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Old 2nd July 2018, 21:43   #1
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Default Horns for bikes & scooters

Hi Guys,

I couldn't find a thread dedicated to after market standard horns and I didn't find it appropriate to post my query in the Power Horns! thread, hence why I thought of creating this thread to discuss about aftermarket "Standard" horns, be it for replacement or as an add-on.

So coming to the query at hand;

Recently I've gone through a Battery delete on my CT100B i.e the motorcycle runs directly from the stator, as the mod arouse out of necessity I had prior to the mod upgraded to a a Roots Smartone which has a 3 Amp rating, stock being 2 Amp and inaudible. Also having a habit of running with my headlights ON 24x7 and using an indicator buzzer for safety reasons I currently face the issue of excess draw when honking multiple times at crawling speeds with the indicator on.

Turning the headlight OFF is not an option, scrapping the indicator buzzer's is also not an option, so the only option in front of me is to go for a louder 2 Amp(Wanted to try 1.5 Amp horns but they don't seem to be available in India) horn.

Hence I've looked around a bit and come to shortlist the below two options and I would kindly like for you to share your thoughts on which option to go for.

Option 1: Hella 922300241 Mach 11 High Tone Single Horn

Horns for bikes & scooters-hella.png

Option 2: Bosch F002H50940 Sharptone Horn

Horns for bikes & scooters-bosch.png

I have used neither and only tried Addon/Roots tractor/car horns as standard replacements to date, hence user experiences would also help a lot.

Thanks in advance.

A.P.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 09:55   #2
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

Mod Note: Thread moved to the 2-wheeler section.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 10:31   #3
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
Turning the headlight OFF is not an option, scrapping the indicator buzzer's is also not an option, so the only option in front of me is to go for a louder 2 Amp(Wanted to try 1.5 Amp horns but they don't seem to be available in India) horn.
You shouldn't have removed the battery because it acts as a storage unit for electrical power and supplies power when alternator/generator output falls short of the demand. Was the battery being undercharged?

Thing is most Indian commuter bikes of in the 100-125 cc family have underpowered generators. Switching on the headlight continously, for safety I assume, is a load of approx 3 A, 35 W @ 12 VDC + tail lamp about 0.5 A and speedo light another 0.5 A puts a total of of 4 to 4.5 A. Also, in city brakes are frequently used which means the brake lamp goes on, add on another 1-2 A since it is generally brighter than the tail lamp itself.

All this combined with slow city speeds is possibly leaving little surplus power to operate the single disc horn which require 2-3 A depending on the model you buy. You need to minimise the load to let the generator charge the battery to full and also supply extra power to the horn. I'd say get a horn of up to max 2 A, certainly not the more powerful dual disc ones. Between the 2 models below I'd choose the Hella Hightone.

Last edited by R2D2 : 3rd July 2018 at 10:38.
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Old 3rd July 2018, 10:45   #4
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
Recently I've gone through a Battery delete on my CT100B...
Option 1: Hella 922300241 Mach 11 High Tone Single Horn

Option 2: Bosch F002H50940 Sharptone Horn
Take a look at cycle horns. Many of the cyclists in our group have these electric horns. It is especially useful when the lead guys have this horn. Only drawback is the rechargeable batteries that you'll have to manage. These are waterproof as well.

Sample video:
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Old 3rd July 2018, 14:38   #5
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
You shouldn't have removed the battery because it acts as a storage unit for electrical power and supplies power when alternator/generator output falls short of the demand. Was the battery being undercharged?

Thing is most Indian commuter bikes of in the 100-125 cc family have underpowered generators. Switching on the headlight continously, for safety I assume, is a load of approx 3 A, 35 W @ 12 VDC + tail lamp about 0.5 A and speedo light another 0.5 A puts a total of of 4 to 4.5 A. Also, in city brakes are frequently used which means the brake lamp goes on, add on another 1-2 A since it is generally brighter than the tail lamp itself.

