[joslicx]

Originally Posted by ksameer1234

Why charge only once a week? If power cable is available at the parking spot, I'll rather prefer to plug in into the charger every evening after returning from work. !

Everyday charging is an unnecessary hassle. We don't go to the petrol bunk everyday to get the tank filled. Also batteries start losing charge after a certain number of charge cycles. The lesser the need to charge the better I think. I may be wrong though.

One question I had with these electric vehicles is how do people who live in apartments manage charging? It may not be possible to have a charging point at your car parking space. Is it possible to remove the battery from the vehicle, take it home and charge it there?

[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Everyday charging is an unnecessary hassle. We don't go to the petrol bunk everyday to get the tank filled. Also batteries start losing charge after a certain number of charge cycles. The lesser the need to charge the better I think. I may be wrong though.

But one doesn't have to go to a dedicated place for charging I believe. Charging vehicles would eventually become as much a routine as plugging in mobile phones every evening. Nobody expects a smartphone battery to last more than a day today. As for charging cycles, my understanding is that deep discharge also causes harm and it is recommended to keep the charge level healthy.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Agree on the range part.
Is a city commuter and most prospective customers would look at it to use it for daily office commute. I would like one charge to last me a week of use, which means around 100km, or 20km daily ride on average. Let's have 20-25% of buffer and we get range of about 125KM which would make this scooter a real attractive proposition.

Originally Posted by joslicx

Everyday charging is an unnecessary hassle. We don't go to the petrol bunk everyday to get the tank filled. Also batteries start losing charge after a certain number of charge cycles. The lesser the need to charge the better I think. I may be wrong though.

One question I had with these electric vehicles is how do people who live in apartments manage charging? It may not be possible to have a charging point at your car parking space. Is it possible to remove the battery from the vehicle, take it home and charge it there?

That's expecting too much out of an electric city commuter scooter. You may not take your scooter to a petrol bunk daily, but with this, you never need to take it anywhere ever!
You shouldn't be comparing 1-1 with a petrol scooter.

I booked a 450 because the daily usage will be 40Kms during weekdays and one of the days , it may go up to 60Kms. I'll charge it daily
If you have a 20Km ride daily and this scooter has a 60Kms range, charge it once in 3 days. As simple as that.
How difficult is it to plug your scooter to a socket installed in your parking slot! It has all the tech to cutoff after full charge. Just like your smartphone.

People in Apartment owners get sockets installed in their parking slot connecting their meters or from inside their homes with either a box+lock or a switch inside the home.
Any neighborhood electrician will do this job. It may cost a couple of thousands if not more.

If you saw the video posted in the previous pages, Ather co-founder Tarun talks that they actually started thinking about swap-able battery pack. But that has many issues.
Removable battery for charging will come in future.
Second option is wireless charging. I've been using a phone with wireless charger for almost 4 years now and I can vouch for the ease associated with it. on the same lines imagine, you park the car and it is charging wireless!
Another option is the power bank like concept. But these are for future.
But for now, for a city commuter scooter, this is enough range IMO. Some electric cars don't have the range you are expecting out of this scooter.
Also remember, the grid will only grow, be it from Ather or someone else. When you are shopping in a mall, when you are at work, when you are at the gym, when you are at a restaurant, your vehicle is recharged.

Also One more important point, higher range is heavier vehicle!

Take a look at this range comparison of EVs sold in the US
https://www.fleetcarma.com/2018-elec...ge-comparison/

[farhadtarapore]

There also needs to be a feature that if I install a charging point for ME at my apartment complex, it should be secure. Someone else shouldn't be able to use it! Major problem with anything in India is that people find innovative ways to steal it.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

How difficult is it to plug your scooter to a socket installed in your parking slot!

Sad reality is that many apartments are not EV friendly - like mine, even though its a new one constructed two years back only. Neither the builder has left any provision for charging electric vehicles in the basement, nor the association is yet interested in formulating any rules for the same.

So - while the scooter seems an excellent replacement for my 6 year old Meastro, it just isn't feasible at this point to even consider a purchase.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Sad reality is that many apartments are not EV friendly - like mine, even though its a new one constructed two years back only. Neither the builder has left any provision for charging electric vehicles in the basement, nor the association is yet interested in formulating any rules for the same.

So - while the scooter seems an excellent replacement for my 6 year old Meastro, it just isn't feasible at this point to even consider a purchase.

Another issue with apartments is for those of us living on rent. The owner or the society may not be amenable to modifications for the charging infrastructure. It was from that perspective I was interested in knowing if the battery could be taken out and charged inside the home. It might be a better solution than having a charging point in the parking. Safety and security would be issues in the parking area.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by farhadtarapore

There also needs to be a feature that if I install a charging point for ME at my apartment complex, it should be secure. Someone else shouldn't be able to use it! Major problem with anything in India is that people find innovative ways to steal it.

As I wrote before you could have a box for the socket with lock. Or you could have a switch inside your home for that.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Sad reality is that many apartments are not EV friendly - like mine, even though its a new one constructed two years back only. Neither the builder has left any provision for charging electric vehicles in the basement, nor the association is yet interested in formulating any rules for the same.

