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Old 26th November 2018, 17:57   #31
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

RR 310 seems to be settling around 500 mark, where in TVS wanted to do around 1K a month. The initial negativity has had it's impact, and seems the dealer network is still not ready to handle customers for this genre. The product in in itself is excellent, specially after the niggles have been taken care of, hope they can at least get to 750-800 number and settle there.

But then again if jupiter is doing so well, why would dealers bother to push and invest on a product selling in max double digits a month. TVS need a better marketing strategy, i post this, since we are in marketing discussion mode on this thread :P

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Old 26th November 2018, 18:38   #32
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

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Thanks Crazy Driver for doing this analysis now on consistent basis. Hoping to see this every month in future.

Few observations from my side
Thanks for this detailed post. Such discussions make the analysis worthwhile.

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- Ntorq has beaten Grazia and the sales of both are exactly in the opposite direction - Ntorq is going higher and higher and Grazia has fallen lower and lower. The launch of Burgman Street has only made the life of Grazia misery with the former too beating the latter. Not sure what will be the impact of the new launch in the segment - Hero Destini.
Grazia has very less product differentiation compared to its peers. Highlight was the LED headlamps probably which almost every scooter gets now.

Burgman has size and NTorq has features going for it - and both perform well too.

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The initial negativity has had it's impact, and seems the dealer network is still not ready to handle customers for this genre.
I still think they should have had lower prices atleast for the initial few months post launch. Just didn't create the initial impact with the launch as the product deserved.
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Old 26th November 2018, 18:45   #33
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

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I still think they should have had lower prices atleast for the initial few months post launch. Just didn't create the initial impact with the launch as the product deserved.
True, but i had a talk with a MD in TVS and he admitted that they are operating on wafer thin margins on the RR, which is as good as nothing(Probably PR talks), probably they did not want to make losses. I am sure they would be paying quite a bit of royalty to BMW for part sharing. That said i agree a 1.99 lacs starting price would have definitely made a better impact.
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Old 26th November 2018, 21:35   #34
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

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- After 4 months of the SR125 outselling the SR150, Aprilia seems to be pushing the SR150 again. Higher purchase price and higher profits. Win win.
Seems like the SR 150 and SR 125 values are interchanged for past few months. Below is the data I have -
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October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis-aprilia_sales.png  

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Old 26th November 2018, 21:42   #35
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

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Seems like the SR 150 and SR 125 values are interchanged for past few months. Below is the data I have -
Thank you. Looks like a mistake from my end. Will get that corrected.

Btw : Whats the source of that sheet? You're maintaining the excel locally from Autopunditz data, or some other source?
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Old 27th November 2018, 07:11   #36
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

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Btw : Whats the source of that sheet? You're maintaining the excel locally from Autopunditz data, or some other source?
Source is AutoPunditz' monthly sales figures and maintained locally.
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Old 27th November 2018, 07:43   #37
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

Mod Note: No off-topic posts please. Some have been deleted. Thanks!
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Old 27th November 2018, 09:32   #38
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

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I am sure they would be paying quite a bit of royalty to BMW for part sharing. That said i agree a 1.99 lacs starting price would have definitely made a better impact.
Is that the model between TVS and BMW? I just assumed that BMW leveraged TVS's engineering expertise and ability to build motorcycles in the lower capacity segments. And TVS in turn built its own motorcycles based on the shared platform.


On a semi related note, while analyzing the 310 platform, I feel that TVS has certainly negotiated well from their side. I would have assumed that the logical split of 2 BMW and 1 TVS bikes would have been - one GS 310 and one asymmetric S310RR (throw in fancy suspension, big brembos etc) for BMW and a naked Apache 310 for TVS. Instead TVS got the best looking (maybe debatable but it is popular opinion) of the 3 and have their first fully faired bike that extends the Apache platform from its traditional naked looks.

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Seems like the SR 150 and SR 125 values are interchanged for past few months. Below is the data I have -
This makes a lot more sense than my speculation on the earlier numbers.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 13:51   #39
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

There was some discussion on one of the whatsapp groups regarding the Yamaha big bike sales for the year. A member mentioned that his friends had bought a MT09 and a R1 in Coimbatore in the last 6 months. So its likely that the Yamaha big bike numbers are also incorrect.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 14:20   #40
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Speaking of the Dominar, its sad to see such a competent bike not do well in the market. That's one dud that Bajaj's marketing campaign can take full credit for.
You mean customer's buy/prefer products based on the Marketing Campaign?

Dominar isn't selling as its supposed to be, because the Customer is NOT Buying. Not becuse of its Ad Campaign.

Why? Just like the way, the brilliant Pulsar NS200 doesn't manage to outsell the archaic Pulsar 220 despite being superior in every aspect. Any surprises why manufacturers find it easy to churn out "Neon" versions of best sellers instead?

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Old 3rd December 2018, 17:55   #41
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You mean customer's buy/prefer products based on the Marketing Campaign?

