[bigron]

Wow, not a great start for Jawa. It is ridiculous that owners with bikes few months old are facing such quality issues. Nothing is a bigger bummer than getting a bike after waiting for long and realizing that you have ended up with scrap.

For people who have cancelled their booking and are still waiting for their refund, a bonafide claim to recover the amount exists. A read of the booking agreement would clarify what is the policy regarding refund.

The dealer can be booked for fraud if they do not honor the return. Start with sending a letter to the Manufacturer explaining the sequence of events and for processing of the refund. After that a legal notice explaining that you are going to proceed legally if the refund is not processed.

[R.G]

Originally Posted by bigron

For people who have cancelled their booking and are still waiting for their refund, a bonafide claim to recover the amount exists. A read of the booking agreement would clarify what is the policy regarding refund.

Thanks @bigron . I did save some references for later , when the booking and the cancellation were done.

Tweet from JawaMotorcycles regarding booking dated 21 Nov 2018

https://twitter.com/jawamotorcycles/...119105?lang=en

Have you booked the Jawa or the forty two? Check your inbox for an exclusive certificate that we’ve mailed you! Tweet it by tagging us using #BookedMyJawa. Still yet to book? Visit https://bit.ly/2qZ8Sd4 & pay a fully refundable amount of Rs.5000 to book your ride today! #jawa

Also the refund policy states the following

Ref : https://www.jawamotorcycles.com/terms-of-use

27. Cancellation Policy for Booking on website: User can cancel his Booking before invoicing at dealership. The Booking can be cancelled only on the website. The Booking amount as applicable will be refunded net of transaction charges to the same account from where Booking was generated.

I am eligible for full refund if I understand the clause correctly.

For online booking , can we defer the delivery ? .For those who are holding on to their booking and have cancellation in their mind , the caveat here is that the cancellation may incur charges once the invoice is generated.

[bigron]

Yes, their policy specifies a full refund minus 'transaction charges'. So effectively a full refund. Once the booking is cancelled online, they should have contacted you via email/phone/sms.
Also, once invoice is generated no cancellation is allowed. And if someone cancels, no refund is required to be given.
I am presuming that the company is delaying responses on cancellation so they have time to generate an invoice and hence refuse cancellation.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by R.G

For online booking , can we defer the delivery ? .For those who are holding on to their booking and have cancellation in their mind , the caveat here is that the cancellation may incur charges once the invoice is generated.

For those on the fence, there really is no reason to wait with your current booking till there is an invoice and then delay delivery (presumably for a newer batch with better quality) and lose money if there is no improvement and you want to cancel. I would say cancel and get your booking money at the earliest and wait patiently. It is not like the bikes are worth their price with all the current rust bucket issues that have been highlighted. Let Mahindra set its shop in order and improve production numbers. Then book it again and take delivery with peace of mind if you want a Jawa.

I have read the terms and conditions on the Jawa website. Though I am not a lawyer, I have worked with quite a few legal contracts. There are some interesting points in there, I have picked out the most relevant ones and highlighted the key parts in bold.

9. The price of the Motorcycle shall be the price applicable on the date of delivery of the motorcycle to the User by the dealership. It is specifically understood that the Booking is not an option or an implied fixed price contract. No interest is payable by CLPL or Dealership on the Booking amount.

27. Cancellation Policy for Booking on website: User can cancel his Booking before invoicing at dealership. The Booking can be cancelled only on the website. The Booking amount as applicable will be refunded net of transaction charges to the same account from where Booking was generated.

31. In case of any dispute, inconvenience or loss occurs due to User negligence, non-compliance or breach of applicable law, the User agrees to indemnify CLPL, its directors, employees, business partners and Dealership.

I would suggest that you create a new thread on this. Since it is buried in the Jawa thread that not everybody reads, the issue probably hasnt been highlighted properly.

Originally Posted by bigron

I am presuming that the company is delaying responses on cancellation so they have time to generate an invoice and hence refuse cancellation.

Definitely seems to be the case

[R.G]

No interest is payable by CLPL or Dealership on the Booking amount.

