[Sheel]

Originally Posted by sam_sant2005

Note: Don't go gaga over rear disc brake. Those are for professionals who need precise braking for drifts and all. Normal users dont need disc brake in rear. Rear brake is only for slight balancing. The whole focus should be on front brakes.

Rear brake has many usage, stopping the bike, isn't one them.

While this stands true, have you even been pushed off the road by a HCV and you were on a bike? Or had to go through a off-road trail?

Rear brake comes in handy here but yes, they necessarily not be discs.

[The Great]

Here are my thoughts for you.

IMO if this is your first bike, go for a new instead of a pre-owned. This way you will start loving and caring your baby no matter what model you use. Also you will not have reliability issues since you will be taking care of the bike from day 1, in other words, the love what you will give to your bike, it will return the same to you. (Remember Toruk - Makto relationship from Avatar). And this is in reference to any bike that one maintains lovingly. The same would not hold true in case of a pre-owned bike. No matter how hard you try to maintain that suspicious doubt factor will always be there in the back of your mind and its not a good thing for someone owning a first bike.

Coming to the Models you have preferred :-

Royal Enfield's are undoubtedly legendary, but, in your case this should be your second bike once you start earning yourself. I have owned both the Cast Iron and UCE models and believe me, it requires a lot of affection to handle the tantrums of the bike (a lot more than any other model in discussion). This is good in a way if you are a DIY guy, but then again own it first with your own money and then posses it, not with your parents money. One should definitely own an Enfield once in the whole lifetime.

The most VFM products are Bajaj (220 and 200). They give more bang for your buck and if taken proper care they will also last durably like other bikes. AS 200 is not fuel injected, but it rounds up as a great bike overall.

Yamaha's are great to own (my first bike was a Rx) these are addictive and will last for a lifetime. FI on the FZ is extremely reliable and has proven the long term cost effectiveness. Albeit the bikes are overpriced. But the overall parts are relatively cheap and easier to maintain. This bike checks all your boxes - FI, Reliable, Muscular, Brand, youngster image etc.

Third on the list should definitely be the Suzuki Gixxer.

You are linking Honda Unicorn wrongly bro. You are judging it as a very underrated bike as per your earlier posts. It was supposedly bought to compete with the CBZ and also as a matter of fact, the CBZ was actually a derivation of the CRF150 which is the main base for CBZ and Unicorn, but Unicorn ended up being a plane jane commuter. Do not underestimate the refined engine, it can also be really fun if driven hard. Reconsider Hornet once again if you don't like the Uni.

TVS bikes are reliable for sure. The Apache is great with the ABS (180) and the 160 is a derivative of the yesteryear's hit Fiero.

Karizma's do have a place in the Indian top 5 legendary bikes book - its history now - case closed. Forget owning one now. Same like the Rx 100's of the 90's.

Seeing your earlier posts its apparent that you are getting more and more confused rather than getting sorted. Firstly how long are you gonna keep the bike. If the period is approx 5/8 years then any of the Indian brands will last that much with good care. The reliability will not be of question.

Secondly we will all discuss various things (like i did) and you will also get a gold mine of discussions on all the bikes in India and abroad on our forum. But this will not help your Want vs Need discussion. You will only be much more knowledgeable than before that's it !

There is no such thing as a perfect bike.

Test ride is the key.

Go with the heart, whatever it says buy it. Not because I told you, not because the forum members told you, not because the specifications tell you. Follow only what your heart tells you.

Hope this helps.

[roy_libran]

At this age, don't Underestimate your Machine's ability to get you the desired attention from your opposite Sex. That alone would determine how happy you end up being with your choice. Choose wisely, and definitely NOT the Unicorn, on that count alone.

[revvhed]

What about the CBR150 ? It ticks all the boxes for you. Stylish, fully faired yet pretty comfortable for rider and pillion, Honda reliability and yet fun to ride for a young person. I would've actually suggested the CBR250 but that's way out of your budget.

[swift_guy]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Rear brake has many usage, stopping the bike, isn't one them.

Rear disc faces lesser brake fade, and that is one (or ONLY one) major advantage over drum brakes in daily runs. Skidding on sudden application of brakes, I would say, is just a matter of getting used to and correctly calculating the force required (on the pedal).

Originally Posted by The Great

Here are my thoughts for you.

