[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Pratzgh1

Coming from a Pulsar 220 Dts-i, I wish not to downgrade, but make a lateral transition. Have been using projector lamp on the Pulsar and this motorcycle looks amazing but fails to deliver appropriate illumination. Another query, has anyone installed a windshield for highway rides? If yes, could you post some pics or guide on how to install one? Also, a hard seat would not be a concern some years ago but now I want my ride to be fairly comfortable than the motorcycle I am transitioning from. Will keep the research on and take at least 2 test rides before I make my decision.

Ok, I hadn't read that you ride a P-220.

On our rides, we have a very talented rider on a P-220.

> The gears are taller on the P-220 and it would be hard to lose a P-220 rider if you are on a FZ-25, infact, at over good speeds [or near top speeds], the P-220 might have an edge.

> Headlamps are better on the P-220 but the ones on FZ-25 are ok & do the job. I anyways stick with <85 speeds at night.

Rest at almost all places, the FZ-25 is better, after sampling a KTM I realized that the suspension of the FZ-25 isn't firm but it is not wallowy either. Its ok and provides confidence, brakes are good as well.

In short, as far as only performance goes, the FZ-25 *WILL* not feel like an upgrade to be honest. Just that, it is overall a better bike to ride.

[Samba]

Update-

Bike has crossed the 1000 km mark. The Motul 7100 took around 100 km to settle down. Now the engine feels more refined and rev happy specially on the highways.

No niggles to be reported.

Getting a fuel efficiency of around 30km/L. It has dropped down due to more runs on congested city roads than highways.

The only thing I am not liking much is the vibration of the headlight. On rough roads the beam vibrates a lot. I checked with few other Fz25 owners and some of them agreed that they are facing the same. It will be great if Fz25 owners from Team Bhp can confirm this.

Else am loving the bike. Am enjoying every ride on this bike. Its an awesome street bike which is equally capable of doing highway runs too.





A small ordeal with the dealer, solved by Yamaha motors-

I bought the bike from Rudra Auto, the owner is a friend of mine. Rudra Auto is a sub dealer of SNC Yamaha in Howrah. SNC is the main dealer. So after 3 months of owning the bike I was not getting the registration and papers. I called my friend at Rudra Auto several times. He told me the RTO agent of SNC is delaying the job. I had a talk with that agent and he gave me all nonsense explanations and promised to get the work done in next 48 hours. As usual he failed. I took the contact number of a higher authority at SNC Yamaha from my friend and called him.

I explained that guy the whole situation. He again promised me, he will solve the matter in 48 hours and get back to me. After 72 hours, I Whatsapped him - no reply; I called him - he disconnects.

That's when I lose my cool. I straight away put a complaint to Yamaha motors. The very next day morning I got a call from Yamaha Motors. I explained to them the whole situation and they provided me a complaint number and asked for 6 days.

I kept quiet and called none of the dealers. On the 5th day I received a call from SNC Yamaha and was told, my bikes registration number and papers all are ready, so I should take off the complaint. I waited for a day till I get them in my hand & then I took off the complaint.

Again I got a call from Yamaha motors whether am satisfied or not or whether am taking off the complaint on dealers request. Once they were convinced that am satisfied, they closed the complaint.

Kudos to Yamaha motors for taking these complaints seriously and resolving them with in the stipulated time frame. Day before yesterday I went to the RTO and got the HSRP (Security) plates fitted.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Samba

The Motul 7100 took around 100 km to settle down. Now the engine feels more refined and rev happy specially on the highways.

Personally I'm not a fan of Motul and for a motorcycle like the FZ25 which runs a lazy compression I would suggest you run a cheaper reputable mineral oil and change at 2k intervals rather than stick with synthetics.

Used to be a fan of Motul myself until experienced showed me otherwise, below is my maintenance record for my Bajaj Pulsar 220, I run her hard as she has a 50L top box and 40T at rear(stock is 36T);



Also leaving this here, hope you find the info useful.

