[Tushar]

Mod Note: Please continue the discussion on the new test-ride thread. Thanks!

Royal Enfield has been on a consistent upward sales curve for a few years now. The brand has been largely associated with lifestyle biking in India and has been gradually increasing its focus on international markets as well. The last new product launched was the Continental GT café racer and if a rumour is to be believed, the Chennai based motorcycle maker could develop an adventure-tourer labelled the Royal Enfield Himalayan.

The rumour cropped up after reports of Royal Enfield applying for a trademark on the name "Himalayan" emerged. Royal Enfield's association with the name Himalayan is being seen as a strong likelihood, largely because of the brand's popular association with the mountain range, including the annual Himalayan Odyssey. In early 2014, reports of the brand's plans for a new 400cc engine emerged and if the "Himalayan" does enter production, it could feature the new engine.

Last year, Royal Enfield hired designer Pierre Terblanche - who has worked for brands including Ducati, Cagiva, Moto Guzzi, Norton and Confederate motorcycles. If the project does indeed follow through, Terblanche will be the man crafting the Himalayan's design.

Source: Zigwheels

[man_of_steel]

Interesting news indeed.

A moderately priced locally made adventure bike is the single most genre of motorbikes that is most missed by the enthusiasts in the country (including yours truly). There have been many many rumors of the Adventure 390 and a powerful Impulse in the past which stayed as, well.. rumors! And I will be damned if Royal Enfield beats all other manufacturers and comes up with a proper adventure tourer!

[payeng]

Royal Enfield's image so far has been that of a "Classic British Bike" maker. A Classic Scrambler is closer to Royal Enfield's image rather than a modern Adventure (BMW GS/Triumph Tiger type bikes)..

.. not that Royal Enfield shouldn't try to re-invent itself... but then doing a "Proper" Adventure will take quite a lot of effort.. not just from Branding point of view but also from RnD, Engineering and Manufacturing aspect as well.

[petrolhead_neel]

Much needed!

Most probably, they would be using a modified Continental GT chassis. Read somewhere else that the infamous high end of RE engines will be improved in this one, maybe compromising a bit on the superb low end torque.

The 400cc engine should be fuel-injected IMO. This in turn, will prevent the Himalayan's engine clashing with the carbureted 350 Twinspark powered bikes, which itself is a very good engine for touring at moderate speeds. A FI unit will appeal to modernists and young bikers too.

Let's hope that RE prices it on par with the competition i. e. Ktm Duke 200/390, Honda CBR 250R and likes. With more and more bike makers coming to India and bikers shifting to them, an Indian biker still has a very soft corner for a RE machine.
But let's face it. The Classic is probably the last 'Bullet' that we are going to see.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by payeng

.. not that Royal Enfield shouldn't try to re-invent itself... but then doing a "Proper" Adventure will take quite a lot of effort.. not just from Branding point of view but also from RnD, Engineering and Manufacturing aspect as well.

Quite a valid point for a company which is not quite known for Development, let alone Research and Development! But If we see the history, RE has come quite a bit forward in the past 8-10 years than all the past years combined. The new RE's mantra is to appeal to a wider and younger class of customers. The U C Engine, the Thunderbirds, Continental GTs are all an example of that. So, who knows! May be there is a chance that RE has identified the demand for an adventure model and is working on that!

There is a not so old event I remember now. Almost an year back, I was contacted by a person via FB who said that he was a design intern for RE and is working on an internship project for an Adventure Model. He wanted to know what all I thought would be the perfect and essential characteristics of an adventure tourer! I almost forgot about the 1 hour chat session we had that day up until the past few days. So may be if we connect the dots from there to here, we might be on to something! Fingers crossed.

But Royal Enfield, if you are reading this PLEASE, lose some weight! We dont want the kerb weight in the Classic's or Thunderbird's territory for this one!

[tharian]

One thing I would want from RE for the next new model would be a bike that is bullet proof from day one.

A new model, a different sized engine and new design body parts are all good and the current UCE engine is what has done them a whole lot of good.

At present, I don't think any of their models are niggle free. Wiring issues, nuts/bolts falling off, rusting, instrument cluster issues. These are issues which should have been done away with long ago.

In a single line, a RE that should be reliable and niggle free as a Japanese manufacturer, but need not feel like one.

And coming to the new model, the Himalayan should be able to do the Leh trip after the first running in is over with no issues.

[Urban_Nomad]

Pierre T. - Your 1st great revolutionary contribution to this rumoured Enfield should be a counter-balanced engine. Should take care of the vibes and make things much much smoother

And as "man of steel" mentioned, lose weight and lots of it. All body panels in aluminium if not plastic(I am most happy with plastic), use the C-GTs light wheels and whatever else you can think of without pushing the cost high

And while we are at it ..... More power please!!!!

[B O V]

Given the name "Himalayan" , I sincerely hope that it is not just a fancy name and that it can actually go

I suppose the 400cc mill should be different in a few aspects of design from the 350 cc uce for it to make the rumoured 30% gain in torque. Should be a punchy mill.

Since Pierre T is on the team now, couldn't hurt to hope for a nice motorcycle.

Any thoughts on pricing, anyone?

Regards,

BOV

[Tushar]

Originally Posted by B O V

Any thoughts on pricing, anyone?