All this combined with slow city speeds is possibly leaving little surplus power to operate the single disc horn which require 2-3 A depending on the model you buy. You need to minimise the load to let the generator charge the battery to full and also supply extra power to the horn. I'd say get a horn of up to max 2 A, certainly not the more powerful dual disc ones.
Same thing was advised by a fellow enthusiast who has around 1.5L km's on his Platina 125, but what convinced me to think otherwise is that the CT100B while running on battery never faced battery drain with only the Horn Buzzer and the rest of the things stock, the first sign on drain arose after the 3 Amp horn upgrade.

Hence I believe that other than an Indicator Buzzer even with the battery on board there was some noticeable drain on multiple application at crawl speeds.

Due to the raised idle to stop flickering for good everything works well at idle, the issue only arises at under 20kmph speeds and can be somewhat resolved by disconnecting the Buzzer and can completely be avoided by turning off the Head Light, but I wish to keep both as it is for safety reasons, as much as I love motorcycling I'm equally scared of it.

As for the battery, trust me when I say that it is absolutely useless and equally expensive. The stock battery died on me with the motorcycle being barely 1.5 years old and just over 22k km's. It might be my usage for all I know but with only the capacitor in place everything works better as nearing the end of the battery's life the battery was somehow drawing more current than the rest of the electrical's i.e speedo dimming in sync with indicators etc.

Fingers crossed on things getting back to normal.

Quote:
Between the 2 models below I'd choose the Hella Hightone
Advice taken and order placed.

On a different note have also ordered a Hella Wiring kit for the P220, I have a pair of unused Bosch Symphony I'm thinking of adding to the P220 considering the highway speeds its capable of, in spite of the dual horn stock setup directly connecting them would cause the BCU to detect excess draw and shut down power intermittently.

If all works well then Hella would be my go to brand, though I've heard only good things about them I was a bit skeptical having also heard that the Indian make's aren't up to the mark, lets see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
Take a look at cycle horns. Many of the cyclists in our group have these electric horns. It is especially useful when the lead guys have this horn. Only drawback is the rechargeable batteries that you'll have to manage. These are waterproof as well.
Have considered the same for my cycles, and it sounds like a good investment, though the same would not be advisable for motorcycle use, especially considering the variables involved while touring, and nothing breaks confidence as much as a faulty head light or horn while on the return leg of a long run which most probably would be in the dark.

Last edited by ashwinprakas : 3rd July 2018 at 14:40. Reason: Removed Video URL
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Old 3rd July 2018, 18:26   #6
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
the first sign on drain arose after the 3 Amp horn upgrade.
See, that's where the problem lies, you are overloading the generator. The Pulsar's generator is far more powerful than the CT100's which is why they have brighter headlamps and of course those twin horns. I had 2 Pulsars 180s back in the early to mid 2000s but sold them off as I hardly used them.

Quote:
some noticeable drain on multiple application at crawl speeds.
All smaller bikes will suffer from these problems. You need to keep in mind their limited generator capacity.

Quote:
Due to the raised idle to stop flickering for good everything works well at idle, the issue only arises at under 20kmph speeds and can be somewhat resolved by disconnecting the Buzzer and can completely be avoided by turning off the Head Light, but I wish to keep both as it is for safety reasons, as much as I love motorcycling I'm equally scared of it.
The generator hardly outputs power at 20 kmph especially in 4th gear. You need to drop down to 3rd to increase the revs so it pumps out more.

Quote:
As for the battery, trust me when I say that it is absolutely useless and equally expensive....the battery was somehow drawing more current than the rest of the electrical's i.e speedo dimming in sync with indicators etc.
They are expensive but last well if you look after them and maintenance includes proper charging. As the battery ages or gets sulphated it will draw more current and take more time to come back to 100% SOC.

Quote:
On a different note have also ordered a Hella Wiring kit for the P220, I have a pair of unused Bosch Symphony I'm thinking of adding to the P220 considering the highway speeds its capable of, in spite of the dual horn stock setup directly connecting them would cause the BCU to detect excess draw and shut down power intermittently.
Hmm, the Pulsar generator should have enough grunt to power the Bosch Symphony. But always keep in mind that you are using a horn designed for a car's way more powerful electrical system on a bike.

Quote:
Hella would be my go to brand, though I've heard only good things about them I was a bit skeptical having also heard that the Indian make's aren't up to the mark, lets see.
If you compare specs of Bosch and Hella horns the latter are louder.

