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Old 29th June 2018, 10:36   #1
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Default Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Came across this latest news report in the financial express regarding relaunch of Jawa Motorcycles.

https://www.financialexpress.com/aut...ullet/1223540/

News Courtesy: The Financial Express
Quote:
We have known for a while, that Mahindra would lead a resurrection of sorts for the Jawa brand in India. We reported earlier this year that Jawa motorcycles would in-fact start production of these motorcycles in India out of their Pithampur facility in India in July. Being just a few days away, Anand Mahindra started the day with a tweet that seemed to reach out to the motorcycling community. The tweet contained a meme set to a picture of a motorcyclist in the rain, bearing the quote “Life isn’t about waiting for the storm to pass, it’s about learning to ride in the rain”; Mahindra tweeted that instead of dancing in the rain, the reason he’d chosen this particular meme since Jawa’s return was imminent and the brand was strong on his mind.
Link to Anand Mahindra's Latest Tweet: https://twitter.com/anandmahindra/st...07714909478913

Quote:
Mahindra two-wheelers proprietor of Jawa and BSA bikes is scheduled to start production by July 2018, the bikes which will be modelled around the Jawa 250s of the past will enter the markets with their cross-hairs firmly focused on Royal Enfield. Up until now there's is no clarity on the exact specifications of the Jawa bikes will be, what we do know is that the brand will try to build on the Jawa’s retro appeal, a formula that has worked well for the likes of Royal Enfield, which was one of Jawa’s original rivals before the company left India in the early 80s.

The Jawa 350 that was launched last year in international markets sets the precedent of what we should expect from Jawa. The motorcycles get two engine options a 350cc twin-cylinder two-stroke and a 400cc four-stroke single cylinder, however, both will still carry the 350 badge. Since two-strokes are banned in India, we are likely to get the single cylinder unit which makes 26 hp and 32 Nm of torque. While the bike will top out at 120 kmph.To keep it in line with tradition, the Jawa 350 will be paired with a 4-speed manual gearbox, and the Jawa 150 kg kerb weight should allow it maintain its original dynamic character, which is what bested the REs of yesteryear as well. The Jawa will make it to India pre-set with Euro IV norms, a 17-litre long range tank, twin exhausts a 19-inch front and 18 inch rear wheels. However, the big difference will be the addition of disc brakes on both bikes.
Image Courtesy: The Financial Express

Mahindra Jawa 250

Name:  Mahindra Jawa 250.jpeg
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Last edited by ssambyal1980 : 29th June 2018 at 10:44.
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Old 29th June 2018, 11:10   #2
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

All good, except that four speed gearbox!

Even the Enfields have moved on from that 'tradition', as Mahindra claims it.

Also, sad we can't get the two stroke 350 twin. Just hear this roar - reminds me of the Yezdi Roadking, one of my favourite sounding motorcycles ever - not surprising being a Jawa afterall.


Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 29th June 2018 at 11:29.
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Old 29th June 2018, 11:54   #3
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Hopefully it will look like a Jawa ! The cooling fins and the double silencers need to be like Jawa.
Shouldn't they build it in Mysuru to bring back that nostalgia !
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Old 29th June 2018, 11:59   #4
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Quote:
To keep it in line with tradition, the Jawa 350 will be paired with a 4-speed manual gearbox, and the Jawa 150 kg kerb weight should allow it maintain its original dynamic character, which is what bested the REs of yesteryear as well.
I don't think it would be a good idea to play the tradition game with RE. The simple reason being millennials (me included), have little to no idea about the legacy of Jawa motorcycles.

IMHO, Mahindra should do what Triumph did with the Bonneville line-up. Let the Jawa bikes look retro on the outside, but make them modern on the inside. They already have a gem of an engine doing duty on the Mojo, why not plonk it in the Jawa 350? Not only does it make economic sense, but also with 27hp and 30 nm, it will easily outperform the Classic 350 which happens to be RE's highest selling model. I'm not even going to mention the refinement and reliability advantage of the Mojo's engine, because everyone has that advantage over RE

Anand Mahindra is right, the Jawa 350 could be a very tough competitor to RE's Classic 350.

