[voyageur]

Note: This post is about me renting the new KTM Duke 250 and trying to compare with the old KTM Duke 200.



Ever since KTM launched Duke in India, I was in love with it.

First of all, Duke serves as a machine to prove Darwin's theory of evolution right. Refer to the episodes of college students ripping on a Duke without any safety gear and ending up in a coffin. Doesn't it do a brilliant job of that?

Secondly, it has (or had) an iconic sound. Imagine you are riding in the city and you hear that distinctive KTM exhause note... tak tak tak. You know it's a matter of few seconds and that KTM will be all over you, mostly irrespective of what bike you are riding. Well, really depends on the number written on the motorbike, if it's 200 then it might take a few seconds and if it's 390 then the rider must have already passed you while you were processing this thought.

Speaking of KTM, I have immense respect for the bike because it is different, it is fun to drive, it is capable and it demanded respect. Love it or hate it, no way anyone can ignore it.

Our Kochi's notoriously famous bhpian BigBrad, when we have a conversation about Duke, often tells me that he can go to the kitchen and borrow an empty coconut shell from his mother, use a spoon and recreate Duke's exhaust note. Amusing but he just might be right there. Whatever, but for me, I don't mind the sound. Instead I liked it. I thought it was different. Like a Bullet or a Yamaha RX. Just gave that bike a completely different identity in India.

All of these until recently when KTM decided to revamp and relaunch the bike and the 'spoon on hollow coconut shell' noise was no more. I was and I still am completely heartbroken. The KTM today sounds so much like an Apache RTR. In my eyes, it just lost all that unique identity it had. I'll miss hearing to that distinctive noise and now, sadly Duke won't get that respect in city traffic because no one will know if a Duke is nearby.

End of rant!

Moving on to the main part, a big shout out to bhpian Sherlocked and his thread. Link

So he had mentioned that ONN bikes got a decent fleet here in Bangalore. Just like most women who look at gold prices or diamond prices in newspaper, I take immense pleasure in window shopping on OLX and these rental sites, just to.... you know....window shop.

Though I didn't find a huge collection of bikes on ONN rental site for Bangalore, I did find the new KTM Duke 250. I always wondered who would buy a Duke 250? Someone who was looking for a Duke 200 and had some extra money with them. ONN Bikes had Duke 250 only and not Duke 200 or Duke 390. One of my friends from work had an old Duke 200 and when he was away, I was fortunate enough to ride it for a couple of days in his absence. So with an intention of checking out what is different from the old Duke, I rented out a Duke 250 for 5 hours.

First things first, I must write about ONN and their service.

The best thing about ONN Bike rentals is that they let you rent a bike for minimum of 4 hours, with zero security deposit. You have to hand over your govt photo id card and they will take a photo of your driving license and that's it. The fuel is on the customer. Also their rates are unbeatable. Who gives a new Duke 250 for 199 rs for 4 hours. Booking took me not more than 5 mins and the experience was great. The bike was not immaculately maintained, but it was by no way a complete disaster either. It was good, the chain was a bit loose and we did feel some vibrations here and there which I suspect were the doings of previous customers. Further inspection of rear tires also said that it was 'properly' taken for a ride by some enthusiastic riders. So overall I was happy with their service. Their fleet is quite limited even in Bangalore I would say. They have Pulsars, Avengers, one Duke, one Dominar, a few ladies scooter and a Honda Navi. None of the other bikes interested me other than the Duke.

If at all, my fellow bhpians have any specific doubts regarding ONN, please feel free to ask below. So now that I have covered ONN bikes, I would love to write a few words about the Duke.

[voyageur]

I must admit that I went with a lot of negativity in mind for the current KTM (negative bias). Since it was a public holiday, I asked my younger cousin to join me. I wanted to know from him as well what he felt about the bike, especially when he had driven the old Duke 200 as well as RC200. We both are equally unfortunate that we have never driven a Duke or RC390. Also I must admit, his attention to details are a bit finer than mine.



First Impressions:

The moment I sat on the bike, I felt it was heavy. Heavier than the old Duke 200 for sure. This bike also felt higher. If you fill up at a petrol station and want to move the bike in Neutral without starting it, you might as well feel the same, or was it my pockets holding me back from going to pay.

