[nasirkaka]

Zigwheels claims this is not a GS, and hard to recommend

I wonder if the reviewer is actually ridden other 'GS'.

India is a price sensitive & value for money market and any product not adhering to that is written off, be it 310gs or be it the legendary Yamaha RD 350. (not trying to compare them but only their fate)

The truth is that 310 GS is very much in sync with the GS DNA. GS is a way of life and the baby GS fits pretty well. GS was never about being cost effective be is 1200, 850, 750 and 310 follows the suit. GS is never been about BHP figures, but more about torquey nature. The reviewer says there bike does not have low-end torque. "low end torque" is a misunderstood terms and people perceive this in their own way. Baby Gs can very well chug along at 16kmph in 2nd gear which to me is good low end torque. The versys 650 feels lugging doing the same. Bike stalling, if one is not careful with clutch release, is not result of lack of low end torque. GS is about suspension/comfort. Be it the telelever on papa gs or the long travel USDs on baby gs, they are both very comfortable. On my daily rides on bad broken Bangalore roads, the baby GS feels much more comfortable and plush than my versys 650 which boasts of adjustable shocks. Now that is saying a lot. GS is also about vibes. The papa gs generates good amount of vibes from the boxers and baby GS follows the same with single pot mill. (not that i like it, but very GS). Even the engine feel of the papa gs is not very refined like for eg, multistrada, and so it is on the 310. GS is about go anywhere, rough&tough built and 310gs is a very solid bike. In the 7K kms i have done so far, there is not been a single rattle from anywhere. Bike feels as solid as on the day of delivery. Reviewer from Zigwheels is trying to provide long terms review of the 310 gs, but i really wonder how much time he is really spent on the bike. Only if he did some research on international forums, where most of the big GS owners have the baby GS as their 2nd bike and are perfectly satisfied with the GS tag it holds.

I am not trying to say the bike is good or bad, all i am trying to say is that reviews like the ones from Zigwheels are plain-jane and generic in nature where value for money is of prime importance, and secondly they take the bike everywhere including city, highway, mountains, offroad, track, cornering, etc and make comments like the bike does not corner well as it has 19" front wheel and 200mm of suspension travel. Of-course it wont.


GS is not a mass bike not does it intend to be. Its not the best bike nor the worst bike. Its a purpose built lifestyle bike and has its positives and negatives like any other product. A Himalayan customer will not consider GS for GS is not at all value for money and vice versa for GS customer. GS owners are very happy with the bike in general, except for dealer experience which is been below average and major pain point. To add to that negativity, some of the bikes are having alternator/battery issue as well. The other issues/niggles being excessive vibes, shaky headlight, stalling due to sensitive clutch etc.

To summarize, this is not a mass market bike, and has its share of teething issues, but it is definitely aligned with the GS tag.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

...

To summarize, this is not a mass market bike, and has its share of teething issues, but it is definitely aligned with the GS tag.

It is well known that the BMW 310 twins were designed specifically to suit the licensing regulations in the EU, namely the A2 category. This is the same category in which we can find the KTM Duke 390, the Royal Enfield 650 twins, the Benelli 302, etc. In the EU market, these bike are all in the lower middle segment - above 125 cc bikes but below 600 cc non-A2 compliant bikes. So in reality the 310 twins are mass market bikes, designed and built to a cost. It's just in India that BMW, in their infinite wisdom, have priced them so high. It is as though they are not interested in the Indian market.

As nice as the G310GS may be, the price simply cannot be ignored. You seem to be in the fortunate position of being able to afford not one, but two expensive bikes. Everyone else will also look at what other bikes offer and definitely compare what they can expect for their money.

[nasirkaka]

It is well known that the BMW 310 twins were designed specifically to suit the licensing regulations in the EU, namely the A2 category. This is the same category in which we can find the KTM Duke 390, the Royal Enfield 650 twins, the Benelli 302, etc. In the EU market, these bike are all in the lower middle segment - above 125 cc bikes but below 600 cc non-A2 compliant bikes. So in reality the 310 twins are mass market bikes, designed and built to a cost. It's just in India that BMW, in their infinite wisdom, have priced them so high. It is as though they are not interested in the Indian market.