Last edited by Shumi_21 : 29th June 2018 at 12:00. Reason: Typos
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Old 29th June 2018, 12:33   #5
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumi_21 View Post
I don't think it would be a good idea to play the tradition game with RE. The simple reason being millennials (me included), have little to no idea about the legacy of Jawa motorcycles.

Anand Mahindra is right, the Jawa 350 could be a very tough competitor to RE's Classic 350.
Being the owner of a 67 model JAWA , I am used to the attention it draws whenever I take it out for a ride. However, I tend to agree with the comment that younger generation , especially the millennials, don't have any idea of the bikes of yesteryears. I cannot blame them because of the huge array of technically advanced bikes that are now available in the market.

Mahindra has tried its hand at entering the motorcycle market with its own name and has not made any headway. So now , using a time tested brand like Jawa or BSA would definitely give a good marketing advantage. What now would be interesting to see is , which segment of people Mahindra is expecting to attract by re introducing the Jawa brand?. Surely , those who rode and enjoyed these bike in their prime would have moved on to cars and younger generation do not know much about the motorcycle.

Jawa / Yezdi 350?. How many are even aware that such a bike even existed.
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Old 29th June 2018, 13:06   #6
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Famous last words.

Mahindra introduced Navistar trucks similarly targeting Tata Motors, saying "OK is no longer OK". We all know what happened to that ill-fated venture.

IMHO they should try to create their own presence rather than trying to gatecrash someone else's party. This approach from Mahindra seems very immature and wannabe - its a bit like Don Quixote tilting at the windmills, Mr Mahindra. Perhaps it sounds 'cool' to his twitter fans, but it does not seem like a very sound business strategy.

Jawa can never have the emotional quotient of the Bullet, simply because Ideal Jawa shut down and has been off the radar for nearly a quarter of a century now.

The guys who rode Jawa in its heyday (before the 100cc IndoJap onslaught) are all grandfathers now. There is no residual value in the brand - they have to create value all over again.
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Old 29th June 2018, 13:41   #7
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
All good, except that four speed gearbox!
Even the Enfields have moved on from that 'tradition', as Mahindra claims it.
Also, sad we can't get the two stroke 350 twin. Just hear this roar - reminds me of the Yezdi Roadking, one of my favourite sounding motorcycles ever - not surprising being a Jawa afterall.
Absolutely...Couldn't agree more. Five speed gearbox cannot be missed nowadays as squeezing out more mileage is imperative considering the escalating fuel prices, as this has been the approach of most of the motorcycle companies considering the fact that fuel economy weighs heavily on an average Indian commuters mind. Hands down nothing can match the sound of Yezdi Road King which felt like music to the ears of every motorcycle aficionado of the good old days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Hopefully it will look like a Jawa! The cooling fins and the double silencers need to be like Jawa. Shouldn't they build it in Mysuru to bring back that nostalgia!
True...There should be no tweaking around with the old looks of Jawa which holds the ultimate nostalgia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumi_21 View Post
I don't think it would be a good idea to play the tradition game with RE. The simple reason being millennials (me included), have little to no idea about the legacy of Jawa motorcycles.

IMHO, Mahindra should do what Triumph did with the Bonneville line-up. Let the Jawa bikes look retro on the outside, but make them modern on the inside. They already have a gem of an engine doing duty on the Mojo, why not plonk it in the Jawa 350? Not only does it make economic sense, but also with 27hp and 30 nm, it will easily outperform the Classic 350 which happens to be RE's highest selling model. I'm not even going to mention the refinement and reliability advantage of the Mojo's engine, because everyone has that advantage over RE. Anand Mahindra is right, the Jawa 350 could be a very tough competitor to RE's Classic 350.
Endorse your view point that the millennials won't relate much with the Jawa which went out of production more than two decades ago. Going by the current market trends and customer preferences its imperative on the part of the manufacturing company to consider a contemporary outlook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srini1785 View Post
Being the owner of a 67 model JAWA , I am used to the attention it draws whenever I take it out for a ride. Mahindra has tried its hand at entering the motorcycle market with its own name and has not made any headway. So now , using a time tested brand like Jawa or BSA would definitely give a good marketing advantage. What now would be interesting to see is , which segment of people Mahindra is expecting to attract by re introducing the Jawa brand?. Surely , those who rode and enjoyed these bike in their prime would have moved on to cars and younger generation do not know much about the motorcycle. Jawa / Yezdi 350?. How many are even aware that such a bike even existed.
Absolutely...No one can forget the aura which Jawa motocycles used to have. Although I couldn't lay my hands on one to drive as I was too young for that but nonetheless have enjoyed rides on it as my friend's dad used to have one. Can't forget the sound of the bike through double silencers which sounded like music to the ears and was a sure attention grabber on the road. It won't be easy for Mahindra to recreate that magic again as times have changed a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Famous last words.
Mahindra introduced Navistar trucks similarly targeting Tata Motors, saying "OK is no longer OK". We all know what happened to that ill-fated venture.