IMO if this is your first bike, go for a new instead of a pre-owned... ... ...not because the specifications tell you. Follow only what your heart tells you.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for such an informative post. This cleared many of my doubts. FZ and Gixxer are definitely on top of my list. I plan to keep the bike for the next 8 years minimum (around 5 years if I get a used one) and don't know if I should consider Bajaj and TVS also or only Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha. After that I will get a RE or R15 v3 or CBR250R (or v4 or v5 by then ) with my own money (as downpayment ).

Originally Posted by Gansan

I don't think the GS 150R is available any more. Was stopped at least six months back. If still available, please let me know, I will buy one immediately.

GS150R is still present on Suzuki's website, but looks too commuter-ish to me. You can give it a try, old stocks would anyway be available with some discounts.

http://www.suzukimotorcycle.co.in/mo...150Rprice.aspx

Originally Posted by sam_sant2005

Here are my thoughts on your list... ... ...Avenger 220 (old) @ 35-40k - Bajaj bikes engine should be closely checked while buying used ones. Bajaj engines hold good when maintained properly, read ONLY when maintained properly.

Thanks for the informative post. I have an offer of about 50k for 2014 Karizma (old classic design) with 4k kms. Problem is that the owner is not willing to wait for long (till around 15th May when I will go ahead with the deal). Another 2012 Karizma with 22k kms is available for 30k.

A performance oriented bike like 200NS or Duke 200 or R15 does not attract many buyers in the second hand market.

Originally Posted by revvhed

What about the CBR150 ? It ticks all the boxes for you. Stylish, fully faired yet pretty comfortable for rider and pillion, Honda reliability and yet fun to ride for a young person. I would've actually suggested the CBR250 but that's way out of your budget.

CBR150R would still be out of budget. It gets a basic switchgear and not even LED taillight (being expensive than an R15). If I have to anyway spend more than a Lac in this purchase, it would be an R15 v2 eyes closed. It is the perfect bike for me. There is no other bike which matches my requirements completely (reliable, looks, handling, power, features, tech, image, resale value) except budget.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by swift_guy

FZ and Gixxer are definitely on top of my list. I plan to keep the bike for the next 8 years minimum (around 5 years if I get a used one) and don't know if I should consider Bajaj and TVS also or only Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha..

If you plan on buying used, and keep it for 5 years, look no further than the Japanese bikes. If you are buying new, then you can look at the TVS & Bajaj in the mix. They will certainly last the 8 years that you want out of them. I still think you should test ride a TVS RTR200. Just glimpsed a white one today on the way to office and boy it looked awesome!! It has been optimized for city riding with very good low end torque and should be no slouch on the highways as well till legal speed limits. If you don't like it after the ride no issues but don't dismiss it just yet.

[IshaanIan]

Stay away from commuter bikes like the Unicorn if you love riding. They are simply boring to ride.

First thing you need to ask yourself is what kind of bike do you want. A sport bike with an aggressive riding stance, a naked which will allow you great maneuverability in traffic and other low-speed situations or something like an RE?

I'd suggest buying the Apache RTR200 ABS. Worth every penny, is fun to ride, sounds good and come with ABS. Your friends who tell you that learning how to brake without ABS is better, just don't know anything. ABS only kicks in when it has to, till then your bike will behave the same as any other bike and you will easily be able to feel how much of the front and rear brake ought to be used in which situations. ABS is a huge boon and must be had if possible.

If you don't feel comfortable riding a 200, then look at the Gixxer 150. Fun to ride, handles a wee bit better than the FZ, sounds good and doesn't cost too much. The bike isn't too complicated and can be serviced anywhere so you need only rely on the authorized service center for the first few free services.

Don't understand your logic behind preferring a carburetor over fuel injection. The only advantages it holds are cheaper tuning capabilities. Fuel injection is far more reliable having a bike start easily on a cold day 7-8 years down the line is going to be a boon.

[Swapnil4585]

Originally Posted by Gansan

I don't think the GS 150R is available any more. Was stopped at least six months back. If still available, please let me know, I will buy one immediately.

I checked it with a Suzuki dealer. The bike is still offered for sale.

I don't understand as to why a bike like GS150R can't sell despite having everything an all rounder should have? Suzuki must give her some cosmetic updates, and may be, a redesigned rear.

