[//M]

As per Zauba and a Motoroids article, a Kawasaki Estrella has been imported into India for R&D purposes. It is being speculated that Kawasaki might launch the bike in India and position it against the RE Claasic 350.

Quite interesting !

Source: Motoroids

[Happysmiles]

Yes, very interesting. International prices are in the 3lacs + range.
Would like to see, how kawasaki will price the estrella.

Also, with kawasaki production in India this is going to be very exciting. I would love to have one in my parking.

[pedrolourenco]

IMO they should have launched it as a 350 knowing the mentality of many Indians. Some people will say Enfield 350 is for men and this bike is a toy for boys even though it will probably produce more power than any Enfield.
I just hope they price it right and I'm sure it will be a hit in India.

[Mafia]

I really wonder if it will work in India considering the RE's overwhelming fan following. It will simply be referred to as a rip off from RE.

It is early days and would be better to wait for more info.

[The Great]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

IMO they should have launched it as a 350 knowing the mentality of many Indians. Some people will say Enfield 350 is for men and this bike is a toy for boys even though it will probably produce more power than any Enfield.
I just hope they price it right and I'm sure it will be a hit in India.

Originally Posted by Mafia

I really wonder if it will work in India considering the RE's overwhelming fan following. It will simply be referred to as a rip off from RE.

It is early days and would be better to wait for more info.

RE has overgrown as a brand more than the product. It's a perfect example of cashing in on brand value. Even the Triumph Bonneville is being seen as a costlier "Bullet" by a large volume of people.

I believe Kawasaki should concentrate on the niche they have created in India as performance biking rather than fiddling with the idea of competing with RE. That very mindset might prove to be dangerous for them.

Remember when Yamaha started concentrating on 100cc commuter bikes (crux) to compete with the Honda 100cc ones and nearly destroyed its image as performance bike maker had they not brought in the R15 and FZ16.

[IshaanIan]

Contrary to what a few here think, I believe this would be a good move by Kawasaki, given they can price this to compete with the Classic 350. Kawaski will introduce a certain quality and versatility that the RE's have been lacking, into the space, which ought to be more than enough for them to draw fans to their showrooms IMO. Remember as many fans as RE has, they also have their fair share of haters (I for one am not at all a fan of the brand or their products) and it is smart to play to that market. Kinda like the Galaxy vs the iPhone. Even though Apple and its iPhone became synonymous with what a good touchscreen phone ought to be, Samsung catered to the skeptics or the smarter audience, and clawed themselves a respectable market share.

[payeng]

With Fuel Injection and Manufacturing outside India (probably assembled as CKD).. hoping that it will be priced around 1.25-1.50 (around the RE Classic 350) isn't realistic.

Even with CKD expect a pricetag of 2.25-2.50 Lakhs rupees.

[navin_v8]

As a retro classic lover I am happy to see Bajaj importing the Kawasaki Estrella 250 to India for R&D purpose. Bajaj had made it clear about its intentions to take on RE in the retro classic segment including cruisers. More on this is detailed on the below mentioned link:

http://www.msn.com/en-in/autos/news/...jaj/ar-BBsvGKo

Now will somebody tell Bajaj to ask Kawasaki to consider bringing in their retro classic W800 to shake up the high capacity retro classic scene here in India and give that famous cheating company from UK(name deliberately not mentioned) a run for its money.

[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by payeng

With Fuel Injection and Manufacturing outside India (probably assembled as CKD).. hoping that it will be priced around 1.25-1.50 (around the RE Classic 350) isn't realistic.

Even with CKD expect a pricetag of 2.25-2.50 Lakhs rupees.

With a pricing of 2.25-2.50 lakh, Kawasaki and Bajaj should not even bother to get it. At this price, this bike will be another Suzuki Inazuma.

But who knows? Bajaj may pull another KTM and manage to sell the bike at 1.5 lakh range.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Bajaj had made it clear about its intentions to take on RE in the retro classic segment including cruisers.

Mr. Bajaj did speak about taking on RE but said nothing whether it would be with a "retro classic" product. In my opinion the CS400 (which was lately spotted testing) is the product which Bajaj would be planning to take on RE.

And rightly so according to me, since another Retro Classic (RE/Bullet Wannabe) would not generate that much consumer curiosity (people would generally dismiss it saying its a RE/Bullet Copy)

The CS400 does look promising (and Differentiated) and could hold its own against the RE's at SIMILAR PRICE POINT (which is what is actually meant when one states that it intends to take on RE)

Originally Posted by timuseravan

But who knows? Bajaj may pull another KTM and manage to sell the bike at 1.5 lakh range.

