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Old 30th January 2018, 21:32   #46
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Originally Posted by nikhn View Post
Surprising. The ECU also has to be flashed with a different software or an OE ECU has to be used which comes with the ABS equipped bike. Even then, using a non OE HU and that too from another bike is risky. Calibration will be off. I don't think it's worth the risk.
You mean the ECU of the ABS unit? If so then true. If you mean the engine controller, then no, the ECM has no role to play in the operation of ABS in the Ninja. The ABS is a completely distinct system with its own inputs and outputs independent of the ECM. Hence, retrofitting is straight forward. But since the working of bike ABS is pretty simple, I think they have lifted the ABS module out of an RC and installed on the Ninja. Even the ABS modules are common among bikes and there will be limited set of offerings from manufacturers. Hence, there wouldnt be a huge issue here.

For example, the toner wheel of the Ninja is same as that of many suzuki bikes, including the latest Intruder. This is mounted with the help of the bolts that hold the disc. However, in the ninja shown in the video, its mounted on a separate hub. If I get to explore an RC in detail, I will understand this setup better.
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Old 31st January 2018, 20:35   #47
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
You mean the ECU of the ABS unit? If so then true. If you mean the engine controller, then no, the ECM has no role to play in the operation of ABS in the Ninja. The ABS is a completely distinct system with its own inputs and outputs independent of the ECM. Hence, retrofitting is straight forward. But since the working of bike ABS is pretty simple, I think they have lifted the ABS module out of an RC and installed on the Ninja.
Respectfully disagree here. I might be going OT but the Engine ECU is always connected to the ABS ECU and even though it might not impact working of ABS as a function, it will still cause issues in terms of signal input and output. There are few critical inputs coming from the Engine ECU as well and outputs going to the Engine ECU for certain functions. I know the KTM ABS is from Bosch and it is a 9.1MP version so it will give/take signals from Engine ECU.

Also, retrofitting is not as simple as putting an ABS unit from one bike to the other since it directly depends on the wheel calliper size and pressure and master cylinder pressure. Granted the ABS will work but it will not be as effective as an OEM fitted and calibrated ABS, so retrofitting in my eyes is still a risk.
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Old 31st January 2018, 20:50   #48
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Originally Posted by nikhn View Post
Respectfully disagree here. I might be going OT but the Engine ECU is always connected to the ABS ECU and even though it might not impact working of ABS as a function, it will still cause issues in terms of signal input and output. There are few critical inputs coming from the Engine ECU as well and outputs going to the Engine ECU for certain functions. I know the KTM ABS is from Bosch and it is a 9.1MP version so it will give/take signals from Engine ECU.
.
Umm, nope not in the Ninja. Like I told earlier, I am not sure how it is in the KTM. But in the Ninja, the ABS has no connection to ECM. What are the critical inputs or outputs you say that gets shared between the ECM and ABS module in the KTM? I assume the ABS has an option to switch it off and hence that will have to be linked to the cluster and ECU. Apart from that, since the KTM has OBD support, you might have a CAN link running.

For the Ninja, lets just keep it simple. The ABS module is independent. Refer to the diagram below:

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Last edited by audioholic : 31st January 2018 at 21:00.
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Old 31st January 2018, 21:38   #49
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Umm, nope not in the Ninja. Like I told earlier, I am not sure how it is in the KTM. But in the Ninja, the ABS has no connection to ECM. What are the critical inputs or outputs you say that gets shared between the ECM and ABS module in the KTM? I assume the ABS has an option to switch it off and hence that will have to be linked to the cluster and ECU. Apart from that, since the KTM has OBD support, you might have a CAN link running.

For the Ninja, lets just keep it simple. The ABS module is independent. Refer to the diagram below:

Attachment 1722643
Ummm, pin 5 and 14 are for communication with engine ECU. This does not make it independent. I will confirm with a colleague of mine about the same with regards to how much it is dependent and whether it is critical. But from what I work on, I for sure know that the ABS unit is connected with E ECU.