I am no legal expert , but going by a layman logic , I am not sure if the amount can be considered "booking amount" once the cancellation is processed. The way I see it is , from the day I have cancelled my booking they are keeping my money unlawfully. Experts please comment.

I got a response to my last email that they have escalated my issue . I am just waiting to see what difference does that make.

Clause 31 is well crafted for the people holding on to their booking , if I understand it correctly. Last minute cancellations/decisions will cause them money for sure.

Over all , my trust on a Mahindra product will not be the same anymore .

I think @neil.jericho has a point here and looks like this matter requires a wider attention .

Mods , should I start a new thread or could you please help move this post to new thread.

[srini1785]

Quality is a statistical thing. If say, out a batch of 3000 units , 3 got rusting issues , the company might not change their production / quality policies . Those 3 who were at the receiving end, would probably be taken care at the dealership level. If however , 30 out of 3000 got rusting issues, then the company would have to investigate. If 300 out of 3000 got these kind of issues , then jawa have a full scale riot in their hands. Let see how this plays out.

As far as cancellation refunds, its a bit messy. As some have pointed out , once invoiced, cancellation would be problem since now you need to adjust GST. However , invoicing for stuff that you don't actually posses is also a punishable offense. Hope Jawa dealers don't do that kind of thing to keep people from asking for refunds.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by R.G

I am no legal expert , but going by a layman logic , I am not sure if the amount can be considered "booking amount" once the cancellation is processed. The way I see it is , from the day I have cancelled my booking they are keeping my money unlawfully. Experts please comment.

I got a response to my last email that they have escalated my issue . I am just waiting to see what difference does that make.

Clause 31 is well crafted for the people holding on to their booking , if I understand it correctly. Last minute cancellations/decisions will cause them money for sure.

R.G, my two cents on the actual intent behind the wording from Mahindra and how it should be interpreted is below. Please do bear in mind that I am not a lawyer but I have worked quite a lot with them and often did their job when it came to contracts, so take it for what it is worth.

9. The price of the Motorcycle shall be the price applicable on the date of delivery of the motorcycle to the User by the dealership. It is specifically understood that the Booking is not an option or an implied fixed price contract. No interest is payable by CLPL or Dealership on the Booking amount.

The clause of interest not being payable by CPCL or the dealership on the booking amount has to be seen in the context of the preceding 2 sentences. Mahindra (technically CPCL in the contract but for our ease of understanding, I am taking Mahindra) is basically safe guarding themselves. This is the first time that I have seen any clause related to interest on a booking amount not related to cancellation. This makes me suspect that Mahindra knew that there would be long waiting periods from day 1.

With 3 statements together, Mahindra is ensuring that a customer cannot come back and say that Mahindra took 10 months (as an example) to deliver the bike and the price went up by say Rs 20,000 in the end and he could have earned interest off that money for 10 months that should be adjusted against the final on road price.

Of course this seems to be an unlikely scenario but if Mahindra genuinely knew that they could not meet the demand in reasonable amounts of time, they would have got their lawyers to drop in this clause as a safety net.

27. Cancellation Policy for Booking on website: User can cancel his Booking before invoicing at dealership. The Booking can be cancelled only on the website. The Booking amount as applicable will be refunded net of transaction charges to the same account from where Booking was generated.

bigron has articulated the most likely scenario very well. It looks like they are deliberately delaying the processing of your cancellation until they are able to show that it is already invoiced to the dealership and you cant get your money back.

31. In case of any dispute, inconvenience or loss occurs due to User negligence, non-compliance or breach of applicable law, the User agrees to indemnify CLPL, its directors, employees, business partners and Dealership.

This is the most interesting one for me since you basically agree to not go after Mahindra (i.e. CLPL) or its directors or employees or business partners or dealerships in case they breach current laws. By refusing to return your money, they are willingly performing an illegal act. But you have agreed to indemnify their stakeholders.

Here, lawyers can pitch in, I am just best guessing, but my understanding is that if you take it to the courts, you can only recover your money from Mahindra but cannot get them to pay you any money for mental agony, attorneys fees etc.

Overall, the terms and conditions are written to very strongly favour Mahindra (duh!) and are definitely not in favour of the customer.

