[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by praful

And we are yet to get the refreshed CBR250 models !!

Sigh!! From a strategy perspective, Honda seems to going more for a numbers game. But they should also look at the a niche segment which will help push numbers further.

On a more 'on topic' note, it is a little sad to see Honda refresh the legend, replacing the I-4 with a parallel twin.

My strategy suggestion to Honda -

Ditch the CBR150R and continue selling the CBR250R in the same guise, focusing on the target audience who buy the R15, Duke/RC 200, RS 200 . Of course, the 250R will be more expensive than the others but a slight price reduction will result in a short term loss but a long term gain.

Get the 250RR to India and let it battle with the RC390, Ninja 300 and the R3. As I see it, this is the way to go for Honda to rake in the moolah from this segment. I'll be really really surprised if Honda persists with the 250R to take on the performance trio.
On the other hand, the legend of the 250RR is laid to rest with the employment of a twin rather than an I-4 though cost wise, it makes sense.

[praful]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

My strategy suggestion to Honda -

I don't think it makes sense to have both the R and RR co-exist, both products will kill each other, even though the target population is different.

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by praful

I don't think it makes sense to have both the R and RR co-exist, both products will kill each other, even though the target population is different.

Well, both belong to different segments and different target customers. One produces 25 bhp and costs INR 1.7L (non ABS) and the other will produce in excess of 35 bhp and can be in the >INR 3L price bracket. Honda has trained personnel to work on the 650F who can be utilized to work on the 250RR. I don't know how you can't see it but for me, this has to be way forward for Honda. It's been centuries since we've waited for the CBR250R facelift, CBR300 and the CBR500! If Honda is happy milking the cow by merely applying 'go faster' decals then, well, .

Besides, Bajaj has shown us time and again that cannibalization works wonders for the manufacturer! As long as people are buying Pulsars/KTMs/Kawasaki, they are buying within the brand and this keeps Bajaj happy.

[PrasannaDhana]

Honda India is content with its volume products such as activa, shine, unicorn 150(yes, the old one, it still sells like hot cakes) and dream yuga.

They did not even care bringing in the new CBR250R/150R. Will they bring the CBR250RR? Yes, in 2025 maybe.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by Porschefire

Well, both belong to different segments and different target customers.

One produces 25 bhp and costs INR 1.7L (non ABS) and the other will produce in excess of 35 bhp and can be in the >INR 3L price bracket.

Honda had made a brave move by Manufacturing the CBR250R in India (only country after Thailand to do so, when it was launched).. therefore could price at below 2 lakhs.

But sadly for HMSI that did not turn into a sales success (as it would have hoped).. as a result I presume any executive at Honda who might suggest at getting another 250-500 cc model in the near/mid/maybe long (as well) term, might find it rather difficult to explain the CBR250R fiasco.

Manufacturing any model involves huge expenses and if it doesn't click, then the loss is huge.

[sai_ace]

Surprisingly, Nov-15 to March-16, 998 CBR250r has been sold vs 706 of HH Karizma. Maybe there still is some hope of seeing the new cbr250 ?

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by payeng

Honda had made a brave move by Manufacturing the CBR250R in India (only country after Thailand to do so, when it was launched).. therefore could price at below 2 lakhs.

But sadly for HMSI that did not turn into a sales success (as it would have hoped).. as a result I presume any executive at Honda who might suggest at getting another 250-500 cc model in the near/mid/maybe long (as well) term, might find it rather difficult to explain the CBR250R fiasco.

Manufacturing any model involves huge expenses and if it doesn't click, then the loss is huge.

I guess my point is not coming across correctly. CBR250R was a revelation of a bike when it was launched. In itself it was good bike-well priced, comfortable, adequate power, good tourer and so on. But the fact that they bought it out to compete against the Ninja 250R put it in the wrong foot right from the start. Ninja 250R was everything the CBR was but better. The game has since moved on but Honda is still stuck with this knife in a gun fight. RC, N300 and R3 are superior in every aspect and sticking with the 250R would be foolishness when this segment is to grow in the coming years. 250RR is the answer and they have to get it to India.

