[2000rpm]

Dude, i would really suggest a Dominar. ABS being the main reason. I think a quarter litre bikr definitely needs an ABS for safety in any conditions - city or highway.

[tejus.s]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

Dude, i would really suggest a Dominar. ABS being the main reason. I think a quarter litre bikr definitely needs an ABS for safety in any conditions - city or highway.

The Dominar is way out of my price bracket, hence did not consider. Didn't want to test ride knowing that it was futile.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by tejus.s

Either way, I would greatly appreciate any current owners and enthusiasts to throw some light and help understand points I might have missed out in my TD.

Well, I can't advise much about the technical aspects, but if you're like me and prefer understated looks in a bike [sort of a wolf in sheep's clothing, if you will], then I'd say skip the Apache RTR 200. IMO, it's looks are too "wannabe", which is a pity as all Apache's till now have had really low-key & classy looks [pardon the bias, I'm a Apache RTR 160 owner myself ]

The FZ25 on the other hand looks really good to me, specially in the "Knight Black" shade; would've picked one up pronto, only if I had some moolah handy!

Cheers,
Vikram

[tejus.s]

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

Well, I can't advise much about the technical aspects, but if you're like me and prefer understated looks in a bike [sort of a wolf in sheep's clothing, if you will], then I'd say skip the Apache RTR 200.

Hey Vikram, yes, I do believe in subtle looks over loud designs. The ZMA-R in black was as discrete as big capacity bikes could get at on point. I did however go for the white version since black was a no no at home!

[2000rpm]

Originally Posted by tejus.s

The Dominar is way out of my price bracket, hence did not consider. Didn't want to test ride knowing that it was futile.

I suggest you can opt for a loan with minimum down-payment. So that you can manage the affordability part. But you cant imagine the added safety because of ABS. All my bike falls historically have been due to gravel and ABS would have prevented most of them.

Thankfully never got hurt seriously.

[tejus.s]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

But you cant imagine the added safety because of ABS.

I completely agree with you on the fact that ABS is an extremely important aspect as the bike gets powerful, but I would not want to get into such a huge financial burden at an early stage in my career.

[Madhav Nayak]

Originally Posted by tejus.s

I completely agree with you on the fact that ABS is an extremely important aspect as the bike gets powerful, but I would not want to get into such a huge financial burden at an early stage in my career.

Hey there Tejus. If the FZ25 is in your price range, the ABS Dominar is just 25k away. If you save for a couple of months, you should be able to make up the gap and believe me it's worth the wait. Of course, I wouldn't assume to know your financial situation, so I'll drop it there.

Of the two bikes in your crosshairs, I would recommend the FZ25 simply because of reliability. You've grown accustomed to your Karizma's reliability and simplicity, so the Yamaha will be the right bike to transition to. I've come to detest TVS's crappy service quality(although I hear the RTR200 is doing well for itself, I'm inclined not to believe it yet) and incompetent mechanics. I've had my share of horrendous experiences with them.

However, I had a ton of fun on my RTR180ABS(crappy ABS) irrespective. TVS bikes have a kind of urgency to them that's almost warlike in nature. Every time I got onto my RTR it was like I was waging a war against the roads themselves. I really loved the exhaust note on my 180(still think it's one of the best) and I genuinely feel like TVS outdid themselves in that department on the 200. I miss the sport ergonomics of the 180, which have given way to an upright relaxed posture on the RTR, though this makes the bike feel a lot less cramped.

All in all, just as everyone else said, the RTR is an urgent, brash screamer that will be screaming in all it's glory, tongue hanging out and drool flying back by the time you hit the 100kmph mark, but the FZ on the other hand will be trundling along completely composed like 100kmph is just a tea-time engagement for little British ladies.

You pick.

[tejus.s]

Thanks Madhav, the Dominar with ABS is about 40,000/- more expensive than the FZ25 on road in Bangalore and not to mention, the fuel economy on the long run is something to factor in as well.

You're right in saying that the FZ is the best transition I could have thought of and seemed like the logical choice.