The silencer felt odd since I was not used to seeing a silencer in the old one. The speedo console was the same as the old Duke and the key slot moved to the tank. The entire bike looked different. For me, the design looked sharp and catchy. I did notice the handle bar end weights thought. That is a new addition as well.

Ride, Handling and everything else:

After a quick look and a few pictures of the bike, I made my move from there. The gear shifts are annoying and requires effort, same as the old Duke 200. Unless you are high up in the rev range, I felt the gears are hard to fall in. The seating position is upright and should work out really well for Bangalore. Even the old Duke had decent ergonomics but I think it had gotten better.

I drove through 17 kms of Bangalore traffic to start with and the bike cruised effortlessly. Every gear had enough power unless in 5th or 6th gear and driving below 40 kmph. The brakes were decent but if I remember right, old Duke had more aggressive brakes. But again, I can't confirm this on a rental bike.

While waiting for my cousin to arrive, I took a few pictures which I'm attaching here. All the pictures in this post were taken on my mobile cam.














Once he came, we actually started riding the bike.

The bike can happily cruise between 90-100 kmph all day long. No strain at all, neither on the bike nor on the rider. On the older Duke 200, 75-85 kmph was a good spot. Let's also not forget that few extra horses in this one.

The suspensions are really nice, it kept the bike planted at all times while dealing with the bad roads as well. MRF's were decent, wish they were Metzeler's though. The bike redlines at 10500 rpm (as I could see) and once you cross the 6000 rpm mark, the speedo just flies. Double digit turns triple in blink of an eye.

So looking back, I think it is more matured in comparison to the older generation. I still remember the first time I drove the old Duke 200 and it took me a few minutes to feel safe and in control, but I didn't have any such problems here. Plainly, Duke has become kind of a married man than a reckless bachelor that it used to be or I have become a married man from a reckless bachelor.

The biggest disappointment again was the exhaust note. I terribly missed the old Duke's exhaust note. The old Duke had an inviting exhaust note, you would love to roll the throttle, shift, roll the throttle and in the process reach triple digits and then grin to yourself like an idiot. The noise on current Duke felt like an Apache. Again the exhaust note has played a major role in transforming this bike into a more matured bike I guess. Wonder if KTM-Bajaj is trying to take away that hooligan kind of image from the Duke.

As per my cousin:

1. The bike felt much narrower as the tank extensions have moved front and extends much to the front. That means more space for the rider to keep his knees.

2. The sound has changed the character of this bike to a great extent.

3. The real power of this bike lies above 6000 rpm till 9000 rpm. Once the 9000 mark is crossed, there is a slight lag in reaching the redline.

4. On a speedhump, nothing more than a 2nd gear works. If you are taking the speedhump really slow, the bike struggles in 2nd gear and you will be forced to shift to 1st gear.

5. The seats though are more grippy than old Duke, are still not great. The pillion seats are bigger but not sure if they have become better.

6. Brakes aren't great. Wish they were better. There are steel braided lines going to the front, can't say if it is just with this bike or if the brakes are weak in general.

7. The heating up is noticeable on the left side. Once the radiator fan comes on, you definitely can feel the heat. The heating up is not unbearable but it is quite evident.

8. The suspensions are great. Does it's job quite well. The bike feels stable at higher speeds also. Especially the feedback from the front is good.

9. In comparison to the old Duke 200, this bike feels more stable albeit there are vibrations on the tank area while on higher rpm.









Out of the total 87 kms, 50 kms were driven in traffic. Overtaking has never been easier, there is enough power to quickly overtake a bus or a lorry. People in Bangalore will understand how important that is and exactly what I'm talking about. But the downside would be the heating and the need to downshift every single time.

Will I buy the Duke 250?

Well, I wouldn't. To be honest, it isn't a very serious improvement over the Duke 200. So if you own a Duke 200 currently and plan to upgrade, this can't be considered as an upgrade. Only if you are someone who wants to buy a Duke 200, then this bike is worth a consideration. Even so, you don't get the bifurcated headlamps nor the TFT console. So it really doesn't make sense to spend around 35k-40k for that few hp's. Just my humble opinion.

And most importantly, the iconic 'hollow coconut shell being hit by a spoon' sound is missing. That is a deal breaker at least for me. I'm going back to OLX...for further window shopping.