It is also well known that the second and third world countries were equally important if not more, potential target market for the bikes you mention and the parents have themselves confirmed this time and again. Dukes and Himalayan sell more in India then Europe. The state of tune may be tweaked for some to align with European licensing regulations.

It is also well known that corollas and camrys which could be status symbol for an upper/middle class Indian could be Indica's of Europe. So yes, in our Indian context, BMW g310gs is still not a mass market bike but more of an inspiration. It is also a known that 310GS is overpriced, and that would be the biggest reason for its poor sales and eventual downfall. BMW missed a trick in judging the gap between "premium" and 'Out of reach", and priced it so high that most aspiring for it would eventually giveup. The service and spares not cheap either. A nice and decent bike, most likely killed, because of wrong pricing.

As nice as the G310GS may be, the price simply cannot be ignored. You seem to be in the fortunate position of being able to afford not one, but two expensive bikes. Everyone else will also look at what other bikes offer and definitely compare what they can expect for their money.

Not at all. I like riding bikes hence my spends are budgeted & channel towards it. My only car is 2007 alto,and that would give an idea of where i am coming from, financially. My versys is already up for sale, its difficult to maintain two expensive bikes as you put it. I opted for BMW 310Gs inspite of it being priced high for the fact that versys was heavy and big for my requirement, and there isn't much options out there if one is looking at at light weight and comfortable adv touring bike. Even after 3 test rides, Himalayan did not impress me. So settled for the GS and am pretty happy with it so far barring some concerns raised earlier.

I am writing this as i see a lot of negativity being spread against a relatively good bike which is 310Gs, mainly by our hungry auto journalists. The company never claimed that the bike was meant for 'Everyone' in a market like ours. There are buyers for iphone and there are buyers for Mi and they eventually settle for what works for them, be it price, feature, look, brand etc.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

It is also well known that the second and third world countries were equally important if not more, potential target market for the bikes you mention

BMW competes with these very third world lowlifes (Dukes and Himalayan) across the same markets. You may even want to compare prices to see the "level" at which these are pegged by the respective manufacturers. The Europeans are around $5500 and Himalayan IIRC is considerably cheaper

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

It is also well known that corollas and camrys which could be status symbol for an upper/middle class Indian could be Indica's of Europe. So yes, in our Indian context...

Corollas, Camry, Iphone ... What does it have to do with motorcycles? And especially the Iphone example is simply used too loosely. While I am no cellphone aficionado (Actually abhor these things), I can tell you that the reason my company issued me an Iphone and not a cheap Andriod is the security iOS offers. Not because my company wants any bragging rights for what phones we carry. And no, just coz BMW has priced something insanely, doesn't make it Corolla or CAmry or whatever and the rest of the competition Indicas

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

It is also a known that 310GS is overpriced, and that would be the biggest reason for its poor sales and eventual downfall. BMW missed a trick in judging the gap between "premium" and 'Out of reach", and priced it so high that most aspiring for it would eventually giveup. The service and spares not cheap either

Agreed

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

A nice and decent bike, most likely killed, because of wrong pricing.

How is it nice when you yourself have mentioned it being overpriced and ASS is atrocious to say the least?

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

BMW g310gs is still not a mass market bike but more of an inspiration

If Hero prices their Splendors equaling to (say) Pulsar NS 200, does it automatically move to a higher rung of bikes? That's exactly what BMW have done. A bike that barely nudges past a Duke 200 in terms of performance is priced 3 times the former. And that's why its premium and we must all "aspire" to purchase overpriced crap coz the sticker is so shiny?

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

I am writing this as i see a lot of negativity being spread against a relatively good bike which is 310Gs, mainly by our hungry auto journalists

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't. When you see reviews from journos endlessly praising a bike - Its a paid review. When they point out the flaws and give a clear and honest POV, they are spreading negativity!