Highly improbable unless the vendor base is in India and manufacturing happens on our backyard too.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by payeng

Mr. Bajaj did speak about taking on RE but said nothing whether it would be with a "retro classic" product. In my opinion the CS400 (which was lately spotted testing) is the product which Bajaj would be planning to take on RE.

And rightly so according to me, since another Retro Classic (RE/Bullet Wannabe) would not generate that much consumer curiosity (people would generally dismiss it saying its a RE/Bullet Copy)

payeng mate the fact that Bajaj has imported Kawasaki Estrella 250 into India for R&D purpose makes it clear that Bajaj is looking at tapping into the lion's share of Retro Classic motorcycles. This is cemented by the fact that the Estrella 250 is itself a retro classic motorcycle. Also only a retro classic can compete against a retro classic unless one goes for cross shopping. Case in point is Kawasaki's W800, Honda's CB1100, Suzuki's TU250X, Yamaha's SR400, Triumph's Bonneville, etc.. and many more from European manufacturers like Ducati, Moto Guzzi, BMW, etc. compete against each other in the retro classic category. Currently RE is on a roll due to virtually no competition in the retro classic category in India. There were motorcycles launched in other categories from other manufacturers but RE is still unscathed and is having a free run. The whole world is witnessing a paradigm change in demand for Retro Classic motorcycles. In India Bajaj is the only manufacturer who has been experimenting with various models and according to me it will bring in a retro classic model to compete with RE as it has cost of production trump card against RE. Poser/Wannabe crowd not withstanding. Bajaj also has a decent export sales so they might even export these retro classic models outside of India, who knows.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

payeng mate the fact that Bajaj has imported Kawasaki Estrella 250 into India for R&D purpose makes it clear that Bajaj is looking at tapping into the lion's share of Retro Classic motorcycles.

Even a Kawasaki Balius 250 (In-Line 4) was once found at the Bajaj premises.. and a whole lot of automobiles (2-3 and 4 wheeled variety)

Whether the Estrella has been brought for R&D purpose? No one said so (except those over enthusiastic BLOGS).

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Also only a retro classic can compete against a retro classic unless one goes for cross shopping. Case in point is Kawasaki's W800, Honda's CB1100, Suzuki's TU250X, Yamaha's SR400, Triumph's Bonneville, etc.. and many more from European manufacturers like Ducati, Moto Guzzi, BMW, etc. compete against each other in the retro classic category.

Even Mahindra has pitted the Centuro/Pantera against the Splendor/Passion. Success often brings copycats.. but how likely are the followers successful?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Currently RE is on a roll due to virtually no competition in the retro classic category in India.

No Current Competition for RE: Yes, But Not because it a Retro / Classic product.

But actually its because no other product exists in the market that can provide the Poser Value i.e the Road Presence / Aura / Exhaust Sound / Head turning ability / Manliness within a budget of 1.25-2.00 lakhs like a Bullet / Classic / Thunderbird

(R15-CBR 150R/250R-KTMs are infinitely better machines than the REs.. but not MANLY enough)


One has to look beyond what seems is the obvious.

[navin_v8]

Even a Kawasaki Balius 250 (In-Line 4) was once found at the Bajaj premises.. and a whole lot of automobiles (2-3 and 4 wheeled variety)

Was there an inline 4 market in India at that point of time like it is for a retro classic now? I don't think so. If you want the figures for retro classic other than RE then Bonneville is an example of a foreign manufacturer who has had success with this model in India.

Whether the Estrella has been brought for R&D purpose? No one said so (except those over enthusiastic BLOGS).

If you would've taken the pain to go through the link I sent it is clearly mentioned and I quote, "In the description section, it’s clearly mentioned that this cruiser is here for R&D purposes."

Even Mahindra has pitted the Centuro/Pantera against the Splendor/Passion. Success often brings copycats.. but how likely are the followers successful?

This example is totally baseless as the target audience is totally different which dictates ease of availability of spares, wide service network, familiarity with the motorcycle, brand recall, etc. all in which Mahindra does not stand a chance before Hero commuters. The target audience for a Retro Classic is niche and growing, also the audience here is more concerned about looks and styling along with adequate power and brand heritage. Bajaj does have a brand heritage and their motorcycles oozes styling and adequate power, so I believe it is the only local manufacturer who can take on RE at the Retro Classic game.

No Competition: Yes, But Not because it a Retro / Classic product.

