[drt_rdr]

What's "adventure" riding really? It's just a fancy way of saying touring. Only thing is you'd be prepared with a bike suitable for all kinds of roads, tar and dirt. The bike appears to be all that, as well as a decent trail bike to top it off. Yet, some of these guys are not happy, Sagar included. I mean it's ok to want more out of the bike, but to put it down saying it doesn't suit the purpose well is unjustifiable. Adventure bikes are designed to have some off-road capability but never biased towards riding off-road. That's what dirt bikes are for.

That just goes to show that the perspective of some of these guys is skewed towards their own warped imaginations, rather than seeing the practical value of the product.

And yes, it wouldn't be fair to expect our journalists to keep up with Reimann. But all anyone would ask for is basic competence. Some of them looked like fish out of water on that trail. Atleast they dressed the part even if they were no good for playing it.

Slipping the clutch along with throttle bursts at appropriate times is a basic and essential technique for keeping good traction over bumpy surfaces. Its easy to learn, has a couple other corollary applications, and in general, it's useful both on and off road. It should be been in the basic repertoire of these guys. What does that say about them?

[Red Liner]

If you want a bike on which you dont want to slip the clutch to ride up or down a trail - get an automatic scooter.

Have test rides started in other cities? Or are they only test rides on trails and private property for want of the RTO approvals?

[ihrishi]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

We are veering well off mainstream topic. Where the hell is the bike? Anyone have any word on test rides and delivery dates?

Test rides are available. Albeit its usually taking a round around the building and not on open roads. Deliveries starting from 10th Feb. Approximately 2 weeks waiting period is what I was promised in Pune.

[ashwinprakas]

I see a knowledge gap when it comes to understanding motorcycles and their engines, so let's simplify;

What is stroke property?

There are basically 3 types of motors, I.e Long, Short and Square strokes, a bit of Googling can give you more info than you'd ever need, if I recall right the Late Dilip Bam sir, has written a brilliant article that simplifies the topic for everyone's understanding.

Why is this significant?

Different stroke types have different characteristics and there are areas where they excel and they suck.

Since adventure is the name of the game here the assumption is that we'd be riding through a lot of gnarly terrain with questionable traction, so the more suited choice would be a Long Stroke motor.

This is because a long stroke motor makes enough grunt down low that you'd not have to slip the clutch as you'd have to do on a short stroke when maneuvering tricky sections plus due to the longer duration between power strokes your tyre has adequate time to regain composure and this ensures better traction.

The same characteristic is mimicked by the BigBang Firing Order that's present on the 650 twins from Kawasaki.

The advantage of such is that it effectively reduces the need for traction control, which is why we've all seen WhatsApp forwards of Royal Enfield's faring better than superbikes when it comes to tackling tricky terrain.

So what have we understood so far?

A long stroke motor is the preferred choice for offroad sections due to it being able to get the job done without having to slip the clutch or worry about traction, which not only makes it amateur friendly but also reduces stress on the rider cause when you're Adventure Riding a.k.a Touring you'd be clocking hundreds and at times even a thousand km's a day and fatigue is the last thing you'd want creeping up on you.

Okay, so what about Highways?

A longer stroke can only go so far on the highways as to ensure that you can cruise at certain speeds without having to stress the throttle, this works out in favor of reducing stress for the rider but the downside of this is that long stroke motors aren't capable of revving as high as their counterparts.

Though art not speak about the R15 at this point! Though technically a long stroke(hence why the more linear torque spread than the CBR250R which is a short stroke) it is not as aggressive as say the UCE350, and the head configuration makes a world of difference as well, a 2V offers more grunt and a 4V offers more revs to put simply.

Back to point, the impact of this is subjective, for a seasoned rider it's all about consistency hence the preference would be for a longish stroke but for a newbie the preference would be towards higher speeds and hence a shorter stroke.

Now time for the elephant in the room,

Where does the ADV 390 stand?

Well to be honest not far from where the Duke 390 stood.

