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Old 8th June 2018, 11:22   #301
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

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Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
I am in the market to buy a decent motorcycle, had zeroed in on the Himalayan. I mite just about wait for some more time and see how the Interceptor fairs. Rumors have been floating around of a high capacity Himalayan but I dont expect that to come out not before 2020.
I'm seeing more and more Himalayans up here around Manali. People seem to like them, and vII appears to have got a lot of the issues sorted. As with the rest of us, hoping the twin won't require a sorted vII.

-Eric
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Old 18th June 2018, 16:03   #302
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Default RE showcases Two more 650 builds while delaying actual launch

Well, it has been seven months since the Twins were unveiled and now it turns out that the launch has been further delayed, even in the international markets. For those of us who hoped that RE might be turning around their reputation, here comes the reality check. In the words of Donald Trump its 'SAD!'.

Apparently, the bikes are still 'under development'. Then why unveil, i ask (while screaming internally). Details here.

Meanwhile, here are two custom bikes based on the 650 Twin platform.

Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine-royalenfieldatwheelswaves20181.jpg

Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine-rohinithecustomisedcontinentalgt650twin.jpg
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Old 18th June 2018, 17:45   #303
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Default Re: RE showcases Two more 650 builds while delaying actual launch

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Originally Posted by bsenroy View Post
Well, it has been seven months since the Twins were unveiled and now it turns out that the launch has been further delayed, even in the international markets. For those of us who hoped that RE might be turning around their reputation, here comes the reality check. In the words of Donald Trump its 'SAD!'.

Apparently, the bikes are still 'under development'. Then why unveil, i ask (while screaming internally).
Well it's the damn if you do and damn if you don't scenario!

People have been asking RE to progress from the classic Bullet platform for decades now! The plan for a twin cylinder has been in the pipeline since 2009, so having to show some progress is long overdue. Revealing the two concepts was the right thing to do in order to quell cries for more powerful Enfields.

It's not even 4 months since the reveal, so there's plenty of time before the final product comes to market. No Indian manufacturer has experience in designing and manufacturing a twin cylinder motorcycle, this is a first for the country. There is nothing wrong in taking time. No one will remember a delayed launch in a few years, but if they come out with a half baked product the scars will remain forever!
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Old 18th June 2018, 18:19   #304
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Default Re: RE showcases Two more 650 builds while delaying actual launch

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There is nothing wrong in taking time. No one will remember a delayed launch in a few years, but if they come out with a half baked product the scars will remain forever!
And of all bike makers, RE would certainly know this after the rather horrid experience they have had with the Himalayan. I am saving up money for the Interceptor, and despite the initial niggles that are bound to be present, I am still willing to take the risk when the bike gets launched as I somehow feel they now have the knowledge (hired engineers from Triumph) and also the wisdom (all the way from the Himalayas ) to handle this new launch well.
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Old 18th June 2018, 19:36   #305
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Default Re: RE showcases Two more 650 builds while delaying actual launch

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Originally Posted by bsenroy View Post
Well, it has been seven months since the Twins were unveiled and now it turns out that the launch has been further delayed, even in the international markets. For those of us who hoped that RE might be turning around their reputation, here comes the reality check.

Apparently, the bikes are still 'under development'. Then why unveil, i ask (while screaming internally).
From what limited information I have, the engine generates so much heat that the spark plugs melt. RE does not want to use liquid cooling. Maybe to keep the costs down.
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Old 19th June 2018, 08:54   #306
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Default Re: RE showcases Two more 650 builds while delaying actual launch

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Originally Posted by nikhn View Post
From what limited information I have, the engine generates so much heat that the spark plugs melt. RE does not want to use liquid cooling. Maybe to keep the costs down.
Heating has always been an issue with the older 500cc Enfields, not sure of the UCE.
They should know it better and add liquid cooling rather than avoid it to cut costs for the end customer or themselves.
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Old 19th June 2018, 11:31   #307
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

Maybe they should have included the liquid cooling from the start of development. Adding a liquid cooling on the bikes today is NOT going to be an option, as we all know it requires some massive changes to the engine design, followed by a repeat of all the testing work they have done- pushing the bike's launch by a few years.

While they have hired lot of talent from Triumph R&D centre in UK, I wonder if they would possess the know-how of a large air cooled twin, as Triumph stopped making them many years ago.

But what puzzles me is that a motor with a moderate compression ratio of 9.5 is having such heating related issues

Last edited by aravind.anand : 19th June 2018 at 11:42.
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Old 19th June 2018, 12:19   #308
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

My 500cc air cooled thunderbird never used to heat up even in rush hour traffic.

The liquid cooled Duke 390 used to heat up like crazy. The 2017 model.

For that matter, I wonder how people ride the Ducati 800cc air-cooled engines. Would be difficult to manage in the city.
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Old 19th June 2018, 14:55   #309
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Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
While they have hired lot of talent from Triumph R&D centre in UK, I wonder if they would possess the know-how of a large air cooled twin, as Triumph stopped making them many years ago.
The Bonneville's were air cooled till 2015, so its not too far off

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Originally Posted by farhadtarapore View Post
For that matter, I wonder how people ride the Ducati 800cc air-cooled engines. Would be difficult to manage in the city.
The 865 cc Bonneville's were air cooled and they are quite manageable in the city with respect to heating

Last edited by ampere : 20th June 2018 at 08:41. Reason: back to back posts merged
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Old 19th June 2018, 19:18   #310
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

If you guys want to experience what heat is , ride the Harley davidson street 750 - that thing will roast your legs even on the highway . I have no clue how they sell that machine in open market ...

