[GTO]

Can anyone tell me why Bajaj is so foolishly stubborn about not returning to the scooter segment? It's like a carmaker that refuses to launch compact SUVs & crossovers when the market is clearly moving in that direction.

Is it only stubbornness? Not wanting to eat one's own words? What else? I just can't understand why a man as intelligent as Rajiv Bajaj remains adamant on not making scooters.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by GTO

Can anyone tell me why Bajaj is so foolishly stubborn about not returning to the scooter segment? It's like a carmaker that refuses to launch compact SUVs & crossovers when the market is clearly moving in that direction.

Is it only stubbornness? Not wanting to eat one's own words? What else? I just can't understand why a man as intelligent as Rajiv Bajaj remains adamant on not making scooters.

A Man who does not have the heart to eat his own words, can hardly be called as intelligent.

In the Motorcycles segment, which they are focusing on,
- they have been defeated in 125cc segment by Honda and Hero.
- they have been de-throned in the Performance (150cc & above) Segment by RE.

Sometime back, it was possible to have a 'Discover' in multiple engine capacities, like 100cc, 110cc, 125cc, 135cc & 150cc, that too with a variety of Spark Plug combinations (single spark, double spark, etc) & gearbox combinations (5/4 speed).
It was like a Thali/Buffet restaurant, where you mix and match the pieces which you want. (Ok, I am exaggerating a bit)
And the icing on the cake, was that, each different variant could be discontinued all of a sudden, leaving the unluck buyer with an antique piece.
Similar stuff was seen with the Pulsar brand as well.

This type for poor brand management, combined with a inferior QC (compared to Honda, Yamaha, Hero), is preventing Bajaj to grow.

However, when the same question (on the above decline) is asked to our beloved Professor Know-it-all Mr. Bajaj, his answer always is always the same. "We want to focus on performance bikes". That's All.

[The Great]

Originally Posted by GTO

Can anyone tell me why Bajaj is so foolishly stubborn about not returning to the scooter segment?

The answer by the man himself.

Rajiv Bajaj On Scooters

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by The Great

The answer by the man himself.

Thank you for posting that. Was a good watch. The man surely has a vision, and is making all the right approaches to get that done. As a motorcycle manufacturer, they surely have come a long way as compared to the Chetak days of old!

Scooters can be attempted, but I doubt Bajaj will be able to make a big difference here. Market swears by the Activa and nothing else has been able to make a significant dent in our market till date.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Scooters can be attempted, but I doubt Bajaj will be able to make a big difference here. Market swears by the Activa and nothing else has been able to make a significant dent in our market till date.

The Activa commands nearly 50% of total scooter sales in India. A huge dominance on the market. Agreed.

But, look at it the other way. The Rivals have slowly eaten away the rest 50% of the market. That's a dent of 2.3 lakh sales, monthly.
And it is very much likely that this dent will widen slowly, with time.
There was a time when Activa has virtually no competition.
But now, every manufacturer has 3-4 Scooter Models with snazzy styling on offer.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

The Activa commands nearly 50% of total scooter sales in India. A huge dominance on the market. Agreed.

But, look at it the other way. The Rivals have slowly eaten away the rest 50% of the market. That's a dent of 2.3 lakh sales, monthly.
And it is very much likely that this dent will widen slowly, with time.
There was a time when Activa has virtually no competition.
But now, every manufacturer has 3-4 Scooter Models with snazzy styling on offer.

Is it only 50%?



For example - here's one chart from the two wheeler sales thread published earlier. May month selected only because its the first one that came up on the search. Activa sells almost 5x times that of the nearest competition. When you add Dio numbers to it, Honda has an ultra tight monopoly going on there.

But another interesting figure has caught my attention. A Bajaj product comes in that list, below the TVS Jupiter. TVS with even lesser heritage when it comes to scooters, has been selling more of them that Bajaj's top selling bike.

That's really something to think about, for Mr Bajaj.

PS - Even RE features higher in the top sellers list than Bajaj. No wonder the man has been targeting them for quite sometime now.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

It was like a Thali/Buffet restaurant, where you mix and match the pieces which you want. (Ok, I am exaggerating a bit)
And the icing on the cake, was that, each different variant could be discontinued all of a sudden, leaving the unluck buyer with an antique piece.
Similar stuff was seen with the Pulsar brand as well.

This type for poor brand management, combined with a inferior QC (compared to Honda, Yamaha, Hero), is preventing Bajaj to grow.

My mechanic told me one can't go and just buy a spare part for a Bajaj bike due to this reason. One must remove the old part and take it to the spare part shop to get a match. I have never liked Bajaj bikes. I bought a KB 100 back in 1989. The bad experience made me vow to never buy a Bajaj product again. I have owned Suzukis, Hondas and Yamahas before and after.Change the models/specs too often, your customer is struck with a lemon that has only scrap value.

That is why I loved Hero Honda! My Y2k Splendor is still as good (or as bad) as the current model! Very dependable spares and service support.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by GTO

Can anyone tell me why Bajaj is so foolishly stubborn about not returning to the scooter segment? It's like a carmaker that refuses to launch compact SUVs & crossovers when the market is clearly moving in that direction.

Is it only stubbornness? Not wanting to eat one's own words? What else? I just can't understand why a man as intelligent as Rajiv Bajaj remains adamant on not making scooters.

Answer is Simple: ACTIVA

Any other product is a throw of the Dice.. might work or might not work.

There is no Guarantee of success. And as Mahindra has found out, one might end of spending much more on trying to sell than actually making money.