If you've done adequate research on the points I've mentioned about you'd come to the realization that what KTM has done is taken the lean production approach to bringing an existing product to meet(barely) market aspirations so as to fill an empty spot in their catalogue for the Indian market.

This basically is what you do on a smaller scale when you cant afford a new motorcycle and try to make the best of the motorcycle you currently have by tweaking it.

Now this is just about the time when the petty Indian logic would kick in and go,

"Ha! product acha hai, isliye toh KTM isse tweak karke ADV format me bhi de raha hai!"

And this is also just about when I'd advice you to go back and re-read the technical aspects I'd mentioned earlier and feel free...rather I'd insist that you do your own research to better your understanding.

Should I not buy the ADV 390?

I'd you want a ADV 390, you get a ADV390! That's simply that, no two ways about it!

But if you want an Adventure/Touring bike then do be aware that you have other alternatives out there and this time do have a look at the technical aspects rather than the perceived notions cause the former is what holds water every single time.

Because no matter how well electronically equipped, the KTM 390 is a perfect Short Stroke such that is serves as a prime example for it's kind, just as the Royal Enfield 350/500 serve as examples for long strokes.

What's up with the Journos?

They're content creators hence merely treat them as such, cause as long as you have done adequate research regarding the basics of how machines work, it will better equip you to make a choice compared to the half baked stuff these Youtubers try to feed you with a special serving of their own biases.

What about Adam Riemann?

The guy is a professional, he would beat each and every one of our butts black and blue riding a Splendor against us riding a variety of so called ADV machines.

You could confirm the same by having a look at some of his other videos on YouTube and then comparing it with content published by our own Youtubers.

This is exactly the reason why such professionals are paid big bucks to promote such machines, so that the average Joe would try to relate at some misguided level and contemplate investing in whatever is being marketed.

Cause to reiterate, if you're not already pulling off stuff like this on whatever current motorcycle you have;



Then the chances of you turning pro just from buying XXX product is just as likely as you growing a 6 pack from using that GYM membership you got as part of your new years resolution.

Cheers,
A.P.

[nasirkaka]

Saw 390Adv for the first time last Saturday @ Indiranagar showroom. As already mentioned multiple times, the bike looks nice with decent build quality. I like the satin finish on the tank. The seat height felt similar to my 310Gs but the suspension did not sag a bit unlike the gs, which meant i could not completely flatfoot as seen in the pic below. I am 5'9". The bike sounded different from the older 390s, in a positive way. Coming back to suspension, it did feel stiff, on the lines of Xpulse. Overall the bike is very much in line with the mental image i had conjured for so many years, no big surprises there.

Adv is a niche segment and riders would more or less know what they are getting into. I do watch these vloggers but do no really take most of them seriously neither base my opinions bases on their analysis. As someone pointed out, one usually reaches the adv segment after trying out sports>naked>cruisers etc in no particular order. And by the time he reached ADV segment, it is expected of him to know about the genre and have adequate biking knowledge to form personal opinion on the product.
I am looking forward to test ride. Would have booked the 390 eyes closed, if not the baby GS i have. Will have to weigh the options carefully over time and take a call.

[drt_rdr]

@ashwinprakas: Nicely put. I'd like to counter argue a couple of dirt related things based on a few observations and some riding experience though.

Yes, generally, longer stroke motors make a bike easy to ride off-road, and good at just tractoring through most kinds of dirt, especially relatively level and linear stuff, provided the other elements of the bike (gearing, ground clearance, type of tires) support it adequately. That said, it doesn't mean people can get through just any terrain with only the throttle. It still doesn't necessarily rule out clutch slipping to ride fast, or to get through tricky stuff like slow technical terrain with lots of direction changes, getting around obstacles, heavily rutted terrain, very bumpy climbs, rocky water crossings etc. So, im not sure if fine control over clutch and throttle is something people intending to do some dirt can avoid learning.