Honestly, if RE plans to launch an adventure tourer, the engine shouldn't be weaker than the already average 535 mill on the CGT. Pricing depends on if this will just look like or actually be a tourer. Ball park = Rs 2.38 Lakh

[navin_v8]

If this news comes to be true then RE will be the first Indian company (I am not sure to call Hero Impulse a adventure tourer motorcycle) to offer a adventure tourer motorcycle. But we must remember one thing, an adventure tourer motorcycle is very different from what they have on offer right now. KTM has a plethora of adventure tourer models right from 200 cc to monstrous 1290 cc but they have also admitted that their existing duke 390 can't be built around a adventure tourer as it requires a different platform all together. I am not sure if they can use the same twin cradle frame chassis to build a adventure tourer and RE should look at ditching the oldschool pushrod engine and go for a OHC free revving engine.

They can use a single cylinder engine (350 or 400cc) initially to keep the prices competitive (INR 2.5 lacs) and then move onto multi cylinder ones if at all they plan to build the rumoured 750 cc parallel twin or V twin. If RE manages to pull this off then they will truly break away from their retro classic mould and explore this huge untapped market. My suggestion to them would be to:

• Build the motorcycle using light weight components
• Use OHC engine with a free revving engine (preferably liquid cooled)
• Use longer travel front and rear suspension
• Use semi faired front (similar to the likes of Kawasaki Versys 650, KTM ADV 390, Benelli TNT 600 GT)
• Offer front and rear disc brake with ABS
• Equip with tubeless tyres
• Remember last but not the least to improve their Quality

I am an adventure tourer motorcycle enthusiast and have been eyeing adventure tourer models offered in India, it would be fun to see a RE adventure tourer.

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Originally Posted by tharian

One thing I would want from RE for the next new model would be a bike that is bullet proof from day one. At present, I don't think any of their models are niggle free. These issues which should have been done away with long ago. In a single line, a RE that should be reliable and niggle free as a Japanese manufacturer, but need not feel like one. And coming to the new model, the Himalayan should be able to do the Leh trip after the first running in is over with no issues.

Dear Tharian - (I like your name! ) - you are 1000% correct! These "issues" thingy has prevented me from putting down my money for one so far, as I have not yet seen a reliable RE! The MNC products are way beyond budget and there if anything happens, you had it big time! Irrespective of what "market research" guys say (after taking loads of money from the company), there is a huge market out there if you get it right! So, what is "right"? The "product" is the principle part of the equation, but there's much more to it than product! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[tharian]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Tharian - (I like your name! ) - you are 1000% correct! These "issues" thingy has prevented me from putting down my money for one so far, as I have not yet seen a reliable RE! The MNC products are way beyond budget and there if anything happens, you had it big time! Irrespective of what "market research" guys say (after taking loads of money from the company), there is a huge market out there if you get it right! So, what is "right"? The "product" is the principle part of the equation, but there's much more to it than product! .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Thank you. A member mistook my name for being a fan of the Mahindra Thar, which I am anyway.

You are right about the product being just one part of a success story .
RE is actually riding the wave of profits and good sales, but unfortunately, their support and service centers and quality are not part of that wave yet.
Now since they are minting, hopefully they invest in the right areas.

[man_of_steel]

Originally Posted by B O V

I suppose the 400cc mill should be different in a few aspects of design from the 350 cc uce for it to make the rumoured 30% gain in torque. Should be a punchy mill.

In my opinion, RE can do 2 things to make the engine more efficient

- Increase the compression ratio a bit more. Both UCE500 and UCE350 stands at a measly 8.5:1 now!
- Why not a 6th overdrive Cog? The comfortable cruising speed of 350 is around 80kmph and the 500 is around 90-95kmph. I have always had this feeling that both 350 and 500 with that amble low end and okay-ish midrange can make use of an overdrive 6th gear or atleast 5th gear! Currently the 5th gear ratio stands at 1:1. I am sure that an overdrive top gear can very well improve the cruising speed and reduce fuel consumption!

Any thoughts on pricing, anyone?

I will tell you what I would like. A RE adventure tourer selling at around 2.5 Lakhs (acceptable even if it is ex-showroom) with the following qualities

- Sturdier frame (May be the CGT's one as mentioned by another member) and @RE - please don't even think about going for the Classic's/Thunderbird's chassis!
- Light weight - Somewhere around 170kgs
- Long travel front and rear susp with the sturdy swingarm like that of the CGT
- Spoke wheels while retaining the 19" front
- knobby tyres - I guess wider version of Ceat Gripp used in Impulse will be a good bet (@RE - Please get out of your affair with MRF Zapper)
- Comfortable cruising speed of around 120kmph
- Tall wide windscreen (adjustable is asking for too much)
- Handlebars tall and wide enough to make a comfortable stand and ride position
- ABS and skidplate may be asking for too much at this price point and that too for RE but atleast leave some pannier mount points on the subframe!
- Good GC
- Lesser vibration - Improve the counter balancer or rubber mount the bloody engine on the CGT's frame
- Last but not the least. Reliable and living upto its name with no magic nuts and bolts that disappear mysteriously. Its not funny anymore!

As a customer am I asking for too much?

[msdivy]

'Himalayan' is an adjective in English language. Can it be trademarked?

Originally Posted by tharian

RE is actually riding the wave of profits and good sales, but unfortunately, their support and service centers and quality are not part of that wave yet.

I was a prospective Bullet customer. My colleague bought a fresh 350 and in the 2nd week it started leaking oil. Service center couldn't fix it. Finally after 2 months, he had to sell it and he bought a used (and tested ) Bullet. The bike is doing well. But I didn't want go through this and dropped bullet plan. This was few years ago, no idea if things have improved now.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by msdivy

'Himalayan' is an adjective in English language. Can it be trademarked?

"Himalayan" is neither descriptive of the product or its functions, nor laudatory. So the answer is "Yes"!