There are two styles or types of oiling to consider here. Some engines have the engine oil separate from the transmission and/or clutch oil. Air cooled BMW Boxer twins are an example. Your engine oil will last a bit longer if it is only lubing the engine. Meshing gears break down the oil quicker than spinning bearings and the clutch adds its own contaminates too. Most Japanese bikes have common engine/trans oil systems. So if your engine oil also lubricates the transmission and clutch... change the oil every 1000 miles. If it just lubes the engine you can go a bit longer. Lots of clean fresh oil will make an engine last a long time. I see very few oil related failures. What I do see a lot of is LACK of oil failures. Check the oil every time you start the engine. No fool'n... every time... without fail... always.

While you are at it oil your rear chain too... EVERY TIME YOU RIDE.

Now you ask what type of oil? I have never been a big fan of the motorcycle specific oils. They cost a lot of money and the only tests I've seen show that they don't hold their viscosity any better then regular oils. I've always used automotive oils. The problem now seems to be the new SJ and SL oils. The lighter weights of oil, 10W-30 and lighter, are now formulated to be "Energy Conserving".

We don't want this These energy saving oils have additives that may cause clutch slipping and other problems. They are also short on additives that bike engines need like Phosphorous. These oils will have a "Starburst" on them and will say "Energy Conserving".Starburst Right now the heavier oils like 10W-40, 20W-50, 15W-40, and 15W-50 aren't labeled energy conserving and should be all right to use. If your bike needs one of the lighter oils, you could use a light diesel rated oil with a C designation like CG or CH. The diesel oils are not required to be "Energy Conserving". They have come out with a MA and MB designation, but I don't have a lot of info about them right now. Bottom line... A 10W-40 or 20W-50, automotive oil with no "Starburst" symbol, and no "Energy Conserving" labelThis Ones OK !, should be just fine. If you are really worried, get a motorcycle specific oil. However, they do cost a lot more.

I don't have any experience with synthetic oils because...
1. None of my customers want to pay that much for oil.
2. I don't want to pay that much for my own oil.
3. I like frequent oil changes.

As I said before, change your oil often. Now, this always seems to be a big controversy. I don't know why. Seems a no brainer to me. All the tests I've read find that the oil breaks down, loosing viscosity, as the miles pile up. Add in all the byproducts from combustion... acids... moisture... whatever, and you got a mix that is steadily going down hill. Now, your supposed to leave that in your engine for 5-10,000 miles so you can save a few bucks on oil? No way am I gonna do that. I ride a BMW 750 air cooled twin. When I let the oil go too long the breather valve starts to chirp at me. I put in new oil and it stops. It just got a bit thin. This happens at around 1500 to 2000 miles. I have a Pontiac 6000 car. At around 3-4000 miles one or two of my hydraulic tappets don't want to pump up, so I get a bit of tappet noise. Oil's getting a bit thin. I put new oil in and it goes away. You pick'en up on what I'm saying? Change your bike's oil at 1000 miles and your car's at 2000 miles. If you are only riding a few hundred miles a year or less, change it at least once a year. Before putting it up for winter, if possible.

Actually, I don't know why I bothered to write this page on oil. Nobody ever listens. The season has just started (2001) and already a 1999 bike has come in dead... piston pin welded to the rod... no oil... $1,200 to fix. Another one this year. I pulled the oil drain plug on a lawnmower and NOT ONE DROP OF OIL CAME OUT. Filled it up with oil and got it started... ran just fine... no funny noises or noth'in... go figure .

As always...

Source: Dan's Motorcycle Repair Course - The DIYers Bible

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Used to be a fan of Motul myself until experienced showed me otherwise, below is my maintenance record for my Bajaj Pulsar 220, I run her hard as she has a 50L top box and 40T at rear(stock is 36T);

You ride a Pulsar? Please try Valvoline 4T Premium and remember to update me on the outcome. I used it on my P-180 from '04 to '07 [P-180 V1 got it on 4th Nov '03] and simply loved it. No oil came close. The P-220 rider I spoke about a couple of posts earlier, swears by this oil as well.

