[aargee]

What is wrong with Honda?
When Kawi bought in Ninja 250, Honda was not very late to introduce C250R in 2011 & its 2018 & still there's no upgrades with 250 except for cosmetics. While the competitors (not taking the aggressive KTM/Bajaj as we all know how product concentric they are) like even Kawi with their huge pricing through CKD, has forayed into 300, 400 & 650 & have topped their line of SBKs very well.

In 2008, when FZ was first introduced, we too made fun as who might buy such a funny looking motorcycle. It has a delayed start in picking sales, however, today no matter how good looking is XBlade, Hornet, CBU160 sharing the same engine, very rare to see them on road while there's atleast 10 of the FZ on road. Hell!! Even the Gixxer 150 is easy to spot than these Hondas.

Honda had CBR 300 & 500 built with the same 250R engine, they could've simply bought them here & I'm sure the early bird could've flocked some good numbers. But they were buttering the 7 automatic scooters than motorcycles is probably the main factor why they're falling behind the sales now. Probably if they segregate their scooters & motorcycles as a spun off company or have dual dealerships focusing on scooters & motorcycles & post independent profit & loss with them, it should help with growth of Honda motorcycles in India

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by sukiwa

Not just Versys 650, even Z650 & Vulcan S show zero dispatches in last 4 months; is something wrong with data?

Cross checked the data once again with AutoPunditz and you're right. Not that the data is wrong - but it is zero for last three months.

These are dealer dispatches and small players like Kawasaki tend to prioritize the production of one model over the other certain months. I personally know people who have taken delivery of the Versys 650 the previous month.

However, Kawasaki seems to have prioritised production and dealer dispatches. September for Ninja 300, 1000 and 650. August for the ZX10R and July for the Ninja 650.

[neil.jericho]

Thanks for sharing, there are some interesting details hidden away in the numbers
- Bajaj dispatched 46.8% more (67,450 against 45,921 units) Platinas as compared to August 2018. Thats quite a leap. And its not like the numbers in August were a drop in the year. Very interesting to see how this pans out in the next few months.
- The Pulsar 220 with 8586 units outsells the Duke 200, Duke 250, Duke 390, Dominar and V15 combined! Astounding to see the old workhorse do so well so many years later.
- Who keeps ordering Karizmas these days? The logistics of manufacturing and transporting these 10 odd units every month must be annoying the Hero folks no end!
- Honda havent been able to dipatch a single CBR1000RR all year? Thats sad.
- The count of 49 Ninja 1000s is probably the highest that Kawasaki has ever dispatched of the model. I hope now at least dealers can clear the backlogs and decide to keep one bike each as test ride bikes.
- No ZX14Rs and V1000s for the year is quite surprising.
- How much better would the Piaggio numbers look if they had the RS150 on sale today? It could eliminate the R15 easily.
- The new Thunderbird platform seems to have reinvigorated the line for Royal Enfield.
- Triumph sold less of the more affordable Triple S model (7 units) against the much more expensive RS (9 units). The S has more competition against the Kawasaki Z900 (ironically sold only one unit) and the Suzuki GSX S750 (5 units). The more expensive (and safe to assume profitable) RS has much less direct competition in the market.
- The venerable XL Super Moped came in tantalizingly close to the 1 lac mark, super impressive!
- No MT09s and R1s sold by Yamaha in India. No test ride bikes and no real push from Yamaha India. I wonder what fate awaits the R6 it they ever decide to bring it in.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Thanks for sharing, there are some interesting details hidden away in the numbers
- The Pulsar 220 with 8586 units outsells the Duke 200, Duke 250, Duke 390, Dominar and V15 combined! Astounding to see the old workhorse do so well so many years later.

Always a pleasure to read you bringing up the hidden stories. Your post in the June 2015 thread was the reason for the KTM graph. Above is a very interesting one too. Indians seem to favour tried and tested products, don't they?

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- Honda havent been able to dipatch a single CBR1000RR all year? Thats sad.

Sounds strange to me too, and I cross checked the data before posting. Strange that CB1000R is selling, when the CBR is not. I thought the latter was much more competitive and well priced.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- No ZX14Rs and V1000s for the year is quite surprising.

V1000 has been discontinued officially now. ZX14 is struggling against the well priced Busa and the much more aggressive H2SX.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

he more expensive (and safe to assume profitable) RS has much less direct competition in the market.

The way i see it - Street Triple already has a premium price tag. Might as well stretch a little more and get the RS if the heart is indeed set on the Triple. Else Z900 and GSXS750 make good VFM options.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- No MT09s and R1s sold by Yamaha in India. No test ride bikes and no real push from Yamaha India. I wonder what fate awaits the R6 it they ever decide to bring it in.

Infact - no superbikes sold by Yamaha in India. They seem the least interested, keeping these options only as website flagships.

[rkavthekar]

BMW data seems to be missing. How many BMW 310's sold in September? I believe it opened for bookings in August.

take care and ride safely
Rajesh

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by rkavthekar

BMW data seems to be missing. How many BMW 310's sold in September? I believe it opened for bookings in August.

take care and ride safely
Rajesh

BMW Motorrad does not publish their data every month, but from their press release this month - we do know that they sold 1038 motorcycles from Jan till September 2018.

We can only assume the breakup - But it should have a good majority of 310s.

[R-Six]

Looking at the number of Himalayans dispatched by RE, I feel that the market is liking the updated Himalayan with ABS. MoM change of 111.9% might be due to the fact that RE might have cut down on the dispatches in August due to the production of the refreshed models.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Always a pleasure to read you bringing up the hidden stories. Your post in the June 2015 thread was the reason for the KTM graph. Above is a very interesting one too. Indians seem to favour tried and tested products, don't they?