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Motorcycle Section. Thanks for sharing!

[tharian]

Thanks for that review of a lesser known KTM.

It is one bike that didn't become famous like the 200 or 390 and I always thought how it would be in comparison to the twins. The review gives me a overall regarding that.

Regarding the new muffler, it looks like the same one of the 390. I have heard the 390 on full song with this muffler and kind of liked the note. It gives that relaxed feeling which was not that case with the 2 stroke Bajaj autorick exhaust note.

[PrasannaDhana]

Ha, finally someone who also misses the old autorickshaw exhaust note of the older ktms.

I loved that note on my 2014 Duke 390. I never needed a horn, it was loud enough to caution people to give way

My 2017 RC 390 with BS4 exhaust sounds sexy after 7000 rpm, but it does sound muted below that.

I have ridden Duke 200 extensively. In my books, duke 200 is a pure street brawler, made for the city. It is underpowered for the highways. The 390 twins hate city traffic, specially older models which threw tantrums below 4500 rpm and heated up like hell in bumper to bumper traffic. New 390s too dont feel at home inside the city. They are superb on the highways and twisties though.

Duke 250 is a compromise in my opinion. It isnt much faster than the duke 200, nor is half as equipped as the 390s. But 2 lakh OTR? 30Bhp, No ABS, MRF tyres?? Apache 310RR at 40k more, and the mighty 390s at 60k more make better sense.

But if someone is so in love with new Duke 390's looks, but is tight on a budget, Duke 250 makes a good buy. It is definitely more comfortable than Duke 200 and handles marginally better too(more front end feedback).

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by voyageur

The KTM today sounds so much like an Apache RTR.

I don't think this is a bad thing. In my books, the Apache has the best exhaust note of any motorcycle in its segment and some above. Personally; I did not like the traditional KTM exhaust note. Yes; you did recognize it from a distance but it sounded more like a toy.

The Duke 200 redefined what a "fast and nimble" motorcycle should be.

As a past 390 owner, I remember my first run on a 200. The difference with a 200 was that you could push hard and have more fun. You felt like taking a chance cause the motorcycle had perfect balance and allowed for great control. With a 390, pulling off the same stunt was outright scary. It was way too fast, heavier and controlling 42 horses on a what is still a light motorcycle takes good skill. I definitely could not thrash my 390 like I could on a 200 and that's what makes the baby Duke special. I guess the same can be experienced on the 250 though I don't understand the deal behind a 50cc increment.

Never found an issue with the gearbox on the 200. The 390 was less slick but rarely a false shift.

The Duke's are without doubt the fastest accelerating motorcycles you can buy with the ability to scare the daylights out of something that costs 3 - 4x the cost. Its a different thing that they may not last or be as reliable. While you are riding one, the experience is stamped in your memory. Quite like what the Yamaha RD 350 did 30 years ago.

Cheers mayte.

[voyageur]

Originally Posted by tharian

Thanks for that review of a lesser known KTM.

It is one bike that didn't become famous like the 200 or 390 and I always thought how it would be in comparison to the twins. The review gives me a overall regarding that.

Regarding the new muffler, it looks like the same one of the 390. I have heard the 390 on full song with this muffler and kind of liked the note. It gives that relaxed feeling which was not that case with the 2 stroke Bajaj autorick exhaust note.

Hello,

I'm glad to hear you got an idea of the bike from my review.

This bike is relaxed, true. And thanks to the new silencer. It is loud but very gentleman type of loud (if you know what I mean). The best thing about old Duke's was the madness, for me. That made it very different from the lot.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Ha, finally someone who also misses the old autorickshaw exhaust note of the older ktms.

I loved that note on my 2014 Duke 390. I never needed a horn, it was loud enough to caution people to give way

My 2017 RC 390 with BS4 exhaust sounds sexy after 7000 rpm, but it does sound muted below that.

I have ridden Duke 200 extensively. In my books, duke 200 is a pure street brawler, made for the city. It is underpowered for the highways. The 390 twins hate city traffic, specially older models which threw tantrums below 4500 rpm and heated up like hell in bumper to bumper traffic. New 390s too dont feel at home inside the city. They are superb on the highways and twisties though.