[sriramv.iyer]

My 0.02c

1. My guess: You'll grow out of FZ25 in no time - You already have a 223cc / 17 BHP Karizma and you want to get a 250 cc / 20 BHP FZ25. You'll go bored really soon. It won't even feel like an upgrade

2. You are young, and your finances will get only better - It makes sense to buy a 373cc / 34 BHP Dominar with ABS - It will feel like a proper upgrade for sometime

3. You had mentioned your financial constraints - But, if you can save somewhere and get a bike with ABS, nothing like it. If ABS saves your skin atleast once, it is totally worth it. If you are taking your bike on loan, this 40K, should hopefully feel less painful, as difference in EMI should hopefully be small.

-----

On a side note, I was driving to Chennai and a bike was overtook me and kept a serious pace for a while till it exited at Hosur. I was surprised to see it was an Apache RTR 200. (I was driving my 204 BHP / 500 NM C250d ) - Wish they launch it with ABS (as promised 20 years ago )

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Madhav Nayak

However, I had a ton of fun on my RTR180ABS(crappy ABS) irrespective.

Would like to know more

TVS bikes have a kind of urgency to them that's almost warlike in nature. Every time I got onto my RTR it was like I was waging a war against the roads themselves. I really loved the exhaust note on my 180(still think it's one of the best) and I genuinely feel like TVS outdid themselves in that department on the 200. I miss the sport ergonomics of the 180, which have given way to an upright relaxed posture on the RTR, though this makes the bike feel a lot less cramped.

All in all, just as everyone else said, the RTR is an urgent, brash screamer that will be screaming in all it's glory, tongue hanging out and drool flying back by the time you hit the 100kmph mark

And would like to know your take on the Duke 200.

Regards
Sutripta

[PrasannaDhana]

I have the same questions that Sutripta has asked.

I recently got to ride an apache RTR 180. I genuinely found it to be sluggish for a 180. In comparison, good old pulsar 180 was fun. Moreover vibes kept creeping in terribly beyond 70 kmph.

I really cant understand how "urgency" can be attributed to TVS apaches. Even the 200 RTR isnt urgent, in fact, it is the slowest 200 cc in the market now. Agreed, the exhaust note is impressive, but that is about it.

Rx100 had the urgency in it. Currently, Dukes have a kind of urgency to them. I ride a Duke 390 and it feels at home with T.W.O type of riding. Even the smaller Duke 200 has that sense of urgency in its power delivery.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

My guess: You'll grow out of FZ25 in no time - You already have a 223cc / 17 BHP Karizma and you want to get a 250 cc / 20 BHP FZ25. You'll go bored really soon. It won't even feel like an upgrade

This is perfectly sane advice and i would give it some serious thought before plonking my hard earned money on either of these 2 bikes in your shortlist. And as mentioned, if you are buying on EMI the differential should be less in per month terms at least. Please do give this some thought. Otherwise, if you must chose between the 2 in the thread title, the FZ25 will surely feel very similar and like a grown up ZMA. If that is what you are looking for, then it is a safe choice, but where is the fun in that?? A contrary opinion but if the bike will see relatively less highway trips and more of in city riding, the RTR200 should be a good choice as it has very good low end torque and there are no major quality issues to be reported on the latest batch. Also please check bhpian Vik's report of the FZ25 where he has mentioned some issues/niggles that he has faced. Evaluate if they are deal breakers or not for you before taking the plunge. All the best and do keep us updated on your choice.

[Madhav Nayak]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Would like to know more

And would like to know your take on the Duke 200.

Ah, let me first put my statements into perspective - A lot of my experience stems a 110cc Honda CB Twister, my old RTR and my CBR250R. My only experience with ABS comes from the RTR and my CBR(which is, what? Half of India's ABS equipped offerings in the segment?).

IMO, the ABS equipped on the RTR is overly intrusive and disappointingly inefficient. This is sad, because the brakes are actually excellent. The brakes are progressive and give amazing feedback, but just as you get the feel, the ABS kicks in ruining the whole experience. The option to turn ABS off is a welcome addition on the RTR, but for some reason on my bike this stopped working after 3 months. The mechanics never figured out why and were never able to fix it either.

ABS is great as a safety feature, but the ABS equipped on the RTR is well geared to dull a biker's braking skill.

As for my take on the Duke 200, I wouldn't presume to comment on it since I really haven't taken one for a long spin. I've done a few test rides, and from those I can easily tell you that the Duke is in a class of it's own.

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

I have the same questions that Sutripta has asked.

I recently got to ride an apache RTR 180. I genuinely found it to be sluggish for a 180. In comparison, good old pulsar 180 was fun. Moreover vibes kept creeping in terribly beyond 70 kmph.