There was no provision in our Apartment nor are there any EV rules. But I've seen EV owners drawing a line from their own meters. I don't think any Association will object to that. Will try to take pictures of how EV owners have made arrangements. There are atleast 3 EVs in our apartment that I've seen and all 3 have different arrangements

Originally Posted by joslicx

Another issue with apartments is for those of us living on rent. The owner or the society may not be amenable to modifications for the charging infrastructure. It was from that perspective I was interested in knowing if the battery could be taken out and charged inside the home. It might be a better solution than having a charging point in the parking. Safety and security would be issues in the parking area.

for rented homes, I understand this is a deterrent. I've seen a friend who carries a long extention box in his Reva and he charges it in his relatives house, friends house or any other known place.

I'm looking forward to the day when we get portable solar chargers. That should solve some issues

[Bhatman510]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Everyday charging is an unnecessary hassle. We don't go to the petrol bunk everyday to get the tank filled. Also batteries start losing charge after a certain number of charge cycles. The lesser the need to charge the better I think. I may be wrong though.

Batteries do not lose charge due to charge cycles. They lose charge because people end up draining the pack voltage more than what the BMS (battery mgmt system) can handle. If they try to hook it up to the charger, then the problem is the pack voltage overall is too low and ends up causing the BMS software to loop. Big issue on older EV's when the software/hardware was still ancient from lead acid batteries. Theft is iffy since most EV's have GPS/tracking.

On the issue of charging, the other option is what Tesla and some other companies do here in the US which is only allow the charger to operate/trigger based on the hardware ID of the vehicle (CANBus Handshake). That way you get a secure connection and dont have pilfers stealing connections. Certain cites/counties in CA just passed a bill to make home constructors deploy charging systems/wiring for chargers in homes.

[prasanna_indaje]

Took Ather 450 for a spin yesterday and pre-booked it immediately after test ride.
Entire concept (Vehicle, Experience Center, Service Model etc.) is mind blowing.

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

for rented homes, I understand this is a deterrent. I've seen a friend who carries a long extention box in his Reva and he charges it in his relatives house, friends house or any other known place.

This is exactly my problem. I am in a rented apartment with dedicated parking slot. Will try to get a socket in my parking lot by talking to the owner. If nothing works, will find some way to charge it.

[aim120]

You can always use a reel type extension cord which can come in various length and plug it on the inside of your flat, I don't think the owner will object to it.

[prasanna_indaje]

Originally Posted by aim120

You can always use a reel type extension cord which can come in various length and plug it on the inside of your flat, I don't think the owner will object to it.

Ideally yes. But, in my scenario, I am in 5th floor and the parking is in basement. There is no way to draw a power line from apartment to basement. Drawing power line from electricity meter seems to be the only option.

Ather engineer said yesterday that they are in touch with multiple Apartment owner's Associations regarding installing charging points. This could solve issues for few people. And the practices will trickle down slowly. However, early adopters will have to find workarounds.

For those living in apartments with service / large lifts, they can think of taking scooter home and charge when needed

[jaganm]

I believe they have got the range spot on. In most Indian cities, it is very difficult to do more than 75km, at that point you are probably riding 4-5 hours and are not the target. For most office commuters in Bangalore, the commute is less than 20-25km every day. So, a twice a week charge will work quite well.

I think if you compare the TCO of this scooter, it would present a more competitive picture
- Assume cost of the "fuel" is same, you save on the petrol but use most of that to save on the battery cost
- A hidden factor of 2 wheeler ownership is the service cost. Even your "free" services end up costing a few hundred rupees for oil and consumables. My cost for servicing my Wego (6 years) was almost half as much as my Ecosport. You may save quite a bit as the Ather should not require as frequent servicing due to the lesser complexity
- This should also help the Ather have a longer service lifespan. An average scooter is quite unusable after 6-7 years even with regular servicing. I'm hopeful, the electric scooters should have a useful life of around 10 years

[prasanna_indaje]

Originally Posted by jaganm

A hidden factor of 2 wheeler ownership is the service cost. Even your "free" services end up costing a few hundred rupees for oil and consumables. My cost for servicing my Wego (6 years) was almost half as much as my Ecosport. You may save quite a bit as the Ather should not require as frequent servicing due to the lesser complexity

Spot on. And there will be no visits to overcrowded service centers.
Ather says they will send a technician home, when needed.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by prasanna_indaje

Spot on. And there will be no visits to overcrowded service centers.
Ather says they will send a technician home, when needed.

Oh boy! This for me is a big plus! Though I'm sure that if they do start selling in large volumes, a home visit may not be feasible, still I think the number of things that need to be taken care of in an e-bike service will be fewer than in a ICE-driven bike.

Not having to deal with the crooks at service centers, or having as little as possible to do with them would be awesome!

[ani_meher]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Another issue with apartments is for those of us living on rent. The owner or the society may not be amenable to modifications for the charging infrastructure.

When I was staying on rent and had an electric bike, I had made a really long extension board with thick wire, so that I could charge the bike in parking from my house. This extension board would travel with the bike, so that I could charge it anywhere in emergency.


The risk of getting the charger stolen remained, though.