While the nature of the motor makes it easy to do certain things, the throttle response also tends to be relatively slower, which may affect certain line decisions. Practically, the Himalayan is the only long stroke motor in our adv market, and though it makes for generally easy riding, it's also unnecessarily heavy which makes it unwieldy on anything but easy trails IMO.

On the other hand, having a short stroke motor doesn't automatically make a bike worse off-road. It isn't always the case that you need to rev short stroke motors a lot to get them going. But even if you do need to rev it up, a relatively gentle low end response that picks up in the middle to the top can be a safe thing on the dirt for inexperienced people, and involving for experienced people. My personal opinion is that this kind of response encourages the growth of a rider. With experience, it also tends to help in putting down calculated amounts of power for a given situation. Though it may be a bit more work than just plodding through stuff with a Himalayan or something, its still very functional and also tends to be rewarding.

Most adv bikes and dual sports in our market are short stroke motors. So, just going by motor configuration on paper alone, there's not much of a choice, unless you plan to modify an existing LS roadbike with long travel suspension, or make something like the the Karizma engine mod for the impulse. Though I wonder how this would hold up against a stock xpulse.

Even in the international market, a lot of highly regarded dual sports come with short stroke motors with a relatively weak low end response. The Yamaha wr250r's is supposed to be 1 cylinder straight off an R1. Not to mention there are so many dirtbikes with a short stroke motor. I'm guessing, more than cost and manufacturing convenience, this is probably because the designers want the bike to stay relevant in some way for all skill levels of riders. I mean for example, the toned down initial pickup on the duke 390 allows relatively mild mannered people to enjoy the bike, while not diluting it much for people who are power hungry.

Now I'm not saying that means the adv390 is just fine. I'm sure it comes with its own set of drawbacks, but I can't really see the short stroke nature of the motor as a problem as of now. We're talking about a 370 cc single cylinder motor on a near 180 kilo bike. I'd wager the bike would have a comfortable and adequately grippy low end pull. And this is intended to do a lot more roads than dirt anyway.

All said, i'm personally not in the market for an adv390 or even a 250. I'm waiting for something much lighter. And it may be a long wait unless Yamaha or TVS do something about it.

[Jaggu]

Wow so much of discussions on bike and the test ride reports observations!

Let me also dip my chips into the ketchup!

Adventure biking definition? World over this is generally attributed to bikers traveling/touring through countries or continents exploring the landscape. This can involve 1000's of kms over multiple, days, weeks and some traveling for months. Normally people prefer either mid-size bikes say (500-600 cc) Or larger ones (800-1200 cc) for their load carrying capability and comfort offered while doing mile-munching. 80-90% of these folks stick to main highways and then there are countries with pretty bad highway infrastructure, especially in border areas, where the same heavy bikes become a pain to handle. The verdict is still out on if a mid-size or large capacity bike is ideal? But general consensus is mid-size is easy to handle in no road situations, whereas the large bikes are good for cruising it out.

If you look at most of Europe or North America the road infrastructure is so good that people with large bikes will not hesitate to pack up and ride to faraway places. Only when they start exploring offbeat places in say South America, Asia etc they have felt the need for a slightly better offroad package and maybe lighter bike. Obviously, average speed and traffic conditions in that side of the world really do not justify big fat 120-140 kmph all-day ride bikes. I am speaking from adventure touring perspective and not referring to thrill-seekers who thrash around on trails.

Coming to India yes we had folks riding around the country since many decades, started with enfields and now right from a small Xpulse, to Dominars, to KTM's to the big boys from Hondas, Triumph's, BMW's etc. So people have been touring/adventure riding in our country also. Somehow the hills always had the best of scenery and worst of road infrastructure in India and that was like the ultimate test of man and the machine here in India.

So say world over 90-95% of folks who are into adventure riding is mostly touring, hardly a handful venture out into real wild and do trail bashing and explorations. Atleast that has been the scene. Now there is a small minuscule here in India also, who like to go full offroad, thrash around terrain that is most often non-motorable and for them there were few choices so far with regards to bikes, so they kept doing it with whatever they have had with them.