IMHO they should try to create their own presence rather than trying to gatecrash someone else's party. This approach from Mahindra seems very immature and wannabe - its a bit like Don Quixote tilting at the windmills, Mr Mahindra. Perhaps it sounds 'cool' to his twitter fans, but it does not seem like a very sound business strategy.

Jawa can never have the emotional quotient of the Bullet, simply because Ideal Jawa shut down and has been off the radar for nearly a quarter of a century now.

The guys who rode Jawa in its heyday (before the 100cc IndoJap onslaught) are all grandfathers now. There is no residual value in the brand - they have to create value all over again.
Definitely the charm of RE is unparalleled and it has its own class of admirers and die hard followers who won't settle for anything else. Such is the nostalgia associated with RE Bullet that even the younger generation has welcomed it with great enthusiasm as and when the company has come out with new model.

Last edited by ssambyal1980 : 29th June 2018 at 13:51.
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Old 29th June 2018, 15:02   #8
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

The advantage with Enfield was that they already had a 4 stroke engine when other manufacturers had two stroke bikes only. This could help them be in continuous production and probably one of the reasons the brand hasn't been forgotten like the Yezdi/Jawa.

If Mahindra has to be brink back Jawa, it would end up like the Mojo for the same reasons many have mentioned before.
Even if they put a modern 4 stroke engine on the similar looking bikes like Roadking and the 350, they would hardly be any takers, simply because they don't look modern to the majority buyers.
What they should be doing is move forward rather than look back and leave Yezdi as it was in the minds of people who remember it.

Co-incidentally, this morning I just removed the covers off member Sandeepmohan's old 350 twin that's been parked in my lot for over a year, just to see if all was okay.

Last edited by tharian : 29th June 2018 at 15:04.
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Old 29th June 2018, 16:36   #9
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

I wish Mahindra all the best for considering Jawa for its second innings in India. Jawa Yezdi has a cult following in India especially down south. Only fly in the ointment is that the two strokes wont come to India. But why? I have seen brand new 2 Stroke Bajaj RE auto rickshaws getting registered. Given that it is a three wheeler used for public transport, but still.

Agreed that most millennials don't even know what Jawa/Yezdi was. But that depends, as most of my cousins (read millennials) know about the legend of Jawa/Yezdi. Courtesy me and fellow seniors who keep talking about motorcycles of the past every time we meet. But in my opinion the character of Jawa/Yezdi was its two stroke rumble which one could identify from a distance without even looking.

Being an RE enthusiast and an owner I look at Jawa/Yezdi as a peer to RE and not enemy. I cannot predict what its launch will have on RE, sales wise. But one thing for sure I know is that it will rekindle the passion of potential buyers and former owners of brand Jawa/Yezdi. I missed the train while Jawa/Yezdi was in production as I didn't start earning then. But if Mahindra pulls it off then I can consider owning one albeit would have loved the two stroke version.

Given a choice I would've opted for the Jawa 350 Retro two stroke model from the variants given on their UK website.
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Old 29th June 2018, 16:58   #10
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shumi_21 View Post
I don't think it would be a good idea to play the tradition game with RE. The simple reason being millennials (me included), have little to no idea about the legacy of Jawa motorcycles.
Well, in that case most millennials shouldn't even know the RD350. But, thanks to the enthusiasts of those days who have managed to pass on a portion of the cult following to the next generations.

Irrespective of whether Mahindra can revive the brand, these vintage vehicles do have some cult following even in today's world. Try searching for a well maintained/restored RD350 HT/Yezdi Roadking/G2 Engined RE, the owner is most likely a millennial.