I've been using Hella Red Grilles since Sept/Oct '17 and they're lovely getting people (some actually jump!) and traffic out of the way FAST. I don't expect them to last very long though, possibly <2 years unlike the OEM Roots horns that went on for 9+ years in my car and were replaced only because of a broken spade connector. The horn itself was fully functional. I've also bought other Hella horns and a Roots Smarttone set, including the Hella chrome trumpets, just in case my Red Grilles fail. One needs to have loud horns in this country to get attention.

Last edited by R2D2 : 3rd July 2018 at 18:27.
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Old 8th July 2018, 21:18   #7
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

Received my Horn and hooked it up, the bad news is that it is a 3Amp horn as well, the upside is that its noticeably loud and since my mom's car was due for a horn change I installed the Roots 3Amp on it and kept the Hella 3Amp on the CT100B. Left without an option as I was not intending on ordering another horn for trial and error I decided to scrap the Indicator buzzer for the time being, all is working well, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Hmm, the Pulsar generator should have enough grunt to power the Bosch Symphony. But always keep in mind that you are using a horn designed for a car's way more powerful electrical system on a bike.
The generator has more than enough oomph but its the BCU that's the problem, anything over the stock draw and the thing cuts off supply.

I received the Hella Wiring Harness

The last time I wired a windtone was at least half a decade ago and what I remember is that two pins on the relay would control the switch, one pin would go to the battery + terminal and the remaining pin would power the horns.

Now coming to the matter at hand, there seems to be a blue wire which I'm uncertain of what to do with.

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Seeing the live wire being allotted for two pins and the one one wire intended for the horn switch being black I presume that Hella has decided that the switch would be a negative lead which I'm fine with but how do I find out whether that is how my motorcycle is wired, if not then am I supposed to swap the red and black pins position?

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More of a rant, why is the switch lead a female!

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My mind tells me to crop it and add a male spade connector, would that be the right way to go about it? Asking as I have a kind of stock fetish when it comes to all things wiring and would prefer to go for the least intrusive route.

Sorry for bombarding with queries, I happened to see that you've ordered the same kit so thought of clarifying things rather than shooting myself in the foot.
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Old 9th July 2018, 10:09   #8
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
Received my Horn and hooked it up, the bad news is that it is a 3Amp horn as well, the upside is that its noticeably loud and since my mom's car was due for a horn change I installed the Roots 3Amp on it and kept the Hella 3Amp on the CT100B. Left without an option as I was not intending on ordering another horn for trial and error I decided to scrap the Indicator buzzer for the time being, all is working well, period.
Most car horns are 3 A and higher. I'd recommend downloading the Hella IOS or Android app. You can 'audition' the horns and they have specs for all but power draw is something you may want to hunt for on their India and international sites. There are slight differences in names between what we get here and the same model overseas.

Do note, one key difference between car and bike horns is degree of water proofing. Bike horns are designed to withstand more water splashes and rain while car horns are not as they are mounted inside the bonnet or behind the front grille. This is one of the reasons I always prefer to use a part manufactured for a specific purpose.

Quote:
I received the Hella Wiring Harness
It has been configured for negative switched circuits while a large majority are positive switched. so you'd need to modify it. Why this way? I dunno. This is how you wire it: Hella Harness Wiring Instructions You would also need a crimper and the appropriately sized spade connectors

Quote:
More of a rant, why is the switch lead a female! Asking as I have a kind of stock fetish when it comes to all things wiring and would prefer to go for the least intrusive route.
Once again this one more 'feature' I have not been able to figure out. I console myself with the thought Germans are "thoda hat ke". Just crimp on a male connector instead.

Quote:
Sorry for bombarding with queries, I happened to see that you've ordered the same kit so thought of clarifying things rather than shooting myself in the foot.
No worries. Happy to help The Hella wiring harness is well made and should last a really long time. Just make sure that relay is protected from the elements. It is not weather proof.