I myself am not a fan of branded/expensive engine oils, used to, but now I stick with manufacturer specific engine oil, just that I drain it in shorter interval than specified.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Personally I'm not a fan of Motul and for a motorcycle like the FZ25 which runs a lazy compression I would suggest you run a cheaper reputable mineral oil and change at 2k intervals rather than stick with synthetics.

Used to be a fan of Motul myself until experienced showed me otherwise, below is my maintenance record for my Bajaj Pulsar 220, I run her hard as she has a 50L top box and 40T at rear(stock is 36T);

Attachment 1744273

Also leaving this here, hope you find the info useful.



Source: Dan's Motorcycle Repair Course - The DIYers Bible

Just a few things.

First, you mention oil life in your table. On what basis did you replace the oil? I presume the decision was subjective (engine feels rough).

Second, I have seen Dan's website. As interesting and useful as it is, some of information is outdated. No modern bike requires an oil change every 1000 miles (1600 km). It's not because engine technologies have improved (they have), it's because oil technologies have improved by leaps and bounds over the last few decades. My Pulsar 200 ns can go 5000 km between oil changes on Motul 5100 without feeling rough. This is with somewhat hard running. The same isn't possible with mineral oil.

But I do agree that super high quality oil for a commuter bike run at moderate load and speed, is overkill. The oil ends up being replaced well before it's near the end of its life. So money down the drain.

[MadRasTan4986]

Originally Posted by Samba

[b]
Once they were convinced that am satisfied, they closed the complaint.

Kudos to Yamaha motors for taking these complaints seriously and resolving them with in the stipulated time frame.

This is really amazing to see this from a manufacturer. Really hats off to Yamaha. This is how they can definitely retain customers in the long run.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Just a few things.

First, you mention oil life in your table. On what basis did you replace the oil? I presume the decision was subjective (engine feels rough).

Wasn't subjective though ideally it should be, some tour when some race whereas some commute, so its subjective at the least.

My personal preference is 2k interval, experimented with longer intervals as per recommendation from Motul enthusiasts(their reviews were just out of this world), though it didn't work out well, even before the motorcycle came anywhere near the 2k mark the motor would heat up pretty bad and the reason was evident on draining, considerable drop in quantity along with visible metal dust, thought it would go away after the 10k mark but didn't hence why you see me testing a different oil and then going back to Motul and repeating the process until I finally gave up on Motul.



And you cant blame me if I'm an unsatisfied customer for blaming a product that didn't perform half as good as alternate products that cost only a fraction of what Motul costs.

Motul's are notorious for accelerated wear and vanishing without a trace, and its not limited to their Synthetics, even their mineral range isn't half decent, I've tried everything in their 4T range some more consistently than the rest and they've disappointed without fail, mostly due to long distance riding at a stretch.

Though in Motul's defense they're the preferred choice to extract maximum performance from a motorcycle if not longevity.

Second, I have seen Dan's website. As interesting and useful as it is, some of information is outdated. No modern bike requires an oil change every 1000 miles (1600 km). It's not because engine technologies have improved (they have), it's because oil technologies have improved by leaps and bounds over the last few decades. My Pulsar 200 ns can go 5000 km between oil changes on Motul 5100 without feeling rough. This is with somewhat hard running. The same isn't possible with mineral oil.

Bro, I'll try my best to clarify things by making it as simple as possible, In Honda's stables for the exact same engines the international manuals recommend 1k miles change interval whereas the Indian manuals recommend 2k km's, the reason is simple as the figures are just benchmarks, it makes sense to recommend change at 1000 miles instead of 1242.742 miles on a motorcycle with a mph speedometer console.