[hubolt]

[Quote There is no Guarantee of success. And as Mahindra has found out, one might end of spending much more on trying to sell than actually making money.[/quote]

Have they? not really. Mahindra are still at it, this time they will try the retro route with the same 'me too' approach . Something bajaj is also attempting to do. Albeit in a different segment. Tough play, but interesting to see what happens.

[vinukm]

Originally Posted by payeng

Answer is Simple: ACTIVA

Any other product is a throw of the Dice.. might work or might not work.

There is no Guarantee of success. And as Mahindra has found out, one might end of spending much more on trying to sell than actually making money.

I feel TVS is catching up slowly. Jupiter has been successful and having owned 2 Honda scooters earlier and now a Jupiter, it is no way inferior to Activa. Infact I feel Jupiter is a better product. Honda is not reliable like the first gen Activa any more, they are driving because they have created a perception of being a good vehicle, which they were earlier.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Is it only 50%?

Yes, The Activa's market share is really just 50%.

The chart you quoted was the Top 20 one.
But, if we add all the other scooter sales on the same month across all brands, we will reach the 2.3 Lakh figure.

[PNTLovesNano]

Originally Posted by GTO

Can anyone tell me why Bajaj is so foolishly stubborn about not returning to the scooter segment? It's like a carmaker that refuses to launch compact SUVs & crossovers when the market is clearly moving in that direction.

Chetak was a geared scooter and Bajaj has unrivalled history in the automatic scooter segment. You can get each of its automatic scooters Sunny, Saffire, Wave, and Krystal under Rs.1000/-. Spare parts were available only with the brand new scooters and nowhere else. It is akine to Hindustan motors converting the Ambassador to an SUV and crossover. Will you buy that?

Is it only stubbornness? Not wanting to eat one's own words? What else? I just can't understand why a man as intelligent as Rajiv Bajaj remains adamant on not making scooters.

Kawaski, KTM, and Triumph are not in the scooter segment, so that explains his confidence.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Scooters can be attempted, but I doubt Bajaj will be able to make a big difference here. Market swears by the Activa and nothing else has been able to make a significant dent in our market till date.

Scooty, Scooty Pep, Wego, and now Jupyter. Thats how effort needs to be put to get a market share.

Originally Posted by payeng

Answer is Simple: ACTIVA

Any other product is a throw of the Dice.. might work or might not work.

TVS and even Suzuki with Access show otherwise. A shame that when Activa had long waiting list, Suzuki did not ramp up the production of Access. My wife drives it and it has been 6 years and 30K, and the scooter is as good as new.

Originally Posted by vinukm

I feel TVS is catching up slowly. ... which they were earlier.

Over the past few years, the Activa reliability has gone down the drain. It is right time for Jupyter to capture the market share.

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by PNTLovesNano

Kawaski, KTM, and Triumph are not in the scooter segment, so that explains his confidence.

Since you asked, here is a scooter from kawasaki. The J125.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Since you asked, here is a scooter from kawasaki. The J125.

Bajaj has severed all connections with Kawasaki in India, so it shouldn't really help.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by GTO

Can anyone tell me why Bajaj is so foolishly stubborn about not returning to the scooter segment? It's like a carmaker that refuses to launch compact SUVs & crossovers when the market is clearly moving in that direction.

Is it only stubbornness? Not wanting to eat one's own words? What else? I just can't understand why a man as intelligent as Rajiv Bajaj remains adamant on not making scooters.

Yes it is only stubbornness, plus the Safire disaster! They burnt their fingers on that one.

The Safire project was a massive investment from Bajaj. Developed in conjunction with Tokyo R&D this was a pet project with a lot of money pumped into design and manufacturing (the total project cost was tune to Rs.250 crores, nearly 2 decades ago). It had a cutting edge 3 speed variomatic transmission, which was supposed to deliver more power and mileage. This was Bajaj's first attempt at a full size scooter to take on Kinetic Honda and then the Activa ( I believe was available in the market a year after the Safire).

Oh did it BOMB?! It's not the first time a Bajaj product met with a disastrous response, back then Bajaj launched and withdrew products on a regular basis. But the Safire left a bitter after-taste.

Firstly the gearboxes failed and the service centers and regional maintenance managers struggled with irate customers. Plenty of cases where customers just left their vehicles in service centers after being fed up after repeated visits. Then the issues grew, the single link front suspension, body panels popping out etc...etc..

Bajaj did fix quite a few issues but insisted on the variomatic box which cost them a lot to develop. The suspension was replaced and later models were put together better. But the damage was done, dealers started pushing back on Safire orders, sales staff were reluctant to sell them, customers stayed away. Worse was the re-sale values, put it this way you might get more money weighing it and selling it as scrap. Bajaj gave hefty discounts and Activa waiting periods grew to almost 7 months, but no.....customers wont touch a Safire.

That wasn't the end of the story, Bajaj found new gusto after the tremendous success of the Pulsar twins. The company literally had a turn around and the bikes were a huge sales success.

Bajaj gave it another shot, it had a massive investment it needed to recuperate. The scooter was relaunched without the fancy gearbox and now a Dtsi engine, Safire became Kristal. A decent product and excellent value. But folk avoided it like the bebonic plague, a year later it was withdrawn as well. The damage the Safire did was virtually in-repairable!

I think Bajaj lost all confidence after that, I don't believe the gibberish they say when asked the question 'why not scooters?' BMW makes scooters, so does all the Japanese majors. Plus Bajaj is no premium mantle-piece, they make auto rickshaws and even had a shot at their version of a 'cheap' car!

It's sad because I think there are many ways Bajaj can serve the clientele rather than taking Honda head on. More powerful scooters, a hugely under-served segment, or even auto geared motorcycles. Perhaps for them the easiest solution is to ignore and forget.