Dominar isn't selling as its supposed to be, because the Customer is NOT Buying. Not becuse of its Ad Campaign.
The question is why is the customer not buying the Dominar? I've laid out my hypothesis related to mixed messaging over time that diluted the Dominar brand's values (though they have now isolated their biggest strength which is touring, better late than never). The Dominar branding itself was probably a mistake in hindsight but that's another discussion for another time.


That said, Im sure there might be other factors involved in people not buying the Dominar / the Dominar not selling as its supposed to be. I dont know what they are and through this forum hope to learn about other perspectives on this market flop. I didnt really your last paragraph though. I understand the NS200 is not selling better than the old workhorse, the Pulsar 220. But I didnt understand why from your post.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 18:03   #42
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

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There was some discussion on one of the whatsapp groups regarding the Yamaha big bike sales for the year. A member mentioned that his friends had bought a MT09 and a R1 in Coimbatore in the last 6 months. So its likely that the Yamaha big bike numbers are also incorrect.
Yes. Could be.

Also, hearing that the next India dispatch for the Africa Twin will only be after mid-2019.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 20:06   #43
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

Please tell us why you think the name Dominar was wrong branding? I quite like it. What could have been right as per you? The initial hoopla was around the bright lights, that was a recipe for disaster. But, I'm not seeing this as a tourer for some reason, only as a sports city-bike.



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The Dominar branding itself was probably a mistake in hindsight but that's another discussion for another time.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 20:09   #44
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Default Re: October 2018: Two Wheeler Sales Figures & Analysis

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What could have been right as per you?
Answering for myself - Pulsar (CS)400.

It was always meant to be a flagship Pulsar, before Bajaj tried a last minute repositioning to take on a different segment. Pulsar brand was bigger than Bajaj back then - and the bike was very much awaited as a flagship Pulsar ever since it was displayed at the expo as one.

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Old 3rd December 2018, 21:53   #45
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Please tell us why you think the name Dominar was wrong branding? I quite like it. What could have been right as per you? The initial hoopla was around the bright lights, that was a recipe for disaster. But, I'm not seeing this as a tourer for some reason, only as a sports city-bike.
Good question. To properly answer this, we have to step back to Auto Expo 2014 where Bajaj showcased two range topping versions of the Bajaj Pulsar family - the faired SS400 and the naked CS400. The engines in both bikes were derived from the KTM 390s. This certainly was exciting for us back then because these two bikes promised what would have been the best of the Bajaj KTM partnership. Also Bajaj needed a next upgrade from the Pulsar 220 to retain its buyers, especially those who joined them in 2001 with the first Pulsars.


The recipe was simple and yet brilliant. Take one excellent but manic engine from the KTM 390s which were motorcycles that were well priced but honestly still a little out of the reach of a majority of Indian enthusiasts. Retune it if required. Launch a naked (CS) and faired (SS) variant under the Bajaj platform (Bajaj was and still is synonymous with affordable performance motorcycles). Position them as the top of the line Pulsars. Wipe out the market with the combined offerings of the lowest priced CS400, SS400 and the top of the line Duke 390s and RC390s.


But instead, as Crazy Driver pointed out, things changed at the last minute within Bajaj. Suddenly there was the Dominar brand. Sure, core motorcycling fans who followed the CS400 since its Auto Expo 2014 showcase knew what the Dominar was. But what about everyone else, which is the majority of the potential customers? That was mistake number 1 and boy was it a huge one. Why throw away 15 years of carefully built up Pulsar branding and fabulous sales and start afresh with a new unknown brand? Especially when they didnt need to. The Pulsar CS400 fit perfectly in the Pulsar family. Argh! Now they would not only have to build the brand (like what Bajaj did so brilliantly with the definitely male Pulsar campaign) but it would also have to fit within a crowded Bajaj universe of offerings.


So now, one would think that despite the last minute change and the chance to start afresh, Bajaj would have nailed down a picture perfect product positioning and advertising campaign. And I actually thought their first choice of focussing on their strengths of bright lights was smart. One, it was a definite advantage over other bikes and two, the night rides meant a lot of working professionals could go to the Bajaj showroom after work and test the bike out and really experience the difference.


Instead of building on it, they suddenly changed track and decided to try and make fun of the best seller in its price range. Sure, everyone got a chuckle and all that but it was too early in the Dominar brand's lifetime to try and get cheeky when the product wasnt a big seller and didnt have years of proven mind share. Obviously the boffins in Bajaj realized that they were again down the wrong path with the Dominar brand and hence had to change course for a second time and are now focussing on the bikes strengths which is (hyper) touring. They have backed it up with multi country rides on the Dominars that have been well documented that prove how well it can hold its ground in this regard. But your point is also very valid, is it stronger as a sporty city bike and not just a tourer? I can definitely see where you are coming from but again, takes us to mistake number 1.


Going back to the Dominar launch, if only Bajaj had rightly piggy backed on the very strong Pulsar branding, Im sure their sales story would have been very very different. They could have launched the RS400 also and really grabbed a large segment of the buyers in the below Rs 2 lac ex showroom price bracket. By creating a new brand and subsequently flip flopping on their positioning, they took a butter knife to a tank fight.
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