The figure Dan recommends is textbook for motorcycles with around 1L sump's. This has nothing to do with technology used either in the motorcycle nor the oil, the general thumb rule is that for a 1L sump you change your oil at around 1000 miles/2000 km's depending on convenience.

As for keeping an oil till 5000 km's on motor with 1L sump doesn't make much sense, for the same amount spent you could use 2 bottles of regular oil and change at 2.5k intervals and your motorcycle would be happy, but it's not my bike so that's up to you.

Just know that the only reason you do not realize the damage caused by your habit is because you have an external oil filter. Experienced DIY'ers who've worked with several engines can confirm this.

Or you can take Bajaj's 10k change interval for example, if you go with Bajaj's recommendation then the interval to clean centrifugal filter is 10k intervals, whereas if you change at around 2k intervals your centrifugal filter would barely have considerable residue by the time its time for a clutch change.

But I do agree that super high quality oil for a commuter bike run at moderate load and speed, is overkill. The oil ends up being replaced well before it's near the end of its life. So money down the drain.

Not really since I doubt commuters would or can be ridden at moderate speeds on the highways, say you're commuting around 700 km's from one state to the other, a performance motorcycle will undergo less wear and tear compared to a commuter motorcycle, cause a commuter at red-line would be doing 100kmph on the highways whereas a P220 or a FZ25 on stock gearing would just barely be engaged, learnt this the hard way with Motul 300v and my then Bajaj Discover 100 4G, under the 1k mark oil started burning and by the time I got home the bike was reeking of oil, so had to change the burnt oil at around 1.3~1.4k on the odo, the oil cost me 1150 per bottle.

Originally Posted by Sheel

You ride a Pulsar? Please try Valvoline 4T Premium and remember to update me on the outcome. I used it on my P-180 from '04 to '07 [P-180 V1 got it on 4th Nov '03] and simply loved it. No oil came close. The P-220 rider I spoke about a couple of posts earlier, swears by this oil as well.

I myself am not a fan of branded/expensive engine oils, used to, but now I stick with manufacturer specific engine oil, just that I drain it in shorter interval than specified.

Have considerable experience with the Valvoline, most recent being on my Golden Quadrilateral ride on my Bajaj CT100B, wonderful oil but not a decent buy at 350/- per liter, as Shell AX5 is available for 270/- on Amazon, got 3 bottles!



Having belted the life our of the first 4 oils(Shell HX3 was used immediately after the ride ended) in the list running around the country I can say that the Castrol provided the most performance as the acceleration was spectacular and the grunting was very audible but that is due to it being comparatively lighter, which was also evident on draining.

The Valvoline was the heaviest, the motor was gliding(not grunting) even while almost maxing out the speedometer on the highways.

Finally the Shell AX5 performed right around the middle, not much compromise on acceleration but at the same time the motor was grunty at wide open, but definitely a decent choice considering the price.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

...

Bro, I'll try my best to clarify things by making it as simple as possible, In Honda's stables for the exact same engines the international manuals recommend 1k miles change interval whereas the Indian manuals recommend 2k km's, the reason is simple as the figures are just benchmarks, it makes sense to recommend change at 1000 miles instead of 1242.742 miles on a motorcycle with a mph speedometer console.

The figure Dan recommends is textbook for motorcycles with around 1L sump's. This has nothing to do with technology used either in the motorcycle nor the oil, the general thumb rule is that for a 1L sump you change your oil at around 1000 miles/2000 km's depending on convenience.

As for keeping an oil till 5000 km's on motor with 1L sump doesn't make much sense, for the same amount spent you could use 2 bottles of regular oil and change at 2.5k intervals and your motorcycle would be happy, but it's not my bike so that's up to you.

Just know that the only reason you do not realize the damage caused by your habit is because you have an external oil filter. Experienced DIY'ers who've worked with several engines can confirm this.
...

Which Honda bike are you referring to? A water cooled single cylinder like the cbr250r or even a BMW g310r have a 10,000 km oil change interval. Even a high performance sports bike like the CBR1000rr has a similar interval with only 3 litres of oil. These are all for bikes for abroad.