For the KTMs, the RLM(rear lift mitigation) function is what requires input and output from the engine ECU.

The image looks like it's not a Bosch ABS. My bad.
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Old 31st January 2018, 22:31   #50
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Originally Posted by nikhn View Post
Ummm, pin 5 and 14 are for communication with engine ECU.
Again, it looks like you have assumed everything works the same. What is in the KTM would be different than what is here. The pins 5 and 14 are directed towards a Diagnostic terminal and not the ECU. The ABS module in the Ninja has its own diagnosis terminal which is a simple link which can be shorted to get the ABS light flashing to indicate error codes.
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Old 31st January 2018, 22:50   #51
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Again, it looks like you have assumed everything works the same. What is in the KTM would be different than what is here.
I'm sorry but looks like you're unable to understand what I'm saying. The discussion was about how it's not possible to retrofit the ABS unit onto the Ninja 300. The Engine ECU is different for ABS variant as compared to non ABS variant. You seem to have have answered your question yourself. I believe I'm unnecessarily overstepping here in your thread. No more discussions on this from my side.
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Old 1st February 2018, 09:45   #52
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Originally Posted by nikhn View Post
I'm sorry but looks like you're unable to understand what I'm saying. No more discussions on this from my side.
Probably it would be good we reach a conclusion. No harm in discussing it here. I have done enough homework on the Ninja with respect to its wiring and components.

Quote:
The discussion was about how it's not possible to retrofit the ABS unit onto the Ninja 300. The Engine ECU is different for ABS variant as compared to non ABS variant. You seem to have have answered your question yourself. I believe I'm unnecessarily overstepping here in your thread.
The ECU of both the EX300A(Non ABS) and EX300B(ABS) versions of the Ninja are the same. There are only a few region specific ECU variants due to emission norms. The same can be verified by part numbers. For India, the part number for the ECU is 21175-0773. The same is used in the Europe, Middle East and Africa in both ABS and Non ABS Ninjas. Hence, now let us not debate that though the part numbers are the same, the software inside will vary. The same ECU with US Specific software is 21175-0945 and for the state of California alone it is 21175-0946.

If you want to prove otherwise, you're welcome.
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Old 4th February 2018, 20:36   #53
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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After a 4km ride, he was in love with the engine and exhaust note. This is one feeling which totally bowled me over and I didnt expect him to like it so much. It was a priceless moment seeing the old biker in him coming back to life.
These lines bring tears of joy to my eyes
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Old 4th February 2018, 20:52   #54
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

I too sold off my 2015 KTM Duke 200, planning to buy the 2017 KTM Duke 390, but disappointed with the many issues cropping up with the new 390. Kawasaki Ninja 300 has always been the bike I wanted to acquire but even after the discounts, I find the on road price still on the higher side. Now I am waiting for the launch of the BS IV compliant Yamaha R3, BS IV compliant Honda CBR 250R and the Suzuki GSX 250R(hoping they introduced the mentioned bikes in India).

And yes, Congratulations on your purchase. And the bike looks a lot different in the new KRT edition graphics. It looks like the ZX10R.

Do post your niggles and issues if you have any. Because that's more important for a future prospective owner. Ride hard. Ride safe.
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Old 20th April 2018, 22:48   #55
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

Six months passed since I got the Ninja, and oh boy, it has been a superb time.

Unfortunately, I never got time to update the thread due to my busy schedule. After a series of trips, I found time this weekend to sit and review what has happened in this thread so that I wont repeat stuff. However, excuse if I tell the same old thing again

Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-img_1360.jpg

When I brought the Ninja, I did not realize that I would end up running errands in it. It would be an office commute along with some trips here and there. It turned out to be totally wrong. When I pick up the keys of the vehicle I want to go out to get some things from the shop, the Ninja gets priority over the Dio. To hell with storage space, etc. I carry a sling bag, load up the stuff in that and bring it back home. But that task of going to the shop and coming back in the Ninja is far more fun than going in the Dio.