[createrkid]

Honda purists must be having a stroke right about now. Honda could have changed the CBR250RR name at least. If anybody remembers, the 250RR used to exist between 1990-1999 under a very different and I mean very different configuration. Have a look.

Configuration
Liquid-cooled 4-stroke 16-valve DOHC in-line 4 cylinder

Power
Horsepower: 45 hp (33.6 kW) @ 15000 rpm
Maximum Torque: 21.5 Nm (15.6 ft. lbs) @ 12000 rpm

Performance
Top Speed: ~180kph(limited) , ~200kph(unrstricted)
0-100kph (0-60mph): ~5 Seconds

Transmission
6-speed Gear Ratios: 1st 2.733 2nd 2.000 3th 1.590 4th 1.333 5th 1.153 6th 1.035
Primary Drive Ratio: 2.966
Bore & Stroke 48.5 x 33.8

Ignition
Electronic

Fuel Capacity
13 Litres
1.6 Litre reserve

Compression Ratio
11.5:1

Clutch
Wet multiple plate coil springs

Tires
Front: 110/70-17
Rear: 140/70-17

Dimensions
Overall - Length: 1975 mm (77.8 inches)
Overall - Width: 675 mm (26.6 inches)
Overall - Height: 1080 mm (42.5 inches)
Seat Height: 725 mm (28.5 inches)
Wheelbase 1345 mm (53 inches)
Ground clearance 130 mm (5.1 inches)
Fuel Capacity: 13 l (3.4 Gal)
Dry Weight (without fluids): 142 kg (313.1 pounds)

Brakes
Front: dual 275 mm discs with 2-piston calipers Rear: single 220 mm disc with 1-piston calipers



Imagine a 250cc inline-4 revving to 20000RPM! Yes, it did that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXt7fQsDsk8

[Nithesh_M]

Originally Posted by payeng

But sadly for HMSI that did not turn into a sales success (as it would have hoped)..
.

That part is incorrect. Between 2011-2013(first 2 years since launch) they had a monthly average sales of 3000 units. After 2013 their sales tapered down losing 500-1000 units a year on average for the following consecutive years. There isn't another vehicle launched above the 250cc segment to this day that has attained that monthly sales individually. The nearest premium bike was the R15 at that time.

Today they manufacture in very small numbers befitting their order list. No more inventory at dealership level collecting dust.

Their 150R production has also been this way from the very beginning. Their target was to sell 200 units(fixed) a month. Look at their engine import list from the months before the launch to this very day.

As for them not launching 250RR because of 250R's sales being low today, well that would be hokum. They still went ahead and launched the 650F at 7.3 lakhs and that too is averaging 20-30 units a month consistent with their import data of 20 units.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

That part is incorrect. Between 2011-2013(first 2 years since launch) they had a monthly average sales of 3000 units. After 2013 their sales tapered down losing 500-1000 units a year on average for the following consecutive years.

Glorious past eh? How does the sales graph now look? Whatever might have been the performance for the first 2 years.. what matters is how is the current demand.

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

There isn't another vehicle launched above the 250cc segment to this day that has attained that monthly sales individually. The nearest premium bike was the R15 at that time.

The Current Royal Enfield Thunderbirds were launched after the CBR 150/250 models (and has a sales graph with a positive gradient)


Now dont state that RE's belong to a different Class. If they are priced at the same ball park, then the customer base who can buy them is common.

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

Today they manufacture in very small numbers befitting their order list. No more inventory at dealership level collecting dust.

As if that was the initial plan.. I.e to manufacture in limited numbers.

[thatsdileep]

New Honda CBR250RR has been unveiled in Indonesia. It looks much better compared to the existing CBR250R model. It follows the RR design styling and it is lot more edgier and futuristic. I suspect this might the new design language for the next versions of the RR series.