Last edited by R2D2 : 9th July 2018 at 10:11.
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Old 9th July 2018, 19:58   #9
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

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It has been configured for negative switched circuits while a large majority are positive switched. so you'd need to modify it. Why this way? I dunno. This is how you wire it: Hella Harness Wiring Instructions You would also need a crimper and the appropriately sized spade connectors
Got an old school wire crimper for 550/- and a couple of connectors both spade and ring as running a multi-meter test showed that my stock horn switch controlled the positive current, then got various sizes of heat shrink sleeves and got to work;

This is what I started with;

Stock (Negative Switch)

Pin 30 & Pin 85– Red Wire – Battery (+) Terminal
Pin 86 – Black Wire – Switch
Pin 87 – Blue & Green Wires – Horns

This is what I ended with;

Altered (Positive Switch)

Pin 30 – Red Wire – Battery (+) Terminal
Pin 86 – Blue Wire (Spare) – Battery (-) Terminal
Pin 85 – Black Wire - Switch
Pin 87 – Blue & Green Wires – Horns

I am particularly happy as I was able to put the extra blue spare wire to use, plus there was no wire joining/soldering etc involved as I pushed out the pins and did a clean replace.

Last edited by ashwinprakas : 9th July 2018 at 19:59.
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Old 9th July 2018, 21:12   #10
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This is what I ended with;
Pin 30 – Red Wire – Battery (+) Terminal
Pin 86 – Blue Wire (Spare) – Battery (-) Terminal
Pin 85 – Black Wire - Switch
Pin 87 – Blue & Green Wires – Horns
Actually this is how it's done. It's there in the Hella PDF too. See 2(b)
  • Pin 30 - To the battery's positive terminal
  • Pin 85 - To ground/chassis (you connected it to the horn button or switch which is a +ve feed)
  • Pin 86 - To your existing horn switch output wire i.e. the trigger.
  • Pin 87 - To the horns

Just interchange 85 (to ground, preferably near the horns not the battery) and 86 to switch. It's a simple swap of the connectors.

Last edited by R2D2 : 9th July 2018 at 21:14.
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Old 9th July 2018, 21:49   #11
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Actually this is how it's done. It's there in the Hella PDF too. See 2(b)
  • Pin 30 - To the battery's positive terminal
  • Pin 85 - To ground/chassis (you connected it to the horn button or switch which is a +ve feed)
  • Pin 86 - To your existing horn switch output wire i.e. the trigger.
  • Pin 87 - To the horns

Just interchange 85 (to ground, preferably near the horns not the battery) and 86 to switch. It's a simple swap of the connectors.
Yes it is a simple swap, and coming to think of it, I believe that's why the double female spare blue wire was provided in the first place.

Anyhow, though I took an unnecessary detour all is working well, I'm a bit skeptical about what would happen to the Symphony in the long run due to my type of use, guess all we can do is wait and watch.
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Old 18th February 2019, 20:32   #12
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Default Re: Horns for bikes & scooters

An old thread but would love to hear whats the latest trumpet type horns that are perfect for a bike (310R). Stock horns are just basic, good enough for a quiet road. It begs for a powerful horn on the highway.

I have been checking the Bosch, Hella, Denali etc. but specially designed for Bikes are not many !
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Old 18th February 2019, 21:41   #13
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Originally Posted by shajufx View Post
An old thread but would love to hear whats the latest trumpet type horns that are perfect for a bike (310R). Stock horns are just basic, good enough for a quiet road. It begs for a powerful horn on the highway.

I have been checking the Bosch, Hella, Denali etc. but specially designed for Bikes are not many !
Rather that Trumphet's you could go for Hella's Supertone(Red Grill) or Sharptone(Yellow Grill), though the color combo is awkward, they're more suited for motorcycle use taking their resilience to water into consideration.

I use Bosch Symphony Trumpets on my Bajaj Pulsar 220 with Hella harness, the only reason I went for Trumpets was because I had a pair laying around, else would've gone for the Red Grill Supertone.

Cheers,
A.P.
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Old 18th February 2019, 22:20   #14
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Rather that Trumphet.....the only reason I went for Trumpets was because I had a pair laying around, else would've gone for the Red Grill....
I like Skoda type horn but not sure how it's going to drain the bike battery. I am fine with red grill because my bike is red 😎 Will check the audio online and the dimensions before deciding. Thanks
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