Last edited by jetsetgo08 : 29th June 2018 at 17:00.
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Old 30th June 2018, 13:36   #11
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

I can't wait for this bike, and I think there is definitely a market for it that Royal Enfield is ruling simply because of the lack of alternatives. Here's the demographic that I think other manufacturers are missing out on.

The target buyer is
  • An 30+ year old IT or other relatively well-paid professional
  • An "enthusiast", who is just not happy with a 100cc / 150cc bike anymore. Needs something with a fair amount of brand/image
  • A family-man, who wants the pillion seat to be a traditional flat, wide seat for family (its not about whether this person can afford a car; a bike is just more convenient in traffic)
  • Image: It looks like an old-school, metal, "solid" bike. Not a plastic bike with boy-racer looks.

Royal Enfield hits this sweet spot. I hope to see more bikes from Jawa / Triumph etc (even Japanese - maybe smaller versions of bikes like XSR or CB1100) to fill this gap.
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Old 1st July 2018, 16:04   #12
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Even if millennials can't (or don't care to) remember the Jawa / Yezdi scorchers, one's got to admit that retro styled bikes, with the right acoustics accompanying it (a reverberating , thumping dug-dug-dug or the trademark potato-potato-potato) are still somewhat of a hot commodity in the Indian motorcycle scene.

Give it sufficient metal, a thumping can, some retro style and the bike will still tug at the heartstrings of Indian motorcyclists - not much else is needed ! Two manufacturers have understood this only too well and with their marketing teams going all out with buzzwords like heritage, brotherhood, soul etc - they're raking in all the moolah!

This is surely a well paying niche segment, and that's the reason why Mr Mahindra finds eminent economical sense to invest in it (as they say, it's all about the money, honey). Jawa would be just the cheaper, more affordable, modern (& hopefully more reliable)face of his strategy and IMO will directly target RE. BSA, on the other hand should start from a segment higher and will be revealed next to take on the other player who is milking its so called 'heritage' for all it's worth.

Not to forget Bajaj , who, given their tie-up with Triumph, should spawn something retro-classic with a ~ 500-600cc displacement and take on RE.

All said and done, this only bodes well for those looking for a retro classic styled motorcycle. All these new entrants, given their R&D and Quality Control, should bring in some decently powerful, affordable, safe and more importantly, reliable competition to RE, which will then need to up its ante and start paying attention to better technology and stringent QC.

Cheers !

Last edited by Ironhide : 1st July 2018 at 16:06. Reason: Spelling
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Old 1st July 2018, 20:48   #13
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by tharian View Post
The advantage with Enfield was that they already had a 4 stroke engine when other manufacturers had two stroke bikes only. This could help them be in continuous production and probably one of the reasons the brand hasn't been forgotten like the Yezdi/Jawa.

If Mahindra has to be brink back Jawa, it would end up like the Mojo for the same reasons many have mentioned before.
Even if they put a modern 4 stroke engine on the similar looking bikes like Roadking and the 350, they would hardly be any takers, simply because they don't look modern to the majority buyers.
What they should be doing is move forward rather than look back and leave Yezdi as it was in the minds of people who remember it.
Definitely its due to the four stroke engine the bullet has survived so long apart from the die-hard fan following which it enjoys. With emission norms becoming strict the time for the two stroke engines is long over. Couldn’t agree more that reviving old legends is not a easy job and most of the time the initiatives backfire.
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Old 1st July 2018, 22:24   #14
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Default re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssambyal1980 View Post
...most of the time the initiatives backfire.
I want to add though - most of the time the revival of old names tends to be, for lack of a better word, terrible. For example
  • CBZ - CBZ Extreme
  • Zen - Zen Estilo
  • Karizma -ZMA
... and so on.

However I do have hopes for Jawa looking at the design. (fingers crossed)

Last edited by rajushank84 : 1st July 2018 at 22:36.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 10:25   #15
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Default Re: Anand Mahindra: Jawa Motorcycles could be first major threat to Royal Enfield

My 2 cents,

1. The engine, which is supposed to power the Jawa is not the same as the Mojo's.
It's a 400cc lump, which has it's origins in China (Shinray).

2. Going by Mojo's pricing, an RE Electra/CL350 rivaling pricing is difficult (Given that the Jawa will have a larger engine and Nostalgia tag).
It may not be of any serious threat to RE, due to the price factor alone.
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