Here is the video:

https://youtu.be/bSLpEoGMKXs

Source: http://www.motoroids.com/news/all-ne...-around-video/

[CGB]

Honda is owning a excellent portfolio of bikes in the world other than india. They should've made some changes to the aging CBR twins, but ended up in stickering job! I would say, the bike fate is due to Honda itself.

Yamaha and Honda despite having excellent bikes in their stable, Haven't bothered much about india to bring them here. Eg: CBR500, R6, FZ6R.

Provided with the new 250RR, if they price is right, it's sure that they make the cash registers ringing.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by payeng

Glorious past eh? How does the sales graph now look? Whatever might have been the performance for the first 2 years.. what matters is how is the current demand.

Because KTM ate that market up with the 200/390. If they don't respond by reducing prices drastically, then even that demand will disappear.

What a shame. The bike is so nice and capable.

- a Nov 2015 purchaser :|

[theredliner]

Here are the official specifications:

DIMENSIONS:

Length x Width x Height
2.060 x 724 x 1.098 mm

Wheel Base
1.389 mm

Ground Clearance
145 mm

Seat Height
790 mm

Fuel Tank Capacity
14.5 liter


ENGINE:

Engine Type
4-Stroke, 8-Valve, Parallel Twin Cylinder

Displacement
249.7 cc

Cooling System
Liquid Cooled With Auto Electric Fan

Fuel Supply System
PGM-FI

Throttle System
Throttle-By-Wire System with Accelerator Position Sensor

Bore x Stroke
62.0 x 41.4 mm

Compression Ratio
11.5 : 1

Transmission Manual
Manual, 6 Speed

Gear Shift Pattern
1-N-2-3-4-5-6

Starting System
Electric Starter

Clutch System
Multiplate Wet Clutch with Coil Spring

Lubricant Type
Wet (Pressing and Spray)

Oil Capacity
1.9 L (Exchange)


FRAME:

Frame Type
Truss Frame

Front Tire Size
110/70 – 17 54S (Tubeless)

Rear Tire Size
140/70 – 17 66S (Tubeless)

Front Brake Type
Hydraulic Disc,Dual Piston (STD Type & ABS Type)

Rear Brake Type
Hydraulic Disc, Single Piston (STD Type & ABS Type)

Front Suspension
Inverted Telescopic Front Suspension

Rear Suspension
Aluminum Swing Arm (5 Adjustable Mono Suspension with Pro-Link System)


ELECTRICAL:

Frame Type
Full Transisterized

Battery
MF 12V - 7Ah

Spark Plug Type
NGK SILMAR8C-9 (Iridium Spark Plug)


The output of the engine is said to be 38 HP of peak power at over 12000 RPM and 23 Nm of peak torque.
Some videos show the speedo displaying 'Sport+'. It will most likely come with riding modes (First in segment).
Has longer wheelbase and shorter seat height compared to RC 390. Eagerly waiting for first ride impressions.

The bike looks very good in production form. Would love to see this launch in India (300RR/350RR). Even though I won't be buying one since I already have the RC 390, it would be good to have a Japanese option in the entry level supersport category.

Two areas where it would have an advantage would be in terms of higher revving engine (14000 RPM redline vs 10500 RPM in RC 390), a bigger fuel tank(14.5l - much needed over RC's 9.5l) and throttle by wire (found only in Euro spec RC).

Would love to own both (mainly for the contrasting engine characteristics) if I had the Gandhis - I'd expect the CBR to be priced well over 5L OTR if at all it is launched here (CKD route).

[rahul4321]

What an irony. Hero is trying its best to emulate Honda and bring out new technology in their motorcycles and Honda is trying to emulate Hero and come out with more sticker jobs for its Activa, Shine, Unicorn and CBR 250. I wish they would get this bike here