On a side note:

Let me ask you, how much suspension do you think you can buy with 1 lakh or so rupees; which happens to be the price difference between the Duke and the GS? I assure you, you can get Top Shelf fully customizable set up along with ergo mods. And you are in Bangy, right? You have such a rich off roading and professional MX / rallying scene in Bangalore and (I say this from personal experience) very VERY talented garages / mechs (Along with that beautiful weather all year round) who would set your bike up just the way you wanted, while still probably coming under the sticker price for the GS. Oh, and this will be a bike that will eat at least 20 GS' for breakfast and then some

Your choice is your choice but why get defensive about it? What's so great about a bike that barely edges out motorcycles that cost a third, suspension that eats up all the travel if you brake hard on the road, has next to no service network, Costs one arm to buy and 2 legs to service; that too after a decade's wait for spare parts? Where's the upside... Except of course - that coveted Sticker

[nasirkaka]

@Urban_Nomad:

We have all gone through different level of mods trying to make our dukes and bullets and yamahas more suitable for riding in varied Indian conditions which typically demands a rugged and comfortable bike which can haul some load. Making big ticket mods like changing suspension etc is not easy. About 3 yrs back, was in discussion with indimotard on making major changes to my ktm duke 390 and the cost was coming to north of 2.2L at that time.

What i am trying to say is that yes, we all agree that the 310gs is an overpriced bike, but once we overcome the price factor, its a good all rounder bike. A lot of us here on this thread itself were all for the bike before the 'price launch' but just beating a decent product on price is a little harsh which seems to be the norm these days. This i guess can only be experienced rather explained, as i do get that in trying to explain the same, one comes across as a fan boy. Yes, i have a soft corner for this bike and for a reason that is happiness. I have overcome the cost factor in mind, and been enjoy the bike everyday and would say that this bike is given more happiness in last 5 months then the versys in last 3 years. You asked whats great about this bike, i would say precisely this. I have had my fair share of rides on various bikes but this one makes a connection which is difficult to explain.

[rkavthekar]

I agree with @Nasirkaka. I got my GS just over a month back and I use it for daily commute of 45+ kms city traffic. The commute has been a breeze and I am enjoying the same. I hardly care about a pot hole or a speed breaker as going over is a breeze. My earlier ride was Thunderbird and compared to same, this one is lighter, has more power and overtaking is a easier. It meets almost all my requirements from a bike for city conditions. I have also taken in on 3, 300+ kms weekend rides with friends. I have managed over 118 kmph speed without any issue. Since we were not drag racing, coming ahead of someone was never a question. It was very comfortable to ride 110+ kmph speed over a sustained time / distance without fatique. Seat has been comfy as it had been on my Thunderbird. I did not push my bike beyond 118 as I did not want to cross 7K on the rpm meter during its running in phase. With that experience, I can safely say, it go easily go beyond that speed too.

My experience with BMW service was good. No issues in getting an appointment. Comfortable lounge to seat, sipping brewed coffee, while your bike is getting serviced. You can also stand with the mechanic while the work is being done on the bike and get your queries answered. No shooing away from the service bay.

Of course, at this point of time, no spares were required apart from Oil and Oil filter, so that aspect needs to be seen.

As @Nasirkaka has said, if you overcome the price aspect of the bike, it has been most satisfying experience of owing this bike, meeting my all requirements of it in City conditions and Weekend rides. I am also happy to the fact that bike grabs a lot of attention on the road and atleast for now a somewhat of Exclusivity.

But, as they say.... To each his own! Opinions will always vary from person to person.

take care and ride safely
Rajesh

[am1m]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

I have overcome the cost factor in mind, and been enjoy the bike everyday and would say that this bike is given more happiness in last 5 months then the versys in last 3 years.

Thank you, this is exactly the sort of invaluable, real-world experience that I log in to TBhp for. All too often we end up making comparisons without enough experience with one or even either of the vehicles. Very often I see comparisons being made based purely on specs. So opinions from people with a good number of km on both vehicles is very helpful.

[Red Liner]

Check this out:

https://youtu.be/Hrl_qQ1nNT0

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Another review, this time from Motorbeam -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ybUrMB7dPM

Looks like BMW is giving out the bikes to media houses once again, from last month.

[Madhu_Bengaluru]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

I have overcome the cost factor in mind, and been enjoy the bike everyday and would say that this bike is given more happiness in last 5 months than the Versys in last 3 years.