[R.G]

Thank you very much @neil.jericho for the detailed explanation of the terms. It appears that there is room for a new dedicated thread to explain the "terms of use" for each automotive products in our country.

The grey area for me in point 9 is what to call the money involved once the booking is cancelled. It is technically not any more a booking amount. I am not actually after the interest if there is any . Whatever be it , I sincerely hope they give me back the money which is rightfully mine.

The only reason I did the booking is the "full refund" bait. For me , the company failed to honour the very first commitment ( full refund ) they made on booking the vehicle. The delay in refund is simply not acceptable considering I don't owe them anything . I hope it would not be the case with other promises they make.

As you have rightly pointed out , term 31 is the funniest and the scariest . Who owns the responsibility if something wrong happens ? Can this term actually stand before law ?

If they are actually waiting for generating the invoice and deny me my refund , this whole booking process is a scam ! I honestly do believe that there is some technical issue that prevents the company from processing the refund. They did provide a work around to request for refund with their PayU service provider. Why it did not work is another mystery though.

I hope they respond to the escalation soon and at least provide me a date ( refund estimator will work here ) on which the refund would be done.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by R.G

The only reason I did the booking is the "full refund" bait. For me , the company failed to honour the very first commitment ( full refund ) they made on booking the vehicle. The delay in refund is simply not acceptable considering I don't owe them anything . I hope it would not be the case with other promises they make.

Just to give some additional context, my cancellation happened back in May; I submitted the request via their website and got a confirmation/acknowledgment mail from them a day later. Over the next few days, I kept getting SMSes from the local dealer that a bike has been allocated to me and the next step was to pay the entire amount. I spoke to them a few times to remind that I have got the cancellation acknowledgment and then only they stopped.

It's been 3+ months but the money hasn't reached my account. The original payment was done via PayU gateway and I got a confirmation from them that refund transaction had happened (back in May). After a long back&forth sessions with PayU via twitter and emails, and later reaching out to senior folks, I have now an active conversation with their settlement team. The moment I mentioned the merchant being Classic Legends / Jawa, they immediately shifted into a different mode, stating they are facing several customer refund issues with the same merchant; apparently CL/Jawa initiates the refund transactions but doesn't release the funds.

The support team is still to come back, but overall it's been 3+ months since I initiated the refund request and the money is yet to reach my account.

[R.G]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

apparently CL/Jawa initiates the refund transactions but doesn't release the funds.

If this is the real reason , then it is a scam and a dead end. I find it hard to believe CLPL/Mahindra would stoop to do this. Shame on them !!

[R.G]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I would suggest that you create a new thread on this. Since it is buried in the Jawa thread that not everybody reads, the issue probably hasnt been highlighted properly.

Started a new thread . https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...tion-saga.html

[sukiwa]

Some journalists and V-bloggers are in Ladakh region for next few days to ride Jawa & Jawa 42. Although it is an CLPL organised event, I am expecting candid feedback from quite a few of them.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by arun1100

I was just comparing the VIN number etched and the weld marks in my friend's Honda 650 CBR and my Jawa.

I could compare the weld appearance between the Himalayan and my Impulse, and the latter would turn out very unfavorably.

But end of the day, loads of Himalayans have seen their chassis break (sometimes catastrophically/dangerously), and I've yet to hear of it happening on an Impulse.

Old Bullets with ugly manual welds? Not much trouble. New UCE Bullets with robotic welds? Problems.

Both can work. Main thing is penetration...

Don't worry too much.

I really want to ride one of these new Jawas, hoping it turns out to be a good product.

-Eric

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by sukiwa

Some journalists and V-bloggers are in Ladakh region for next few days to ride Jawa & Jawa 42. Although it is an CLPL organised event, I am expecting candid feedback from quite a few of them.

Don't hold your breath. Not any of them would dare that, or they will be shunted out of all fully paid first class trips to other manufacturer launch or ride events.

And therefore less sponsor opportunities if there arises one.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by sukiwa

I am expecting candid feedback from quite a few of them.

What you get instead, is a well-shot cinematic video - I guess. Here is a teaser -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdtEV0DzPFY