Motul 5100 costs less than Rs. 500 per litre. For the performance and life it gives, I think it's a very good deal. It's not just the cost of oil that needs to be counted, is also the filter and the time.

Please explain why you think an external oil filter is bad. It's possible to see what is getting filtered out of the oil since any large particles get stuck on the outside of the filter.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Which Honda bike are you referring to? A water cooled single cylinder like the cbr250r or even a BMW g310r have a 10,000 km oil change interval. Even a high performance sports bike like the CBR1000rr has a similar interval with only 3 litres of oil. These are all for bikes for abroad.

I was referring to the CRF and CB series and their Indian counterparts, please find below a snap from the factory service manual indicating maintenance intervals, this shows 1000 km's change interval as the manual I have is for the non-street legal variant, the street legal variant has intervals recommended at 2000 km's but I don't seem to have a copy of it on my shared drive;



Even before the CBR's hit the market the automotive climate was shifting towards greener emissions as a result of which Honda's were the first to drop the usual 20W40 grade and went for more emission friendly and lighter 10W30 grade oils, later on followed by the extended drain periods, both of which are strategies opted by car manufacturers popularly Volkswagen as means to advertise lower maintenance and cost of ownership, the topic is highly debatable.

Advocating against extended oil changes:

What is the ideal oil change interval?

The Truth about 20,000 Mile Oil Changes - Myth Busted

Advocating for extended oil changes:

3000 Mile Oil Change Myth

Now ignoring that if you still choose to believe in manufacturer recommendation then also be aware that the more recent API grades come with lesser Zinc and Phosphorous content i.e ZDDP.

If you still choose to keep that latest API SL oil for 5000 km's in your 1L sump then be my guest but do note that you've been fairly warned.

Motul 5100 costs less than Rs. 500 per litre. For the performance and life it gives, I think it's a very good deal. It's not just the cost of oil that needs to be counted, is also the filter and the time.

Again, using my better judgement I'd rather stick with diesel grade 20W50 if I have to and change at 2k(250~270 per bottle for Shell/Mobil1) intervals than use Motul 5100 and change at 5k intervals.

Please explain why you think an external oil filter is bad. It's possible to see what is getting filtered out of the oil since any large particles get stuck on the outside of the filter.

An external oil filter is always the better bet if you ask me, the reason I mentioned a centrifugal filter is because the metal residue gets collected and is clearly visible so you get a real view of what has been happening inside the engine. Where as with removable paper filters you just assume that all is well and go ahead with manufacturer recommendations.

Cheers.

[Bhodrolok]

I am looking at the FZ25 seriously but the lack of ABS is a big blocker. Also my experience with Laxmi Yamaha & Orion Yamaha in Bangakire was not good. I used to own a R15 v1.

Can someone guide me to a decent dealership in Bangalore?

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by Bhodrolok

I am looking at the FZ25 seriously but the lack of ABS is a big blocker. Also my experience with Laxmi Yamaha & Orion Yamaha in Bangakire was not good. I used to own a R15 v1.

Can someone guide me to a decent dealership in Bangalore?

I got my R15 from Bangalore Wheels Rajajinagar. I have found their service advisors to be better informed than the couple of other centers which I had tried for servicing.

[Samba]

Discovered this new feature a week back! When the fuel was low, the below display came up in the meter console. It showed how many kilometers am riding once the last fuel bar starts blinking. I generally avoid riding with low fuel as it creates more pressure on the fuel pump.



After refueling when i reset this display, it vanished automatically. Its quite a nice touch, specially when the meter console lacks a DTE.

On the fiber panels i noticed few swirl marks and some faint scratches. So gave my bike for a Teflon coating yesterday. It looked like a good quality wax. But at the end the work done was satisfactory. I was charged Rs 300 for this. The faint scratches and the swirl marks are almost invisible and the bike is shinning like never before!
The paint feels more smooth now. Lets see, for how many days does this last. I wont mind spending Rs 300 every 6 months when i give my bike for the routine general service to retain this shine.