@Nasirkaka, your above remark caught my attention. I use a honda Unicorn (11 years old) for my office commute and this bike has made me a fan of Japanese reliability and refinement. I now want a bike for long drives and Versys has always been at the back of my mind. At the same time I now look at bikes like 310GS and Duke 390 adventure (expected this year) which are light and more affordable. As you has experienced both Versys and GS310, you are the right person to comment on which of these are more suitable for long drives or touring? Is Versys a overkill?

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by Madhu_Bengaluru

@Nasirkaka, your above remark caught my attention. I use a honda Unicorn (11 years old) for my office commute and this bike has made me a fan of Japanese reliability and refinement. I now want a bike for long drives and Versys has always been at the back of my mind. At the same time I now look at bikes like 310GS and Duke 390 adventure (expected this year) which are light and more affordable. As you has experienced both Versys and GS310, you are the right person to comment on which of these are more suitable for long drives or touring? Is Versys a overkill?

In opinion of a few folks on the forum - Bajaj CT100 or Honda Navi are most suited for touring and everything else is a overkill.

The majority though will tell you that Versys 650 is one of the best VFM touring machines you can buy right now if you want to stick to paved roads.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Madhu_Bengaluru

I use a honda Unicorn (11 years old) for my office commute and this bike has made me a fan of Japanese reliability and refinement.

Please do share how many km's you've covered in the 11 years of ownership. Would give the others an idea of your ownership pattern and suggest accordingly.

Different motorcycles have different maintenance intervals and costs as such, hence its a tricky affair finding a near perfect match based on usage.

[Madhu_Bengaluru]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

The majority though will tell you that Versys 650 is one of the best VFM touring machines you can buy right now if you want to stick to paved roads.

No doubt about the capability, reliability, vfm of Versys, therefore the soft corner. I am more than happy about the offroad experience our bangalore paved roads offer, don't need more

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Please do share how many km's you've covered in the 11 years of ownership. Would give the others an idea of your ownership pattern and suggest accordingly.

80K in 7 years (4yrs was out of the country). I am above 6 ft, so no concerns with height of the bike and not discomfortable with heavy bikes. I am hands-on, do basic maintenance of bike myself. It's the new range of beginner bikes like KTM 390 adv which has started to look like an interesting proposition.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Madhu_Bengaluru

80K in 7 years (4yrs was out of the country). I am above 6 ft, so no concerns with height of the bike and not discomfortable with heavy bikes. I am hands-on, do basic maintenance of bike myself. It's the new range of beginner bikes like KTM 390 adv which has started to look like an interesting proposition.

That sums to a decent 10k+ km's per annum and since you have a liking for the Kawasaki's and are a hands-on kinda guy this thread is a must read:

Something Mean Something Green: My Kawasaki Ninja 650

Shiv's ownership log of his Ninja 650 gives you a fair idea of maintaining a premium segment motorcycle economically by means of sourcing alternate components, consumables, staying clear of the SVC and what not, it's a really wonderful read even though at times he does go overboard with pampering the motorcycle.

Or if you're not as confident about working on an expensive machine then do go through our very own maintenance thread;

Servicing Costs of Superbikes / Sportsbikes in India

Though from a DIY'ers depth of information perspective it isn't much value due to ownership preferences strictly leaning towards computing ownership costs by calculating number of services per annum, service interval etc, it still does give you a fair idea of what servicing at the ASC would be like.

As for the KTM, let me be blunt here, the motorcycle you're used to owning i.e the Unicorn though a no-frills motorcycle for novelty users, is a PITA for those who clock higher mileage due to a few hereditary Honda traits that are common with motors designed in a particular era, the Karizma included, spare pricing and availability doesn't help as well.

But when it comes to machines like the Pulsar's, RTR's, Duke's etc. the tables turn, the higher mileage users are fan's due to economic spare pricing and convenient spare availability and more bang for the buck, but at the same time the novelty riders would start complaining due to inconveniences such as oil drops, gasket leaks, panel creaks, lack of refinement, engine heat, and the works!, which as far as the high mileage user cares is not a reason to fret about until warranted.

So I'd suggest you get in touch with KTM owners who've clocked considerable(at the least north of 50k) mileage on their machines before investing in one, though as you've mentioned the intent to clock higher odo reads which coupled with your hands-on nature does make me believe that the KTM would be an ideal fit, provided you're open minded about the 'inconveniences' that are part of the package.