[The Great]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I'd suggest buying the Apache RTR200 ABS. Worth every penny, is fun to ride, sounds good and come with ABS. Your friends who tell you that learning how to brake without ABS is better, just don't know anything. ABS only kicks in when it has to, till then your bike will behave the same as any other bike and you will easily be able to feel how much of the front and rear brake ought to be used in which situations. ABS is a huge boon and must be had if possible.

I am sure you meant Apache 180 ABS sir.

[sam_sant2005]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I'd suggest buying the Apache RTR200 ABS. Worth every penny, is fun to ride, sounds good and come with ABS. Your friends who tell you that learning how to brake without ABS is better, just don't know anything. ABS only kicks in when it has to, till then your bike will behave the same as any other bike and you will easily be able to feel how much of the front and rear brake ought to be used in which situations. ABS is a huge boon and must be had if possible.

I test drove the RTR200. It is good. Vibes are less but the power is nowhere near the NS200 or Duke's. It is actually disappointing with the power. Nevertheless, ABS is still not in sight for RTR200. The dealer says atleast 3-4 months it will take to launch. And even if it launches there will be a waiting period it seems. Initial demand for RTR 200 seems to be high.

Originally Posted by swift_guy

A performance oriented bike like 200NS or Duke 200 or R15 does not attract many buyers in the second hand market.

I am not sure if this assumption is right. As far as I know there are lot of takers for these bikes, the only reason because they are costly bikes, so there are people who are looking to buy them second hand. NS200 though I am not sure, but definitely I believe r15 and Duke 200 will have some buyers.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by sam_sant2005

I test drove the RTR200. It is good. Vibes are less but the power is nowhere near the NS200 or Duke's. It is actually disappointing with the power. Nevertheless, ABS is still not in sight for RTR200. The dealer says atleast 3-4 months it will take to launch. And even if it launches there will be a waiting period it seems. Initial demand for RTR 200 seems to be high..

Great that you got to test ride it! The power was a known fact.. In most initial ride reports it is mentioned that TVS has optimized the 200 for in-city runs as compared to outright top end. In one of the first ride reports, it was mentioned that this engine and ECU can be tuned from as low as 21bhp till 34bhp (?) but TVS has stuck to good low end torque and for the 200 to be first in a traffic light GP (not actual words but putting it in a nutshell). So when you say the power is nowhere near Duke/NS200, is it in terms of in gear acceleration/top end / low end power delivery? You might want to put up a detailed post in one of the TVS RTR200 threads. Has the vibes reduced at the handle bar and foot pegs? Engine note?

[Trojan]

Originally Posted by swift_guy

Thanks for the great response people. I am overwhelmed. Nice to hear from so many bikers here. Instead of individually replying to every post, I would list down some information in points to avoid clutter.

Hey buddy,

My suggestion would be to go for the Electra, in spite of whatever you hear about reliability etc. (it does need more attention) I owned a Pulsar 180 for 7years and it did give me issues as well, enfields are not shut it forget it type of bikes, it would have been my first bike and I always regret having not bought it then, but then I did and it did give me some issues but its worth it
Pros
- it will keep you grounded
- adds a lot of character
- comfortable even for the occasional long rides
- ages beautifully, even after many years

- Needs attention and a good mechanic who knows and understands the bike, the maintenance is not high

Cheers and all the best!
Trojan

[amit_purohit20]

If I were you in Rs 1 lakh, I would have gone for the bike which gives me the highest power and fun to ride. As some one has said "Power grows on you" but the higher the power the greater the time for the power to grow on you

1) Karizma- Original bike was good, the new one looks horrible and its not selling much too. Old story case closed.

2) Honda Unicorn- Buy it if you are interested only in commuting. Rest its a very boring bike to ride on. If you are interested in very long distance touring and are tight on budget then you should buy this bike for its comfortable riding position and butter smooth (but boring-read no fun) engine. Engine NVH is the best in its class and two classes above. Honda Hornet again the same boring honda engine? It lacks power.

3) Suzuki Gixxer- Good bike, better than Honda Unicorn in power and looks but still not the best in terms of power. Compared to Unicorn has a slant pillion seat so lacks comfort on the pillion side.