Few pics after the coat.







Regarding the bike, it has approximately covered 1300 km till now. My running is really low. No niggles to be reported.

Once the run-in period was over, i pushed the bike a bit on the highway. It was a pleasure riding this bike, solo on the highways.

Few days back i compared the speedometer readings of my bike with a GPS app from my phone. I have rechecked the authenticity of this app in various occasion's and its more or less trustworthy. The bikes speedometer showed an error of approximately 7%. The speedometer shows 7% more than the actual speed.

Faced one puncture till now. The tubeless tire helped me to ride till the tire shop and get it repaired!

The first puncture is always special ! -

[Samba]

2,000 km up and second service is done.

As i mentioned earlier the bike is sparingly used, hence the odometer increases quite lazily.

On the 6 months/5000km service just the general check up's were done. Since the 1st service, the bike has done around 1100km and the Motul 7100 is holding up pretty well, so no oil change was done this time. Just the regular check ups & cleaning the bike. No niggles or problems were reported either.

Few observation's till now-

Traces of rust can be seen on the Chain. May be due to my negligence of not lubing it on time. Have applied WD40, then cleaned it thoroughly and sprayed the Motul Chain Lube. This was noticed 2-3 months back. Till then am lubing the chain more frequently and now even more in monsoon. Thankfully the traces of rust has not increased.

Attaching a pic for ref.



Mileage -

For my daily use with pillion in town traffic the bike returns around 30km/L.

On highway with speed around -
70km/hr = 42-44 km/L
80km/hr = 38 - 40 km/L
100 km/hr = 34-36 km/L
110 km/hr = 30-32 km/L
120 km/hr or above = less than 30 km/L

After the 1,500km mark bike has become more smooth. There are no unwanted vibration's. Slight vibration creeps in around 120km/hr. The gear shifting is smooth too.

Just love the handling of this street bike. Its light and very well balanced. Gives a feel that the bike is always in control and you can do whatever you want to do.

Bike is fast till 125km/hr. Above that the progress is slow and top-speed is lesser than the competition. I generally do not ride that fast. On highways i enjoy the pickup and the torque of the bike. It generally requires very less down shifts unless its ridden too aggressively. I just love riding this bike on open roads.

The rear brake pads at 2000 km mark looks good with good bite.

The flat profile tyres restrict much from leaning and is good only on tarred road. Its horrible on slush and just okay on wet roads. Few days back i rode around 40km on the highway in heavy rain. The grip was okay and i never felt any nervousness. For enthusiast riders a tyre upgrade is recommended.

Got used-to with the poor high-beam. With pillion the reach increases a bit further than riding solo.

The highest i rode this bike in a day in approximately three hours was around 205 km. It was with pillion. My pillion rider never complained about the pillion comfort. He was happy. Riders comfort was good too.

The Teflon coating done last time has held up quite well for the past 6 months. Will get it done again, once the monsoon is over.

Riding on a rainy day spoils the Shirt/Tshirt of your pillion rider. I have not opened the rear mud guard, still this happened!

Regarding this purchase after selling my trusted KarizmaR, am happy with the bike till now.

Lastly few pics from a Sunday meet with few Bhpian friends.

[SVK Rider]

Good thing that you are using the chain lube more frequently.
I think the rusting happened due to less frequent lube application only. However it's best to keep the chain lubed after any rain ride.
One more point I use TVS chain lube which costs around 380-400 from wellington which I felt is better than motul in terms of lube and sustainability and also anti rust property.
Will share my chain picture and lube bottle picture once I get to capture them.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by Samba

Lastly few pics from a Sunday meet with few Bhpian friends.

Did you happen to ask the driver of the truck where the G9 locomotive frame was coming from? Chances are it is headed to Chitaranjan but I thought CLW make the frame in house.