To me category a) adventure tourers and b) trail riders are entirely two different categories. And just like 4 wheelers there are limitations, mostly physics, that makes it impossible for one machine that is perfect for all of this. To me, what KTM has done is to provide to category a) a decent bike and with some limited capabilities for category b), mostly due to the lightweight nature of the Adventure 390. So similar to expecting a Thar to be a great tourer (like a Pajero sport) and capable like a RFC prepared 4x4 is ignorance more than anything.

KTM launched this bike in a unique style, got one of the best two-wheel rider out there, who does crazy hardcore riding across the globe for a living, added a terrain which hardly 5% of the potential buyers would take the bike to, as an experience to reinforce the pedigree of the brand. Like someone mentioned it is always 80% rider/driver and 20% vehicle when it comes to challenging terrain like this. Just like expecting the normal car reviewers, who are mostly limited to road or maybe little bit of track driving to excel in offroad, first time on a Thar, in a pure offroad trail with a little bit of guidance, is rather silly. And to expect them to cope on a two-wheeler where you don't even have a guide sitting along is asking for too much isn't it? Ya then why do a review? well that is their job and they have done best they could, if you watch carefully you will even see that some of these reviewers might have been just the anchor and the actual riding maybe was done by other riders.

It might look easy on videos and pics, but would require great deal of skill and stamina to ride in that terrain. I have decent amount of road riding experience and very minimal skills offroad. I would have shat bricks if I had gone for the event. Having said that another interesting fact that i realized was on a recent bike ride vacation, when I had to spend days together riding offroad. I was so happy that I was using a lightweight and underpowered Xpulse instead of my regular overweight and powerful tiger. Simple reason was confidence! After living with a larger and heavier bike, I was so confident that no matter what stupidity I did on the little Xpulse, it would not land me in a bad spill. And this is again where KTM is trying to leverage the 390 adventure, a light and powerful enough bike that can help you do decent mile-munching and have some carefree flirting on the truly offroad stuff. Most importantly you wont pay in lakhs for a small drop of the bike.

Sorry for the rather large post but...

1- It is an adventure bike aimed at short to medium rides across the country.
2- It is not a scrambler for trail bashing.
3- expecting normal media folks to give you reviews of a bike as pro offroad riders is expecting too much.
4- However simple things look on video, it may not be as easy when you swing a leg over these bikes on difficult terrain. Hell at this 850 mm seat height, swinging the leg over on level ground itself is a task.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

I'd like to counter argue a couple of dirt related things based on a few observations and some riding experience though.

There is no replacement for skill, simply can't argue about that.

All I'm pointing out is that with everything else remaining constant i.e tyres, suspension etc. a longer stroke poses an advantage over its shorter stroke competitor when it comes to challenging terrain.

You have the best example in the Indian context itself i.e the ZMA(long stroke) and P220(short stroke), coincidentally I've owned both. With identical specification the ZMA is a whole lot better to ride on dodgy terrain thanks to its stroke property.

The same applies when it comes to slipping the clutch as well, because to tackle rocks or stepped terrain I'd be slipping clutch at about 3000 RPM on the ZMA i.e if at all I have to, but on the P220 it is mandatory and I'd have to be doing so at nothing less than 6000RPM.

Overlooking skill level and rider fatigue at this point and focusing on the motorcycle alone, when you are channeling power though the clutch to the rear wheel you have a higher chance of the rear breaking traction and going sideways at 6000RPM than at 3000RPM.

I do not recall which video but on one the guy testing the ADV390 does pop the front wheel unintentionally, I say unintentional because he did this just about when his motor was running out of steam and there wasn't anything considerable to hop over, smooth throttle clutch transitioning is not the short strokes forte.

You could argue that a skilled rider could manage that with a bit of finesse but do realize that we're burning clutch here, which would not be a concern if you're riding trail for fun, but it would be a serious concern if you're touring interstate. If you recall from my ownership thread, I burnt my clutch during an interstate motorcycle event and had to ride 600km's+ back home with the same clutch, trust me it wasn't ideal by a long shot.