Keep us posted on what you decide to opt for.

Cheers and Ride Safe,
A.P.

[nasirkaka]

Originally Posted by Madhu_Bengaluru

@Nasirkaka, your above remark caught my attention. I use a honda Unicorn (11 years old) for my office commute and this bike has made me a fan of Japanese reliability and refinement. I now want a bike for long drives and Versys has always been at the back of my mind. At the same time I now look at bikes like 310GS and Duke 390 adventure (expected this year) which are light and more affordable. As you has experienced both Versys and GS310, you are the right person to comment on which of these are more suitable for long drives or touring? Is Versys a overkill?

Just saw this post, Madhu.

Like a few here have already shared their thoughts, choosing a bike depends on so many different factors for any given individual and if others were asked to suggest, there is bound to be a lot of difference of opinions. Naturally.

Personally, i am not a big fan of touring on a small capacity bike like under 150cc. I started with small rides on my splendor and bajaj pulsar 150 and would definitely not go back to them for tours. A lot of this is already been discussed in "which Bike" thread.
ok, for choosing a new bike, one of the most important factors here is how deep is your pocket. If its deep enough, a lot of factors like spares, maintenance, service cost etc does not matter much. if its deep enough, most likely you may also have a second bike, just in case one is out of order for the time.

Just to reiterate, you already have a unicorn. Next group of bikes would be 350 to 500cc and under 5L, where you have himalayan, dominars, bullets, mojos, g310gs, elusive 390 adv and the likes. Next would be your 600to 800cc or around 9L budget where the likes of versys, vstorm, swm, benallis, entry level Harley, triumphs, etc figure in. Next is 800 to 1200cc or upwards of 10L where u have different types of tigers, africa twin, V1k, ducatis, papa Gs, and so many others in various trims. So It would be important to first figure out which range of bike you would be interested in based on your budget, riding requirements etc. For example, if i had budget, i would have gone for a tiger or a GS1200, settles for versys as that was the only one falling within budget. So once you have decided which bracket of bike you want, things become easier and more focused.

As for my experience wirh versys and Gs310, for long rides where one would want to maintain good average speeds, ofcourse versys 650 is one of the main contenders. Equation slightly changes if you want to multi-use that bike for highway and city commuting as well, as its not really suited for our Bangalore kind of traffic. This is where the bike did not fit in my scheme of things, creating a strong requirement for a light weight comfortable bike which eventually turned into the 310Gs. The GS does most of what Versys does and somethings even better, except when it comes to speed, acceleration, vibrations, and braking. You can very well tour on it also, just that u will reach your destination an hour late, if its 500kms away. These sub 500cc bikes make a strong case for a multi-role of touring and city as well, provided you are willing to compromise a bit on factors like acceleration, average speed, safety, ergonomics etc. As you are upgrading from a 150cc and if you have any sort of budget constrains, it would make sense to look at sub 500cc segment where bikes like himalayan, 310GS, dominar, even versys 300X, makes sense. 390adv would be nice but for a while its been sleeping again.

the tables turn, the higher mileage users are fan's due to economic spare pricing and convenient spare availability and more bang for the buck, but at the same time the novelty riders would start complaining due to inconveniences such as oil drops, gasket leaks, panel creaks, lack of refinement, engine heat, and the works!, which as far as the high mileage user cares is not a reason to fret about until warranted.

Ashwim Sir, i think its unfair to classify them based on 'higher mileage users' and 'novelty users'? The difference line there is not as stark. We have 130 plus riders in Bangalore versys group and most of them have come from bullets, dukes, CBRs and and CBZs. Its been just about 3 yrs since versys was launched in India, and one guy is clocked 80k kms, a few closing on 70k kms. There are many who have done 50K plus kms. Even my versys odo reads 33k kms where i have hardly used it for last 1.5 years. I guess the itch to upgrade is natural and we keep moving from one bike to another, mainly based on financial strength, and not necessarily arising out petty issues with previous bike. At times we realize we have overshot and have to come back too. Like my versys is up for sale after i downgraded to 310.