When I brought the Ninja, I did not account for parking expenses, ie tips to the security guards wherever I leave the bike. This might not be a liter class superbike, but I am totally paranoid about my vehicles including my dio. The only difference here is that people hardly bother about a Dio, while there are some people who will show interest in the Ninja, though it is not a crowd puller. The main thing I am worried about is vandalism, especially on the beautifully painted fuel tank cover. Hence, if I park the bike anywhere, the place should either be within my sight, or the security guard around gets a good tip to ensure that the bike is untouched.

Leave the admiration, lets get to the serious part. Not sure where to start, but if we go on a timeline basis, here is how the last six months passed:

The bike as of today:
Odo currently stands at 2900kms only. After the first service, difference in engine smoothness was not very apparent. However, after a few recent rides to my Village, the already smooth and responsive engine has got even better. There was a small buzz at the footpegs at random instances and now it has completely gone.

Brought a bike cover:
The Ninja got three vacations for itself when I was abroad. Three weeks in November - December, three more in March, two weeks in April. It was parked covered during this time with a cover I purchased at Tirumala Pit stop a local store, who ripped me off by 1800 rupees for a regular silver cover, while I realised I could have got a tyvek cover elsewhere online for the same price. Since I was in a hurry and had searched enough, I purchased what they had. The plus side is that the quality of material is pretty decent and lightweight.

Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-img_2415.jpg

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During these periods, my dad used to start it once a week or so and had taken it around. However, in the most recent vacation, the bike was left unused for 15 days since dad also had travel plans. Today in the morning when I cranked it it sprung to life instantly, with the same cold idle speed and a slight bass note as usual. Left it to idle for a few minutes until the engine warmed up.

Experience with headlights:
The bi-xenon projector mod I did has been working well. Irrespective of the weather, ambient light and road condition, it is a bliss to ride the bike with these lights. Even on wet roads, the lights do a great job of spotting puddles and other surprises. On the highway, the range of the low beam is pretty good and the high beam can make any vehicle bow down in front of you. I will post a video sometime of the performance to show it better.

However, there are improvement areas which is a result of my jugaad during installation. I will explain in detail in a separate post. Mistakes are something anyone can make. But I value what I learn out of my mistakes.

Riding it in the city:
Since its blazing summer, I have reduced weekly office commute by bike to one day only, and the rest of the days by car. The bike has not shown any indications of overheating, except that I hear the fan more often than before. However, I ensure that I keep the revvs below 8k RPM and if there is any sudden burst of acceleration, I ride sedately later for a while. Apart from that, no issues or burnt thighs. In fact, I hardly feel any heat from the engine.

Riding it on the highway:
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Photo courtesy TBHPian Aseem Shekhar

I have not been a part of group rides except for one, with the TBHP boys(and girls too). It was a short breakfast ride and there were quite a few in number. Apart from that, the highway rides are mainly to my village and back, which I have done multiple times, almost thrice a week once in March. This really made a difference to the engine, more than the actual run in period. On the highway, I feel that the power is just what is required for our conditions. The bike effortlessly reaches and crosses the triple digit mark, and can stay there all day with sufficient power left to fire up further. My comfortable speed is a little north of 100, with short bursts when I am on stretches I know well. Especially when I have a damn Innova guy struggling at 100 to overtake me. This happened once when though I was on the left lane, a loaded innova came beside at around 110kmph. Naturally I left him to pass ahead. But later, our speeds were too similar for me to maintain a gap from him. And this guy was struggling to maintain momentum by cutting lanes. There came a median gap where both of us had to slow down, and then I showed him what a parallel twin at 10k+ RPM sounds like After that I did not spot him on my RVM again.