As for the delay in throttle response, it isn't always the case and not a significant factor when it comes to touring as long as its consistent and being consistent is a characteristic of the long stroke motor.

As for the case of the DRZ400, WR250 etc etc... These dual sports machines are built ground up with the kind of terrain in mind which they can handle at speeds no one would even contemplate taking a ADV motorcycle to on such circumstances but granted we do not get to choose our terrain when touring, if you look at the spec sheet you'll see that the ADV390 doesn't even come close in comparison which obviously is from being in a different class where breaking traction is the norm.

This is a nearly decade only photo of my ZMA on a trail, this was my first time and I was riding with fellow enthusiasts with way more experience than myself, but then I was the first one to make it out and coincidentally the only one riding a long stroke motorcycle.



Photo was taken at level ground due to the area being infested by snakes, had to ride quite a bit ahead of the gang to be able to spot such an area as I wasn't comfortable stopping on the trickier sections.

I've done the same section with my P220 when the govt started to build roads on this particular trail, even then I wasn't nearly as fast as I was on my ZMA back then.

Regards,
A.P.

[Urban_Nomad]

This motorcycle has polarized opinions of not just Tbhp-ians, but many riders that I personally know of. What is particularly disheartening though is how some members here are putting down others' opinions based on their used case. Some points that get brought up frequently:

- Its an ADV... NOT a dirt bike

Sure, no one asked for a dirt bike either. We all know what they are, thank you very much. I personally wanted a bike with some off roading chops built into it. Is the 790 ADV a dirt bike, or an ADV bike? I, and most around me expected a very scaled down version of that. Whats so wrong about this expectation? Proper suspension travel, wire wheels, strong frame (especially the engine mounts that are known to go bust), good ergos. Sift through the forums (including ours) for the posts made on this bike over the last few years. Nobody asked for Quick shifters, TFTs, traction control etc. But that's what we got and were severely short changed on what I consider important bits. That's why the furore; and its justified in my opinion. There are ADV bikes out there that do well off road. But they are expensive, too big, heavy to really have fun on the loose stuff. This is where a properly set up 39 ADV could have been a game changer

What is adventure riding - People don't know what they want and have lopsided expectations

Many definitions on this thread for what ADV riding means. And none are wrong. Its your opinion. It is absolutely infuriating though when folks project their version of ADV riding to basically everyone. Minority or otherwise, one's opinion on ADV riding and "how much is off road" depends on person to person. I, for example now pretty much detest riding on the street and actively find ways to limit the time I spend on the road with my bike. Heck, when the time came to buy a new car recently, I bought an Isuzu S cab just so that I can load up my bikes and drive to the trails I wish to explore. But this is my use case and I can appreciate its not for everyone. But what gives others the right to tell me how much they think I ride off road and need a motorcycle that's properly equipped for the same?

How many people are going to head to the trails anyway? It'll be a city bike. Only when one goes into the unexplored jungles (or whatever) do you need off road capable machines

Taking that analogy to 4 wheels, how many actively buy and use 4X4s for mud plugging? Many would argue why one would buy a Fortuner, Endy in 4X4 guise in the first place. Who needs it... right? Still, there are a multitude of individuals who take these behemoths exploring and satiate their need for their version of adventure. They do it in a heavy (for example) Fortuner (an ADV bike) and not a purpose built Jeep / Gypsy (Dirt bike) because this one car lets them do it all. These cars will never be a dedicated 4X4 jeep on the trails, but they will be there with them. The 390 ADV could have easily been that ONE BIKE to do it all. Alas, its just a comfier Duke. That's a bloody shame

The journos are crazy

I cannot believe that we TBHP-ians, who want nothing more than an unbiased product review are now bashing these journos for saying - Its not as good as they thought it would / could have been? DISAPPOINTING! We should be freakin celebrating that our journos have the cojones to come out and call it like it is. Think about it - what good does it do for them to bash KTM? What do they gain by bashing one of the most awaited motorcycles ever in our 2 wheeled history? There was a thread too (I think) which discussed how motorcycle reviews are paid and journos give needless praise to rather mediocre products coz the Suits are stuffing their pockets with cash. What happened here? We are now bashing them because they said the bike sucks off road. None of us thus far have ridden the bikes, but we know enough to call bull on their reviews? This is plain shameful. Or maybe its because Riemann rode it so well... Is it?