I really cant understand how "urgency" can be attributed to TVS apaches. Even the 200 RTR isnt urgent, in fact, it is the slowest 200 cc in the market now. Agreed, the exhaust note is impressive, but that is about it.

Rx100 had the urgency in it. Currently, Dukes have a kind of urgency to them. I ride a Duke 390 and it feels at home with T.W.O type of riding. Even the smaller Duke 200 has that sense of urgency in its power delivery.

Prasanna, while I can explain why you might have felt the RTR to be sluggish, I'm surprised you found a P180 more fun. Can you tell me why?

The RTR has a very big flaw - the load it can carry tops out at 130kgs. That's very very low for a 180cc mill. When I owned the RTR, I weighed in at 110kg, and like you said the bike was mostly sluggish. As I lost weight, I was able to make out the difference in performance. As I asked around, the general consensus was that the RTR's performance was severely degraded with an increase in load.

IMO, the RTR has the same urgency that the Dukes and RX have. Of course, once the Dukes are put next to the RTR, the latter seems sluggish in comparison. But that doesn't change the short geared screaming nature of the RTR. That's where the urgency comes from. Even in the top gear, the bike doesn't seem happy, it feels like there needs to be another gear. There is no cruising on the RTR. You go fast.

Also, it seems I have failed to communicate properly here. I never said the RTR200 is an urgent bike. That description was solely reserved for my old 180. I have ridden the 200 and it looses all steam at the top end. Which is why I made the description calling it a brash screamer. It seems I glorified it in the process.

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Madhav Nayak

IMO, the ABS equipped on the RTR is overly intrusive and disappointingly inefficient.

A point I've noted:- All ABSs are not created equal. Whether by design (optimising different parameters) or otherwise I would not know. But the fact that maybe the one I'm riding on has not been sufficiently tested, put on as a marketing tick the box option, or forced to by government regulations, will always be at the back of my mind.

Anyway, with shills and trolls abounding, a topic well worth avoiding.

Regards
Sutripta

[tejus.s]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

My 0.02c

1. My guess: You'll grow out of FZ25 in no time - You already have a 223cc / 17 BHP Karizma and you want to get a 250 cc / 20 BHP FZ25. You'll go bored really soon. It won't even feel like an upgrade

2. You are young, and your finances will get only better - It makes sense to buy a 373cc / 34 BHP Dominar with ABS - It will feel like a proper upgrade for sometime

Thank you for your advice! While I do not consider either of these two an 'upgrade' as you rightly pointed out, in my books the FZ is a more modern version of the Karizma. It might not have the latest in terms of engine tech or display units, but there is a sense of solid engineering that has gone into the design if the bike. Please note that this is only my take on the bikes after a couple of test rides.

As much as owners of Bajaj products have given a thumbs up for the quality of their bikes, I have my reservations on plonking hard earned money on Pulsars. I have no intent to start a huge argument here, but in my books the Japanese have a more thorough approach to engineering their bikes. In my initial post, I have mentioned my doubts on the Pulsar and spending the additional moolah on the Dominar is really scary for me! Great machines, great company, however, my perception on Bajaj would somehow not let me spend that much cash on their products. Again, this is not meant to offend any owners and fans of their products, just my mental block typing the answer here!

Originally Posted by abhinav.s

This is perfectly sane advice and i would give it some serious thought before plonking my hard earned money on either of these 2 bikes in your shortlist. And as mentioned, if you are buying on EMI the differential should be less in per month terms at least. Please do give this some thought. Otherwise, if you must chose between the 2 in the thread title, the FZ25 will surely feel very similar and like a grown up ZMA. If that is what you are looking for, then it is a safe choice, but where is the fun in that?? A contrary opinion but if the bike will see relatively less highway trips and more of in city riding, the RTR200 should be a good choice as it has very good low end torque and there are no major quality issues to be reported on the latest batch. Also please check bhpian Vik's report of the FZ25 where he has mentioned some issues/niggles that he has faced. Evaluate if they are deal breakers or not for you before taking the plunge. All the best and do keep us updated on your choice.

I really enjoyed the relaxed nature of the FZ over the RTR. I guess at a sub conscious level I find it more likable than something that keeps on my toes! Thank you for your suggestion on the ownership report. Will surely check it out.