4) RE bikes- Buy these bikes only if you were mad for them right from childhood and no other bike comes close to your heart than RE. If you are not one of them stay away from them due to poor reliability, bad quality and expensive spares. The weight itself acts as a detriment to the performance of the machine. RE buying decision has always to be the one taken from heart and it cannot be a decision taken by the brain. If you are in touring with two people and lots of luggage then you should think of buying the RE500.
Recently one of my friend changed from FI to carb due to the poor reliability of RE FI unit.

5) Yamaha FZ- Costly but good bike but nothing much to write about it as there are other bikes which are more powerful in the same price range.
Yamaha R15- Again a good bike with quality parts, but not so much powerful in its price bracket range. It costs above 1 lakh and not worth it due to lack of its power.

6) KTM- The most fun inducing bike I have ever ridden. 200 is worth its every penny. Amazing pickup, fun to ride, has an excellent chassis and braking.
Duke 390 the most amazing bike for 2 lakh Rs but above your budget.

7) Bajaj- Forget the air cooled bikes as they are now old technology. Let us talk about the NS200 and AS200. Engines shared between Duke 200 and NS, except cylinder head and FI Unit. Minimal Vibrations, slick gearshift and good brakes. Bajaj bikes still suffer from failures with respect to auxillaries like radiator, fan etc but should not be a deal breaker as those are minor problems and have been sorted over a period of time.

One thing to note here is that although KTM Duke 200 and NS/AS share the same engine but the AS/NS has been tuned for mileage and so looses on the pickup and handling is also not as agile as a KTM. Duke 200 is far more fun to ride and has mad acceleration in the mid range.

8) TVS- Forget RTR160 due to lack of power when you can buy a RTR180 or 200. RTR 180 - ABS the single biggest advantage, very reliable bike, very good acceleration, very good brakes (but loose their sheen over a period of time). Ok-Ok pillion seat. Rear disc brake is an added advantage.Very good exhaust sound but engine NVH is poor. Vibrations between 4000-5000 rpm are very irritating and engine sounds harsh after that. Amazing chassis makes it very flickable in turns and twisties. Has a bent forward seating position which causes pain in wrists if driven with pillion or on bad roads.

RTR200- I have not ridden it but in reality it seems the power is much more usable than NS200 below 60-70 kmph. It has an upright seating position as compared to its predecessor so no more wrist pains. Monoshock, brilliant chassis, very good brakes and value for money. The good thing is I think it has a balancer shaft incorporated in the engine (correct me if i am wrong) which irons out the vibrations. Carb version would be the one to choose for if you want VFM.

I also believe that one should not fall prey to marketing gimmicks of new technology used in the bike. 4valve v/s 2 valve, Carb or FI, whatever the case be I would be more bothered about what is the additional money and new technology giving me in terms of real world experience. For eg between RTR 160 FI or RTR 160 Carb, I would choose for Carb because of its better pickup and its cheap, reliable and easy to maintain.

My choice in descending order:
1) KTM 200 (But budget goes above 1 lac, but the most fun to ride bike which money can buy in its range)
2) RTR200 ( No liquid cooling so higher reliability, amazing chassis,brakes and acceleration. Upright seating position)
3) AS200 (Good bike which shares its engine with Duke 200,vibrations are minimal and performance better than RTR180 but nowhere near Duke 200)

I have dropped Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki bikes as you have a 1 lakh budget and one should try to go for the maximum power in the given budget.

Thanks

[Hammer & Anvil]

Are used bikes allowed, you have not said that we could not talk about used bikes, right?
Buy a good KTM200 (2012-13 model, 10-25000Km) for about 60-75000. You could browse the olx and quickrs of the world, visit KTM showrooms and see whos upgrading. Speak to guys on KTM threads, do random Facebook searches for KTM forums. You never know what you will come up with.
Dont let KTM issues bog you down.

Keep the spare to get cheap parts from all over India, Bhutan, ebay, south east asia- few interchangeable with the Pulsars--- and have fun...

[VW2010]

My choice in descending order:
1) KTM 200 (But budget goes above 1 lac, but the most fun to ride bike which money can buy in its range)

Agreed and used 200 are now plenty in the market. Get something you can ride for a year and rotate it out. I used to think buying new is good. But lately i am fine with good used bikes which makes it owning experience like renting per month when you roll it off after a year.

For heart felt ownership, i already have my bull which completes its 11th year this year (Wohoo). So the new age bikes are simply a means of fun for me to own and roll.

1 more vote for KTM 200 used or New