Adam Riemann just put this thing through its paces. What good is an average Desi rider's opinion

Adam R is obviously an extremely gifted rider; one of the best in the world. But you know what; he doesn't have to buy the bike, worry about down payments and EMIs, maintain it, get it fixed when something breaks etc. You and I do. Running the bike over a given terrain for a few minutes to never do it again is very different from doing the same thing over and over again.... weekend after weekend or over hundreds of KMs. Wheels and suspension don't matter? Then why does KTM offer those on its other ADVs? Their "R" versions are all off road focused and the big changes from the "Non R" versions are wheels and suspension. Or if anyone gets the opportunity, please ask Mr Riemann on what he prefers if he plans to take his motorcycle places beyond the tarmac. I don't need this answer BTW, but may here clearly do

Any bike will go where these "purpose built" ADVs go. Come see my local villagers

And that is true. These Splendors, some pulsars and similar machines are a common sight on the trails we ride every weekend. There is a small difference though. We like to go a little faster. If just ambling along on a trail is your idea of "off roading" then ya, splendors will do just fine. But that's not my goal. I like to go faster and am constantly learning (aka falling... A LOT) as to how I can do so. When you add speed into the mix, you get many undesirable things on the aforementioned street oriented bikes like bent / broken chassis, beat up springs, busted seals etc. And I speak here from my own personal experience, not hearsay. And if you still think that any bike will go anywhere, then why the desperate wait for the 390 ADV all these years? Splendor has been on sale for decades now and we have enough street bikes already if "road power" is what you miss

Lastly, and this is my opinion - KTM has skimped on the essentials and is misdirecting with its electronics package. I am not talking about the omission of adjustable suspension as I personally don't care for it. Off topic, but "real" suspension adjustment is something I consider to be a fairly dark art. Fine tuning rebound, damping is no joke and even abroad; people pay big bucks to custom tune their suspension. If what was being provided though was just pre load adjustment, then you can get that from Ali express for like 1500 bucks. Problem solved

Instead of providing proper wheels and a long travel suspension, KTM has given us:

Quick shifter - So one can save miliseconds not having to blip the throttle while clutchlessly up or downshifting? I understand that for a race bike, what's the utility here? I still clutchlessly upshift and downshift my 1st Gen Duke 390 and Hero Impulse all the way from second till the top gear and back. And if the reviews are to be trusted, everyone has complained that it doesn't work very well unless you are within a certain RPM range. Just like clutchless shifting on a non quick shifter equipped bike. SMH

Traction control - Having owned a Duke for 6 years now, I don't know when I needed TC on the road. Off road - You will switch it off. It anyway isn't working very well and is abrupt... again as per the reviews

Lean sensing ABS is awesome though but again wont work off road. KTM has certainly taken the El Cheapo route this time. Proper wheels that wont break over prolonged use (I value rim integrity over punctures... go figure) and long travel suspension would've taken a lot more effort on KTMs part.

I guess the main reason for disappointment in this motorcycle is the ADV moniker that the bike doesn't live up to. Instead - Duke GT would have kept everyone happy and there wouldn't be a debate

Anyhow, whatever your choices are in terms of motorcycles and kind of riding; please remember - they are yours and yours alone and do not automatically extend to everyone else

Apologies for this rather long post

[VR/46_Chet]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Have test rides started in other cities? Or are they only test rides on trails and private property for want of the RTO approvals?

Khamla Square KTM, Nagpur.