What annoys me of some drivers is that though they are not significantly faster than you, they want to get ahead. This is just stupidity. Either on my car or bike, if I cant overtake a car ahead within five seconds, I dont overtake that car. It makes no sense for anyone to overtake a car at 80kmph if they themselves cant get beyond 85kmph(for example). In the above case, I think I hardly took two seconds to whizz past that Innova after the junction was over.

The powerband and linear acceleration is what I just love out of this bike. Until it hits the revv limiter, it goes on and on.

Trips to the ASC:
After the first service, the issue with the handlebar oscillation was not gone. Adjustments of the steering cone whatever did not give complete resolution. That was when multiple N300 owners came up with this issue. Hence, a new cone set was offered under warranty and the same got replaced. Now the problem is history.

As I had spoken about the earlier recall, here is what it is all about:
Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-tank.jpg
If you noticed, then you are as sharp as the guys in IKM. I noticed it too, but had ignored the problem, ie the fuel cap lid was slightly bent in its locked position. To be precise, 1.5mm bent. For this, they offered a fix - But when I came to know that the entire lock set had to be changed as a part of the fix, I refused it since it was intensive work. Replacing the key cylinder, fuel tank cap, rear seat lock for a damn 1,5mm bend was just too much work and the main ignition cylinder had to be drilled off its rivets.

I suggested a simple workaround to Bhanu to replace only the tank cap, but retain the old locking mechanism into the new tank cap. He proposed the same to the guys in IKM and they agreed to it. Hence, the same was done today. Since the ASC is hardly 1.5kms from where I live, it is a boon to me and I drop in there whenever I feel like.

Every time I visit the ASC, there is something new, and now they are taking feedback from customers via an online portal. They also plan to offer pick up and drop for bikes and similar initiatives. No idea about the cost front though.
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Old 21st April 2018, 13:20   #56
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

Lessons from the headlight upgrade:
Even though I had ordered a RHD cutoff projector, due to a deal with the seller to ship it within a week, they messed up the choice and shipped me the LHD cutoff projector. Since I wanted the projector to be home during a certain holiday period, I contacted the seller and checked if he can expedite the shipping. He agreed to do so, and the package arrived at my doorstep within a week of ordering. However, I realised that it was LHD. Waiting another month for the RHD cutoff shield to arrive somehow disappointed me. Then I thought of the jugaad manner.

Some rough diagrams to indicate what was done:
Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-proj1.jpg

The cutoff shield is moved by a solenoid and the shield is machined in the appropriate shape to achieve the ____/-----. The rest of the boundaries are defined by a stationary metal plate.
Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-cutoffshieldand-limiter.jpg
Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-proj2.jpg

I dismantled the cutoff shield and filed it to reverse the cutoff line to ----\___
Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-proj3.jpg
Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-mod.jpg
Though in the diagram it looks huge, this was a mere 2mm filing which gave me the result I wanted. Hence, I did not actually look into how it would affect the big picture. Everything looked fine, until a few days when my eye caught the underlying flaw.
Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300-proj4.jpg

In an ideal setup, the hotspot of the beam should be parallel to the road. The cutoff line is in the middle of the hotspot, which results in only half the output in low beam. The upper part of the hotspot is used to enhance the range in high beam when the solenoid completely opens up. However, in mine, if I matched the cutoff line to be parallel to the road, most of the the hotspot would be aimed towards the road surface, while only a part of it would be aimed straight. The result of this is an unbelievable low beam, while the difference in high beam would be less. This is because when we switch to high beam, there will be just around 30% of remaining light that will be thrown onto the road compared to 50% for the original cutoff. For a layman who will notice my lights, they will never realize this. However, it is technically not right. Also, I would be compromising on the output in High beam though I dont use it at all, except to flash.