Duke 250 is a compromise in my opinion. It isnt much faster than the duke 200, nor is half as equipped as the 390s. But 2 lakh OTR? 30Bhp, No ABS, MRF tyres?? Apache 310RR at 40k more, and the mighty 390s at 60k more make better sense.

But if someone is so in love with new Duke 390's looks, but is tight on a budget, Duke 250 makes a good buy. It is definitely more comfortable than Duke 200 and handles marginally better too(more front end feedback).

Hello Prasanna,

I have read your thread and hence I'm sure you can relate to what I feel about the auto rick sound of the old Duke's.

Duke 250 is definitely a compromise, I second that. The OTR is higher than 2 lacs, Google says its around 2.3 lacs. I would also pick an Apache RR 310 over the Duke 250. I guess its unpopularity just indicates the same.

I'm yet to drive a Duke 390. Hope that I do get a chance to sooner than later.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I don't think this is a bad thing. In my books, the Apache has the best exhaust note of any motorcycle in its segment and some above. Personally; I did not like the traditional KTM exhaust note. Yes; you did recognize it from a distance but it sounded more like a toy.

The Duke 200 redefined what a "fast and nimble" motorcycle should be.

As a past 390 owner, I remember my first run on a 200. The difference with a 200 was that you could push hard and have more fun. You felt like taking a chance cause the motorcycle had perfect balance and allowed for great control. With a 390, pulling off the same stunt was outright scary. It was way too fast, heavier and controlling 42 horses on a what is still a light motorcycle takes good skill. I definitely could not thrash my 390 like I could on a 200 and that's what makes the baby Duke special. I guess the same can be experienced on the 250 though I don't understand the deal behind a 50cc increment.

Never found an issue with the gearbox on the 200. The 390 was less slick but rarely a false shift.

The Duke's are without doubt the fastest accelerating motorcycles you can buy with the ability to scare the daylights out of something that costs 3 - 4x the cost. Its a different thing that they may not last or be as reliable. While you are riding one, the experience is stamped in your memory. Quite like what the Yamaha RD 350 did 30 years ago.

Cheers mayte.

Hello Sandeep,

Thanks for the comment. By sounding like RTR, I meant the Duke kind of lost the whole craziness. The sound was outright crazy before. Just a perfect bike for an impatient hippie youngster. It annoyed people so much that they would just make way for it Personally, I'm not a Duke fanboy but I don't mind the old sound because it was different and unique. Just gave the Duke that different identity it deserved.

I did find the gear shifts hard in both the bikes I drove. Maybe my friend hadn't maintained it that well and the 2nd one obviously is a rental bike. But my cousin told that the gear shifts were always like this on lower rpms (say below 6k). But above 6k, gearshifts are least of your problems when you will be hanging on to your dear life.

I really hope, I can buy a D390 or an RC390 (older ones, 2nd hand) for that matter. It will be one hell of a ride, while it lasts.

Cheers!

[avinashsg]

Thanks voyageur for the review.
From last one week i was thinking why someone has not done this kind of comparision and here it is.
Saves me lot of time and efforts when i am in planning phase and wondering which of the two i should go for.
Will stick to the Duke 200 only for the exhaust note.

[voyageur]

Originally Posted by avinashsg

Thanks voyageur for the review.
From last one week i was thinking why someone has not done this kind of comparision and here it is.
Saves me lot of time and efforts when i am in planning phase and wondering which of the two i should go for.
Will stick to the Duke 200 only for the exhaust note.

Hello Avinash,

Duke 200 is a wonderful choice. I'm sure you won't regret your decision
If I were you, I would have also bought a Duke 200 or a pre-owned Duke/RC390.

Cheers!

[Sutripta]

Was wondering if someone can enlighten me on this -
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post4156917 (2017 KTM 390 Duke, 250 Duke and 200 Duke launched in India)

Regards
Sutripta

[abhijeet080808]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Was wondering if someone can enlighten me on this -
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post4156917 (2017 KTM 390 Duke, 250 Duke and 200 Duke launched in India)

Regards
Sutripta

If you compare the gear ratios here and here, you will note that both the D250 and D390 share the exact same gear ratios.

[Sutripta]

^^^
Thanks.
Just ratios do not a gearbox make, but in this case you are almost certainly right about the GBs being the same.

Regards
Sutripta