I was supposed to take a test ride on Saturday but apparently they had lent the bike to someone for a full day. This someone rides a Tiger and has booked the 390ADV. So anyway, I was promised a test ride on Monday morning. Today, myself and a friend were allowed to ride it (~ 2KM) on one of the most perfect roads here and upon uttering the word off-road, the person said that's not possible and that he will allow us to take it off-road once the bike gets registered. As of now, I'm not really sure if I will actually take the so called off-road test ride because -

1. Finding Neutral took a good 2 minutes. It kept shifting from 2 to 1 and then to 2 and the person kept saying "be gentle" and it got to a point where I couldn't be any softer (no dual meanings here).

2. One look at the console and I was welcomed with all sorts of warnings. First one being ECU Failure, then MTC failure, then ABS failure and lastly, Instrument Cluster Error. Upon asking, all I got was "sir, it's a test ride bike, some issues will be there" and he got "no one will buy this bike from you if you don't sort these issues on your test ride bike" from me in return.

3. In first gear, the whole front fairing was vibrating. At this point I had made up my mind that this particular bike must have received some (improper?) bashing over the weekend and took a U-turn to get back.

4. Tried pulling in the oh-so-dear 3rd gear and the motor refrained to go beyond 6k rpm. This is when I looked at the Tachometer and it was blinking as if at redline. Upshifted and it stopped blinking. The console was showing 0kmph all the time but I think I was doing ~70kmph when the third gear fiasco happened. Limp home mode? And if it is, isn't 70-ish a bit too much? Or so I thought.

5. Last but not the least, the round-ish frame that holds the fairing looks weird (subjective) to me.

As for the good points -

1. I loved the seating position as well as the seat (I'm 5'11").

2. Handlebar is good, will be better with risers.

3. It sounds different when compared to the other 390s - a welcome change.

4. Both the paint schemes available look really nice.

5. GPS mount provision.


Khamla Square KTM said they've received 17 bookings so far. No, I'm not planning to buy this bike but I was looking forward to a good test ride. Maybe, I should take the so called off-road test ride once they sort out the issues.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

However simple things look on video, it may not be as easy when you swing a leg over these bikes on difficult terrain. Hell at this 850 mm seat height, swinging the leg over on level ground itself is a task.

You'll get used to it.

My P220 with the aftermarket shocks is currently at 845mm seat height, we have a ZMA that was recently built that is closer to 900mm(couldn't get exact measurement as a lot of parts were changed).

Im 5'11 and my friend who owns the ZMA is 5'7.

[Red Liner]

A real 800km owner review?

https://youtu.be/oiyUkcQzTNU

Headlight performance seems great!

He is very happy with the bike. He is pissed off with KTM and Bajaj for not launching this thing much earlier. Will sum up a few things.

1. no vibes
2. 90kmph at 4500 rpm
3. Seat height works well for him at 5.10
4. He loved how well the bike cornered up in the mountains
5. No engine heat, fan barely came on once.granted he was up in the Himalayas.
6. He goes ahead and calls bull shit on most of the Indian media reviewers who barely had the bike for 3 hours before putting up their video review.

he owns the bike, and has done 800kms so far. He is up for the first oil change. Has this summarised for a non native audience elsewhere.

Towards the end of the video he answers and sums up most of the nonsense thats been spewing up everywhere. Haters gonna hate

[drt_rdr]

@ashwinprakas: Definitely, a steady throb of power is a comforting thing to have on the dirt for the average rider. I like riding the gs150r off-road too (one of the reasons I was contemplating putting long travel suspension on it). Can't argue with this (going purely by riding experience with existing bikes, and without getting into motor mechanics, because if we do, a Karizma or a gs150r or a fiero also being just barely undersquare leads towards your point about the R15, and opens up the next logical question about what happens when you constrict flow on a short stroke...).

Not sure what to think about the clutch slipping comparison though. I was under the impression the pulsar220 had good low end grunt (I haven't ridden it. Closest I've come is the old 200). People also tend to learn to use momentum with a short stroke to reduce depandance on the clutch though.