I know this data would not be available to us but it would be fascinating to see how these bikes sell in the metros, tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3 towns. From my limited experience in South India, I have seen that the KTMs are sold in far greater numbers in the metros and big cities. Head out though and the performance bikes that you see in the smaller towns and villages are either the P220 and / or the R15.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Sounds strange to me too, and I cross checked the data before posting. Strange that CB1000R is selling, when the CBR is not. I thought the latter was much more competitive and well priced.

A fellow riding enthusiast in Bangalore reached out to me yesterday and confirmed that he has seen a Fireblade SP that was sold in Bangalore a few months ago. Now its unlikely that a dealer was sitting on an unsold SP for 2018, so there might be some discrepancies in the Honda numbers.

Also, the Africa Twin numbers look to be a little low to me. I dont have any official numbers to provide but from what I know, these numbers also seem to be a little off.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

V1000 has been discontinued officially now. ZX14 is struggling against the well priced Busa and the much more aggressive H2SX.

As strange as it sounds, the ZX14R struggles because its no longer the biggest and baddest bike from Kawasaki. Those who want a reasonably priced monster (no pun intended) earlier chose between the Hayabusa and the ZX14R. The Busa is now the affordable choice and the H2R / H2SX is the option for those who want next level power and technology and maybe to boast that they bought the most expensive big bike out there.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The way i see it - Street Triple already has a premium price tag. Might as well stretch a little more and get the RS if the heart is indeed set on the Triple. Else Z900 and GSXS750 make good VFM options.

Yes, you are bang on the money with this. I felt the new gen Street Triple S is super expensive for what it offers. A lovely bike yes, but that price tag is quite high given that there is some stiff competition in that segment. If I had to buy a new middle class bike today, my money would be on the GSXS750.


The Triple RS is a step above all these for sure and is perfect for track day enthusiasts. But the suspension is super stiff and that could be a deal breaker for many. It was for me.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Infact - no superbikes sold by Yamaha in India. They seem the least interested, keeping these options only as website flagships.

I dont know why Yamaha bothered with sending automotive journalists to test ride the MT09 and the refreshed version. That said I spotted a lovely blue R1 yesterday off the L&T bypass so at least one customer has bought a big bike from them (though maybe not in 2018)!

[Thermodynamics]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Also, extremely reactive rather than innovative in the Indian market - not using their dominant position to expand their product portfolio further.

I live close to the TVS factory at Hosur, have interacted with TVS employees working in R&D. I heard, in many R&D projects, their usual benchmark is Honda. That speaks about the quality of Honda. Unfortunately, HMSI is not capitalizing on things they can offer. They need not even innovate, they already have everything to give the rest of the players a run for their money.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I dont know why Yamaha bothered with sending automotive journalists to test ride the MT09 and the refreshed version

Quite Simple.

These efforts in the end held sell the Scooters and FZ's off the Yamaha Showrooms.

By the way it was Yamaha who were the Pioneers to start the Big Bike Movement in India in 2007 (with the R1 and MT01)... even before Harley Davidson.

But look where Harley is right now and the only big bikes from Yamaha are only on its WEBSITE. It seems that those moves in 2007 were just to create a launch pad to sell the R15 and FZ16 (and subsequently the Scooters).

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

A fellow riding enthusiast in Bangalore reached out to me yesterday and confirmed that he has seen a Fireblade SP that was sold in Bangalore a few months ago. Now its unlikely that a dealer was sitting on an unsold SP for 2018, so there might be some discrepancies in the Honda numbers.

Also, the Africa Twin numbers look to be a little low to me. I dont have any official numbers to provide but from what I know, these numbers also seem to be a little off.

Very less chances of Africa Twin numbers being wrong, but i think the CBR 1000RR data is getting interchanged with CB1000R, which might not be selling.

Will try to ask Autopunditz to cross check the data.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Very less chances of Africa Twin numbers being wrong, but i think the CBR 1000RR data is getting interchanged with CB1000R, which might not be selling.

Will try to ask Autopunditz to cross check the data.

Thanks, that will be great. Meanwhile I just hopped on over to the Facebook page of the Silicon Honda (Bangalore) dealership and found that they have delivered several Fireblades in 2018.

[jpcoolguy]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

True. And those top five products have been in the market forever as well, except for Jupiter which is a more recent entry.

Actually, if you consider XL Super then Jupiter will be pushed down to 6th place with Splendour, Activa, HF Deluxe, XL Super and Passion occupying the Top 5 and like you already said they contribute almost 50% of the total motorcycles sold.

Originally Posted by daretodream

4. Suzuki Access showing higher volumes inspire of new launches (Ntorq, Grazia, Bergman). Just shows how the scooter market is increasing!

Scooter market, or for that the entry level Motorcycles market is very price senstive and these new scooters are priced over a premium to the old workhorses like Access, Activa, Jupiter, Maestro, etc. which explains the reason for the volumes.

[sainyamk95]

I've been thinking of buying a used Mojo for the longest time now. I'll probably pick one up before the next monsoon. But its sales numbers are horrifying to say the least. I wonder if they'll pull the plug on it in the near future.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by sainyamk95

I've been thinking of buying a used Mojo for the longest time now. I'll probably pick one up before the next monsoon. But its sales numbers are horrifying to say the least. I wonder if they'll pull the plug on it in the near future.

Since you've waited so long, better to wait a couple of months more. With Jawa coming out soon and Mahindra really hoping it would be the real rival against Enfield - it remains to be seen if Mojo does have a real future at all.