In order to fix this issue, I will work on a version 2 of this upgrade soon just to fulfill my OCD. But output wise, the current setup is the mother of all on the roads. It shows its strength even when riding in dusk, and needless to say about the output in pitch dark. Once when riding into the Kawa ASC, the building lights went off and people were gazing at the output. For this, I am awaiting new projectors(hopefully no misses this time) which I will install by removing the old projectors. Lets see what I will do with the old ones For this, I will shortly revert to stock halogen setup so that I have enough time to rebuild the projector assembly to its best form.

Another preference of mine was for 4300K bulbs, while the seller shipped something close to 4700-5000K bulbs. I am not a fan of this colour band as it gives a greenish tinge to the light. I would prefer the yellowish tinge on 4300K. Check the attached pic for reference. This is from an application in my phone which gives an approx value of colour temperature.:
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So the next iteration will come soon, with better projector and 4300K bulbs. That should be the most ideal upgrade for the lights on any bike. The twin projectors offer similar lighting as a car and the intensity and spread is something which no other form of lighting like LED aux lights or the like can offer, even at the same time not causing inconvenience to opposite vehicles. I totally hate the LED based aux lights which have become a norm on many bullets and other bikes these days, being used in traffic and on undivided roads.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:15   #57
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

Hi Audioholic
Long time no update on this thread.
Hope you can take out some time from your busy schedule and Ninja rides to update how is it going.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:08   #58
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Hi Audioholic
Long time no update on this thread.
Hope you can take out some time from your busy schedule and Ninja rides to update how is it going.
Sorry for that. Was not in town for most of the last year and hence, had totally missed on some updates. In that way, from last June till now I have hardly done a thousand kms which is quite slow due to all the travel, changes to office commute and so. But in general, the bike is doing pretty good. Some of the updates are as follows:
Like I told earlier, the V1 projector upgrade was stripped down and I built a V2 with the right projectors, 4300K bulbs and a completely black shroud without that chrome ring which was looking cheap. But from the last six months, this assembly is lying in a box and I never installed it.

S*** happens: In June 2018, I went on a breakfast ride and circuit around a few towns nearby. It was a superb 150km ride with the company of Suhas(Added_flavour) and Roshan. Everything went well on a Saturday morning and we thoroughly enjoyed the curvy roads in this route and we rode carefully. On my return I dropped into my Granys place which is close by to my home for a coffee. After the coffee break, I pulled the bike out of its parking position and had to turn it around. While doing this, I stepped on a jamun fruit which had fallen on the pavement and slipped royally. To save my leg and balance I had to let go of the bike and walked out. The bike did not fall down with force but I let go of it only when it banked more than 60 degrees or so. Until then I tried to resist. I was able to pick it up and the damage wasnt much. The fairing was intact but for a few scratches and most of these scratches were on the TBHP sticker and another sticker from Evotech which came with the radiator guard. The brake lever, handlebar, exhaust cowling had also got its share of scratches as well but they were all not visible and easily could have been buffed off.

