adrian

Now we are speculating about a probable EFI motorcycle that is to be rolled out by Royal Enfield, whose QC especially in the wiring department is notorious. If you search the motorcycle section, you can find several cases where RE EFI motorcycles came back home in goods carriers.

If RE takes up the challenge and rolls out a bullet proof EFI motorcycle, then being a die hard fan of RE, I will be a really happy man.

I was on this trip where we had to cross water 1 1/2-2ft deep the fuse box was fully submerged, not once but more than 4 times, fortunately for me riding c5 to sachpass was one of the best experiences. but that's that I feel this cylinder kit is going to be dead in a year or two again, so from my view point EFI is not RE's issues their cheapass quality of metal is more prone to failures. yes they are very shabby with wiring too.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Most of the modern motorcycles today come with EFi including world class Adventure Tourers like BMW R1200GS, Triumph Tiger, KTM ADV 1290, etc.

Originally Posted by saargoga

I was on this trip where we had to cross water 1 1/2-2ft deep the fuse box was fully submerged, not once but more than 4 times

Navin, the difference here is that the BMW/Triumph or KTM would not keep their motorcycles electronic components like the way RE does The picture is that of my motorcycles TCI unit with fuse boxes and flasher unit. During the rain, water enters the box through that gaping hole on the posterior wall of the chamber.



I don't know why on earth RE places these critical electronics components low down on the motorcycle without any protection. They could have placed it much higher, somewhere under the seat inside a water tight compartment. These things takes the confidence out of the rider, which happened to me when I was crossing a waterlogged street, when at one point water began to flow over the crankcase and God only knows what all things I prayed to Him

If anyone from RE is reading this : Please, no shabby designs for electrical works, at least in the new motorcycle.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by adrian

Navin, the difference here is that the BMW/Triumph or KTM would not keep their motorcycles electronic components like the way RE does The picture is that of my motorcycles TCI unit with fuse boxes and flasher unit. During the rain, water enters the box through that gaping hole on the posterior wall of the chamber.

Attachment 1403845

I don't know why on earth RE places these critical electronics components low down on the motorcycle without any protection. They could have place it much higher, somewhere under the seat inside a water tight compartment. These things takes the confidence out of the rider, which happened to me when I was crossing a waterlogged street, when at one point water began to flow over the crankcase and God only knows what all things I prayed to Him

If anyone from RE is reading this : Please, no shabby designs for electrical works, at least in the new motorcycle.

You are absolutely right. The electricals on Enfields are a shambles. There is no concept of water proofing. Bullets are meant to be ridden in the dry. If you are brave or stupid enough to ride them in pouring rain and flooded roads, be ready to push your bike and spend hours for it to dry out or for you to locate the short or the water damage.

[saargoga]

Originally Posted by ebonho

You are absolutely right. The electricals on Enfields are a shambles. There is no concept of water proofing. Bullets are meant to be ridden in the dry. If you are brave or stupid enough to ride them in pouring rain and flooded roads, be ready to push your bike and spend hours for it to dry out or for you to locate the short or the water damage.

Oh my you just call me either brave or stupid our group was first to cross sach pass this year as soon as it was opened and myself had my heart on gas burner the moment I fell with my c5 into water about knee deep a couple of times and especially us getting stalled in about 2 feet gushing icey water flow. I think you might have exaggerated a bit that bullets have no water proofing, they do to an extent of course, rains have absolutely no issues on c5, if you will see most sensors and electrical inputs are infuse sealed, the cpu is water proof most interconnections are left to water failure due to absurd level of incompetence of RE engineers for example the housing of CPU and fuse box is just too low, most serious bike manufacturers make that under seats and that too in a compartment that resist or diverts accidental water flow. Anyway its quite obvious the way wires just mesh around the FI fuel pump and sensors that they were not designed for the bike rather bolted over things to make it work with no changes to bike frame of 1950(literally). I hate my bullet but I love it too, it's a fool's errand really.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by adrian

Navin, the difference here is that the BMW/Triumph or KTM would not keep their motorcycles electronic components like the way RE does The picture is that of my motorcycles TCI unit with fuse boxes and flasher unit. During the rain, water enters the box through that gaping hole on the posterior wall of the chamber.

Adrian Mate I am with you on what you've just mentioned. I think RE needs to pull up its socks and give us some reliable electrical/electronic components with adequate protection to save it from nature's elements. But having said that I for one have never had any issues with my RE's in rains. The place where I stay (read Bombay) receives torrential downpour but I have so far never had any issues with my motorcycles. Yes I do have to get down sometimes to clear the moisture from the CB points but that's it(the ignition coil on my Standard CI is covered with a 500 ml soft drink plastic bottle to avoid water contact ). My other two steeds an AVL Tbird CDI and Tbird500 EFi have never let me down during rains.

I have taken my AVL Tbird to unknown places. In one instance I had to cross four streams of water crossing with two of them being really deep and this was coupled with heavy rains. The AVL Tbird chugged along without stalling and took me safely to my destination. It was really a monsoon adventure like our Jeep brothers do. I agree with you in terms of proper insulation for the electrical components to save them from water damage. Hope RE gets it right with the Himalayan which they claim to be an adventure tourer.

[barcalad]

The Royal Enfield Himalayan looks all set to be launched between 1.65 lakh and 1.85 lakh! Expected to launch in November 2015.

410cc / 28PS / 32 Nm

Source

[Vikram_agg]

Is it only me or does the Himalayan resembles the Arch motorcycle company's KRGT1 (Keanu Reeves GT1). The company started by Keanu himself.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by saargoga

Oh my you just call me either brave or stupid

I call you blessed instead.

People have been riding Bullets through knee deep water for decades now. And through everything and everywhere.

Does not change the reality as stated by some of us.

The electricals suck. I'd like to call a spade a spade, especially when I've lived with and loved the spade for 13 years and counting now.

Navin, I like the idea of the Pepsi bottle. Could you please post a close up photo of the same? No issue of heat, bottle melting etc.? My mech and I have isolated the water crossing issues to exactly this reason, more so because I have two coils and hence instead of one of them in the center of the metal plate, there are two side by side, close to the edge of the plate on both sides, and prone to water splash from the moving wheel.

[21Archer84]

Originally Posted by barcalad

The Royal Enfield Himalayan looks all set to be launched between 1.65 lakh and 1.85 lakh! Expected to launch in November 2015.

410cc / 28PS / 32 Nm

Now that's a mouth watering price for such a package, if true. Thinking of getting back to riding and this bike is definitely in my list (other being the upcoming Apache).

Wouldn't mind paying the booking amount upfront if the source is right, as I know for sure that there would be queue at RE dealerships once the bike is launched, adding to that would be the long waiting periods.