The ducati 800cc bikes heat up to similar extent as a duke 390 ( the old one ) - this is as per a current scrambler owner who upgraded from a 390 .
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Old 19th June 2018, 20:44   #311
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Default Re: RE showcases Two more 650 builds while delaying actual launch

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Originally Posted by nikhn View Post
From what limited information I have, the engine generates so much heat that the spark plugs melt.
Would like to know more, if you can help.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 20th June 2018, 00:21   #312
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

I had to bite my tongue when I read nikhn's comment about melting spark plugs.

Simply put, spark plugs don't melt regardless of how hot the engine gets and whoever suggested to him that they do, made one of the dumbest comments in my opinion that I've heard in a long time.

It's the kind of comment made up by someone wishing to say something bad about a product who jumps to an incorrect conclusion to support their negative thoughts and then spouts his "knowledge" as fact.

Liquid cooling has several good things to say about it such as it is better at removing heat from small restricted areas. The water jacket and coolant dampen out noise.
The engines physical size can be reduced but when you add in the size of the radiator the size of the system is greater than an air cooled engine.

Air cooling on the other hand doesn't dampen noise as well and localized areas inside the engine can become very hot. By using aluminum sleeved with steel for the cylinder, an aluminum crankcase and cylinder head much of this localized heat can be dealt with.

Air cooling removes the need to worry about the coolant freezing of overheating or disappearing from leaks.

There is no need for a water pump, thermostat or any ofthe hoses associated with liquid cooling.
Because of the simplicity of air cooling, the total engine/cooling system can be lighter.

IMO, about the only time liquid cooling has any major benefit is when the motorcycle is stopped with the engine running such as, waiting for stops in city riding.
Then, the cooling fan can help to keep the engine cool.

Air cooled engines are designed for a limited amount of this stop/go traffic but they are clearly at a disadvantage for long waits.

As a side note, a ducted fan could be added to an air cooled machine and I know this would be done if there was any serious need for it.

Anyway, that's my thoughts for the day.

Last edited by ArizonaJim : 20th June 2018 at 00:23.
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Old 20th June 2018, 05:52   #313
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
I had to bite my tongue when I read nikhn's comment about melting spark plugs.

Simply put, spark plugs don't melt regardless of how hot the engine gets and whoever suggested to him that they do, made one of the dumbest comments in my opinion that I've heard in a long time.

It's the kind of comment made up by someone wishing to say something bad about a product who jumps to an incorrect conclusion to support their negative thoughts and then spouts his "knowledge" as fact.
I don't know how you're claiming it as a matter of fact that spark plugs can never melt. A simple google search for spark plugs melting is all you needed to do to be making informed comments. I don't have the best of technical knowledge in this area, but from what I gather from googling for this issue is that this can happen when a car engine overheats.

I know we're talking about bikes here, but I fail to see any reason why this cannot happen here as well. Could you please let me know why you think a bike's spark plugs never melt even if the engine gets extremely hot? What makes a bike's engine so vastly different from a car engine that this issue cannot happen in bike's?
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Old 20th June 2018, 07:17   #314
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
I had to bite my tongue when I read nikhn's comment about melting spark plugs.

Simply put, spark plugs don't melt regardless of how hot the engine gets and whoever suggested to him that they do, made one of the dumbest comments in my opinion that I've heard in a long time.
I'm not sure if this is going off topic but anyways let me just put it up here. I am unable to put up my source since it's somewhat confidential. I would rather trust them since they are more closely related to the engine development of the RE 650/750cc series.

On a side note, spark plugs can melt. It's not funny. There are cases all over the internet. Even possible reasons are mentioned with one of them being insufficient cooling. Your wonderful explanation of air cooling vs liquid cooling, with its partially complete advantages and disadvantages is surely well known to RE or anyone else in this forum for that matter. No debate about it. Ultimately it's for RE to decide. I am not demeaning RE or their bikes here. Infact one of the source owns a RE and loves it.

Also , sharing a link for people who would like to expand their "knowledge".
Spark plug Melting and it's possible causes
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:08   #315
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Default Re: Royal Enfield unveils Interceptor & Continental 650 with new twin-cylinder engine

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Originally Posted by ArizonaJim View Post
...
.
.
Simply put, spark plugs don't melt..
.
.
Yup! That's what I thought. Everybody knows that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhn View Post
..
.
On a side note, spark plugs can melt.
.
Also , sharing a link for...
.
Holy cow

Ok so they can melt. When melting plugs were first mentioned by @nikhn I got a mental image of one melted like a wax candle and naturally thought that the alleged problem with the RE twins was heresay. However the link he has given has made things clear and a Google search brought up some interesting images. Thanks for that info. It has somewhat dulled my enthusiasm for being one of the first RE twin owners, though.

@ArizonaJim, I recently started to ride a CL500 and have found your posts very useful but I think you went off the mark with this one.
RE has understandably delayed the launch even at the cost of ticking off their fanbase. It's better that they solve the problem and it remains an unsubstantiated rumour on an automotive forum than pull another 'Himalayan' blunder.

Last edited by Roy.S : 20th June 2018 at 09:16.
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