I gave a call to Bhanu at the Kawasaki ASC asking him if the stickers on the fairing was available separately. He replied with an assuring YES and I thought that the whole thing was sorted. Casually, I asked him the cost of the fairing and he mentioned it as Rs. 52000. I did not believe this in the first moment since it was a plastic part and there was nothing more than plastic, stickers and paint. Bhanu also gave the option of claiming insurance, which I refused since it was too less of a damage to make a claim. My initial idea was to get the stickers replaced. Hence I went to the ASC in the afternoon to order them. Upon inspection, we found out that there was a slight bend in the handlebar too. I always had a doubt on this since the major weight of the bike was taken by the fairing and the handlebar. After seeing this, the push to go for Insurance became more stronger since the handlebar was around 6k. I was pretty disappointed after the drop so they tried their best to make me feel better. The result was just unbelievable. I gave a go-ahead for the insurance claim. Here is how it all happened:
  • 2PM: I go to the ASC and meet him. He quickly does the inspection and we have a long discussion about the downside of claiming insurance, and so on.
  • 230 PM: I agree for the claim and begin filling the form and provide documents
  • 3PM: I intimate the claim to the insurance company(Reliance General)
  • 315PM: They assign the surveyor and tell us that he would turn up on Monday since the next day was a holiday. I was apprehensive of leaving my bike over the weekend and also for the fact that I didn't want my family to think it was some major fall.
  • 330PM: The guys in the ASC prepare the estimate, and hold it, for a total cost of Rs. 90000 They would replace every single part with a small scuff(anyway they too wanted good revenues) and make the bike brand new.
  • 345PM: The ASC guys got in touch with the surveyor and convinced him to come the same day.
  • 4PM: The surveyor arrives and approves the claim
  • 430PM: The parts are ordered, and I get to bring back the bike home.
Everything happened within a flash, and I was really disappointed that even though I was careful during the entire ride and did not want a crash, this thing happened when the bike was stationary and right near my house. After the experience at the ASC, I felt far better and did realize that it better happened this way compared to having a fall while riding.
The price of parts at Kawasaki is no less than atrocious. Thankfully I had taken insurance with NDP so I hardly have to pay for anything, apart from salvage charges since the parts will be returned to me. Most of the parts are in stock except for the fairing since it has to be imported from Japan. I guess the import duties and taxes jack up the prices by double, since the fairing should hardly cost anything to produce. But speaking of the quality, its super tough since it could take the whole load of the bike and yet hardly get damaged.

The parts came within a week from Thailand and my bike was back in its glory. All the replaced parts were handed over to me and many are good enough to be used in the future barring the slight scratches.

After this, I left to Germany for close to three months and the bike was lying parked all the time except that once a week my dad would start it and idle it for a while. He took it out for a spin a few times and was grinning as if he was some 20 years younger. I returned in December and since then, have taken it out only on one ride and a few trips to office. Recently I discovered that the speedometer glass had a crack. I am not sure how this happened but to my fortune, only the outer case which costs 3k can be replaced and the entire speedometer assembly neednt be replaced. Ordered the part and it came in two days. Need to go and get it replaced. Cost of the new speedo is upwards of 40k.


Barring all these, the bike is absolute fun. Be it an errand, trip to office or a breakfast ride, it has got a grin on my face everytime I use it and I feel the money is worth it. Sadly, I am not putting the bike to good use. I hope to do so in the near future at least.

Last edited by audioholic : 22nd January 2019 at 11:17.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:26   #59
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Casually, I asked him the cost of the fairing and he mentioned it as Rs. 52000.

I came across this article today which you might find useful.


Kawasaki Ninja 300 spares price slashed by up to Rs 47k Owners rejoice


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Since it is just a cosmetic part, the service centre could have given you the option to buy the fairing of the 2019 Ninja instead. Especially if the price difference was going to be 10x!
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:38   #60
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Default Re: Double graduation - From a Honda Dio to a Kawasaki Ninja 300

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I came across this article today which you might find useful.

Since it is just a cosmetic part, the service centre could have given you the option to buy the fairing of the 2019 Ninja instead. Especially if the price difference was going to be 10x!
The My2019 bike doesnt come in the KRT livery. Hence, the fairings will not have the same color scheme. Hence even in the future it would not make a difference for me I still end up paying a bomb for the parts.

The spare part prices broke news only recently but I was aware of it a few weeks back itself, when I was browsing through the dealer parts portal in the ASC. Maybe with respect to wear and tear parts I will benefit, but I have the option of importing such parts. For example, instead of going for locally produced brake pads, I got Brembo sintered pads for 2k. This puts the pricing in between the earlier prices and now.

The cost of spare parts were never a huge issue for me since I had decided well before buying the bike that I would do the maintenance myself after the warranty period. This is just an added bonus Discussion on that here https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post4531555 (A Close Look: The 2019 Kawasaki Ninja 300 ABS)
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