All said, we really don't have practical options when it comes to long stroke motors. Seems like it's either the Himalayan or modify an older bike.

The market is flooded with short strokes though, and you tend to get a more flexible engine character, quicker access to power and more engine braking with these. These characteristics have excellent upsides on the dirt and lend themselves to fast and involving riding. I'm not saying short strokes are better, just that they're also very usable. I'll leave it at that.

[Red Liner]

This video is GOLD. The entire trail shot in one sequence.

https://youtu.be/sRRDhda2bLc

This was more schooling than press ride. I had to laugh a couple times.

1. You always look up to see ahead
2. You stand up and ride ALL the time on the trail.
3. You pick a line before you start your engine, and you commit to it.
4. If you stall midway on a rocky trail with no traction, you come back down and attempt again. You don’t burn the clutch half way up there and then complain that there isn’t any torque.
5. You wear the lightest possible riding gear or better still get rid of the jacket in technical terrain. Heat kills. Falls don’t.
6. Finally, lose some weight. It helps.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

next logical question about what happens when you constrict flow on a short stroke...).

The theory is promising but who are we kidding, when it comes to getting a replacement no one thinks about intake velocity, everyone(you and me included) would go for the largest venturi available at the lowest price.

The recently rebuild ZMA I was referring to is running on a 33mm(overkill) carburetor from the NS200, go figure.

But then do note that FI's are taking care of that to a great extent, hence why you see even short stroke engines perform brilliantly on FI compared to their Carb variants as they're not dependent on engine vacuum to propel fueling.

Not sure what to think about the clutch slipping comparison though. I was under the impression the pulsar220 had good low end grunt

I guess that depends on experience, coming from the ZMA and D100(Both are long strokes), the P220 was and is an absolute disappointment when it comes to LET, but at the same time CBR250R owners claim that the P220 has stronger LET.

Which is why I follow Dilip Bam Sir's formula of Stroke/Bore as it still applies to comparing LET of motorcycles, the one that yields the highest value offers better LET in comparison.

People also tend to learn to use momentum with a short stroke to reduce depandance on the clutch though.

This is the only way to get the job done with minimal wear and tear, but unfortunately the trails we encounter amidst touring aren't as forgiving as the ones seen on YT videos. Momentum is a luxury we cannot afford when the same trail is being shared by heavy duty vehicles and other cagers, wildlife and the most dangerous, other motorcyclists.

These characteristics have excellent upsides on the dirt and lend themselves to fast and involving riding. I'm not saying short strokes are better, just that they're also very usable. I'll leave it at that.

Neither am I saying that the long strokes are a must have, just shared the info for better understanding.

Though personally, I can't deny that I'm just a little disappointed that KTM went with band aid fixes to push the 390 out, when it fact they could've done something about the ticking time bomb that is the balancer which is a concern on all 390 motors from KTM, another being its head.

A friend and fellow enthusiast who has clocked way over 100k on his D200 got himself a D390 and within 6 months of ownership and clocking 17k km's the motorcycle is in for a warranty rebuild.

Anyways its a ADV motorcycle and power figures aren't paramount in this game, so it does make you think why KTM went with copy paste rather than work on the engine to make it dare I say a bit more reliable?

Originally Posted by Red Liner

2. You stand up and ride ALL the time on the trail.
3. You pick a line before you start your engine, and you commit to it.
4. If you stall midway on a rocky trail with no traction, you come back down and attempt again. You don’t burn the clutch half way up there and then complain that there isn’t any torque.
5. You wear the lightest possible riding gear or better still get rid of the jacket in technical terrain. Heat kills. Falls don’t.
6. Finally, lose some weight. It helps.

Trail riding on closed sections for shits and giggles, yes, can't agree more.

But this is practically not feasible when it comes to touring or as the gents put it Adventure Riding.

On some of the trails it is hard enough to find a spot to pee amidst indigenous traffic lest move forward at a picnic's pace.

Regards,
A.P.