But actually its because no other product exists in the market that can provide the Poser Value i.e the Road Presence / Aura / Exhaust Sound / Head turning ability / Manliness within a budget of 1.25-2.00 lakhs like a Bullet / Classic / Thunderbird

(R15-CBR250R-KTMs are infinitely better machines than the REs.. but not MANLY enough)

Some of the aspects you highlighted in bold does bring out the characteristic of a Retro Classic appeal in RE for its target audience. So what if someone buys it for poser value or manliness there is nothing wrong with it, to each his own. Branding owners of RE motorcycles with words like poser and macho is so funny like dhiraj aka dkaile mentioned on some other thread where people who ride BMW motorcycles are considered gay.

One has to look beyond what seems is the obvious.

That depends on one's perspective of looking at things. Anyways I think we are going way on this thread.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Was there an inline 4 market in India at that point of time like it is for a retro classic now? I don't think so. If you want the figures for retro classic other than RE then Bonneville is an example of a foreign manufacturer who has had success with this model in India.

The Harleys are Global Success.. so what happened to Yamaha Stars, Kawasaki Vulcans, Suzuki Boulevards, Honda Shadows..??

Originally Posted by navin_v8

If you would've taken the pain to go through the link I sent it is clearly mentioned and I quote, "In the description section, it’s clearly mentioned that this cruiser is here for R&D purposes."

Even national publications once upon a time carried news that the R15 would make 21 Ps (prior to it's launch) of Power and the Kawasaki Ninja 250R would be launched at 1.50 Lakhs. Also wasn't the R125 India bound?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

This example is totally baseless as the target audience is totally different which dictates ease of availability of spares, wide service network, familiarity with the motorcycle, brand recall, etc. all in which Mahindra does not stand a chance before Hero commuters.

But that did not stop Mahindra from falling into the temptation of chasing the same market with "same type" of product did it?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

The target audience for a Retro Classic is niche and growing, also the audience here is more concerned about looks and styling along with adequate power and brand heritage. Bajaj does have a brand heritage and their motorcycles oozes styling and adequate power, so I believe it is the only local manufacturer who can take on RE at the Retro Classic game.

With Global demand for Harleys growing, what was wrong with Yamaha Stars / Kawasaki Vulcans / Suzuki Boulevards / Honda Shadows?

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Some of the aspects you highlighted in bold does bring out the characteristic of a Retro Classic appeal in RE for its target audience. So what if someone buys it for poser value or manliness there is nothing wrong with it, to each his own.

Who ever said that it is Wrong..?? I just pointed out why RE's make the hearts of Desi Bikers Flutter (truth behind the obvious, in plain English).

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Anyways I think we are going way on this thread.

I don't think so.. I think its healthy debate that's going on.

[navin_v8]

Originally Posted by payeng

The Harleys are Global Success.. so what happened to Yamaha Stars, Kawasaki Vulcans and Classic Cruisers from Honda..??

This has been a part of many a discussions on not only this forum but elsewhere too. The fact is none of the big 4 Japanese brands has the same appeal and aura(at least for its target audience) as that of the Harley Davidson no matter how good or technically advanced the Japanese motorcycles are. This is even though the Japanese cruisers are relatively cheaper than HD to own and maintain and that is for the world market. HD is a success in India as all the Big 4 Japanese companies have chose to ignore the cruiser market in India and HD is on the roll and rightly so as it has a first mover advantage. Talking about the Indian market, it is a fact that none of the manufacturers you mentioned above can compete with RE in terms of pricing in Retro Classic category, so Bajaj it is.

Even national publications once upon a time carried news that the R15 would make 21 Ps (prior to it's launch) of Power and the Kawasaki Ninja 250R would be launched at 1.50 Lakhs. Also wasn't the R125 India bound?

We are talking here about R&D of an imported motorcycle by Bajaj and not about launching price and power figures. Which other Indian manufacturer has imported a retro classic bike for R&D purpose in recent times? I think it is only Bajaj which has done it as they want to take on RE at the retro classic game.

But that did not stop Mahindra from falling into the temptation of chasing the same market with "same type" of product did it?

So what will stop Bajaj from pursuing a retro classic market? if I take your above statement into consideration?

With Global demand for Harleys growing, what was wrong with Yamaha Stars / Kawasaki Vulcans / Suzuki Boulevards / Classic Cruisers from Honda?

Read above. Indian market is different than world market where cost dictates the market. Bajaj is the right candidate to take on RE with the Japanese big 4 knowingly ignoring the Indian cruiser and retro classic market.

Who ever said that it is Wrong..?? I just pointed out why RE's make the heart Flutter of Desi Bikers (truth behind the obvious in plain English).

Oh ok then what was your purpose when you mentioned about words like poser, manliness, etc, while addressing RE buyers?