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View Poll Results: Your choice?
Small bike (<400cc) 49 21.40%
Medium (e.g. 400 - 800cc) 155 67.69%
Big (litre class) 25 10.92%
Voters: 229. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11th December 2018, 15:00   #166
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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Why the devotion to RE? Why not pick up what suits your needs best rather than wait for RE to offer it to you?

If money is no object, would you still stick with RE?
Mate first of all I don't know how you deduced as to "Why the devotion to RE?" while addressing me. As I mentioned in this thread earlier that I am satisfied with my current motorcycles' touring abilities. Yes I know that there are better motorcycles around and can better my current ride but I am not looking at taking an immediate plunge.

About money, yeah if I had Eicher stocks I would stick with it dearly, about the motorcycles well why not if it satisfies my needs and riding style. Besides I haven't faced any issues with respect to availability of spare parts and after sales service.

Once again about, "If money is no object, would you still stick with RE?"

We can ask the same question to people who own different motorcycles:

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Versys 650?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Bajaj CT100?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with BMW G310 GS?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Honda Navi?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Pulsar 220?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with RE CL/Tbird 350?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Ducati Multistrada 950?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Triumph Tiger 800?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with BMW F800?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Honda Africa Twin?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Honda Activa?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Yamaha R3?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with KTM Duke 390?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Honda CBR 300?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Kawasaki Ninja 300?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Bajaj Dominar?"

so on an so forth...

People who own them know the purpose and limitations of such machines which makes them choose their rides in the first place. Brand, Budget, etc. comes in secondary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Well said .... the Classic 350/500 are 80's tech being sold in 21st century at inflated prices. They deserve to be in service centers or museums.
Correction, they aren't 80's stuff they're from 50's atleast the design is. The motor though is pushrod which itself isn't all that bad as many pickup trucks and SUV's still use that tech for its ruggedness and simplicity. Whether them RE motorcycles deserve to be in service centers or museums needs to be verified by one's who own them. Looking at the sheer number of RE's on road even today atleast I don't think they will make it to the museums anytime soon.

About the inflated prices bit, well no one till now(except for Mahindra Jawa) offered motorcycles in 350-500cc category in the price range that RE does.

Last edited by aah78 : 11th December 2018 at 23:52. Reason: Posts merged.
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Old 11th December 2018, 15:25   #167
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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
As a big bonnie fan and an ex-owner of an SE 865, i have read some of your travelogue
The feeling of admiration is mutual, nasirkaka. Thank you for the generous compliments!

The point I was making was very generic since it would be the advice I think would fit most on a public forum. My comments are based on assumptions that almost everyone here can afford a fairly competent motorcycle - rising disposable incomes, improved lending facilities, better infrastructure etc, make that possible so accessibility to a motorcycle is not an issue. However, not everyone can afford a Tiger or multiple motorcycles or live with depreciation. Your points are absolutely valid, if someone can afford a Tiger/Versys and a Bonneville then that's a very versatile combination to have or if someone can switch to a motorcycle that suits their needs, they absolutely should.


Since this thread is about touring, my advice to the readers would be to focus on the spirit of riding rather than the tool. All the terms used by motorcycle companies to define motorcycles and the hyper segmentation that accompanies it makes little sense to me.

Adventure motorcycle is not a type of motorcycle, it is a frame of mind. If someone tours the length and breath of a country on a CL350 (and many do) is the bike a touring motorcycle? If someone uses their GS1200 for morning group rides only (and many in Europe do!), is it still an ADV motorcycle? Bruce lee famously said, don't look at the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory. In a thread foussed on cc I'm just presenting an alternative view, a view that uses the finger only to point in the right direction.

Trying to determine whether the right motorcycle for touring/adv is 200cc or 1200cc is like trying to determine whether our best autobiography can be written with a Bic ball pen or a Chopard Fountain pen. Our life story is written by our experiences and acts, not by the pen that is put on the paper. It's the same for motorcycle touring. By all means put in the effort and due diligence to buy the right motorcycle for you but the touring experience will not be enhanced with additional cc under the butt - that's just my experience and everyone's mileage could vary.

Cheers,
Sting
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Old 11th December 2018, 16:04   #168
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Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
"If money is no object, would you still stick with RE?"

People who own them know the purpose and limitations of such machines which makes them choose their rides in the first place. Brand, Budget, etc. comes in secondary.
True about that, there's a pivotal ideological difference between;

1. Riding a motorcycle because I can afford one.

and,

2. Riding a motorcycle because I want to.

I have no clue about the first kind because their thought processes seem to be totally different from mine and other than crossing paths on motorcycles I cannot seem to relate with them, they're the kind who'd scrap the motorcycle as soon as their financial position improves, maybe to get a "better" motorcycle or a cager which again makes me question their self-proclaimed passion for motorcycling in the first place.

The second kind is the type who ride for the sense of freedom a motorcycle offers, and freedom is again relative from what I've seen, when someone might feel free working a secure 9~6 Job others might feel restricted and vice-versa, that is just how we are.

Same ideology cascades to our preference for motorcycles, while some might experience freedom on technically superior motorcycles others might find it restrictive and vice-versa, which I believe is what reflects from the various replies that have come up on this thread.


Quote:
We can ask the same question to people who own different motorcycles:

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Bajaj CT100?"

"If money is no object, would you still stick with Pulsar 220?"
Since I own both the above mentioned motorcycles the question of money doesn't play a predominant role when it comes to selection as I have both at my disposal and one is "Small" where as the other is relatively "Big".

But the reason I still stick with the CT100B for interstate/cross-country commuting/touring is because the sense of freedom it offers cannot be matched by the P220.

Now this has more to do with me than what the motorcycle has to offer because a predominant factor of that freedom is the sense of being in control or rather not being in a compromised position which though is the exact same thing some fail to see it due to their misconceptions or limited experience arising from their preferences or mere luck.

This brings to mind something that a motorcycle trainer once said in a video-log, that goes something like this;

"...the older I get the less I give a poop about what everybody else thinks, I'm out there for me not for them, I'm not riding this motorcycle because someone else likes it, but because its the one I want... "

Which is something I can relate to as I've gone down the displacement ladder than contrary to what is considered to be the norm i.e going up.

Sharing an experience, there were two of us at my first employers, we both graduated from the same university during the same year and at the time of joining incidentally owned the same motorcycle i.e the P220, down the line my friend and fellow enthusiast got himself a Suzuki Hayabusa whereas I went for a CT100B and now some time after we're both still happy with our choices as the motorcycles we chose to opt sits square with our respective riding preferences, styles and agendas.

Which I believe is all there is to it.
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Old 11th December 2018, 16:25   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
Because with our severely limited structural and informational infrastructure even the likes of a 375cc motorcycle which universally is a small motorcycle can be a handful on our roads.

That's just me, so do feel free to correct me.
On the other hands, thanks to the lack of speed rule enforcement & decent highway qualities - India is still one of the few countries where you can push the bigger bikes a little bit on the highways. In most of the western countries - you better stick to posted speed limits of 100-130 kmph if you want to keep your driving license. I, for one, have never felt that a big motorcycle is a liability on our highways. Hence the applicability of 300cc Class being beginner even in our Indian conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
About the inflated prices bit, well no one till now(except for Mahindra Jawa) offered motorcycles in 350-500cc category in the price range that RE does.
Yeah well a 350-500cc motorcycle which can be smoked by 200-220cc motorcycle pretty easily in performance. And i havent even talked about the other primitive equipment at that price point - no ABS, drum brakes, lack of fuel gauge, vibrations which gave birth to the Chai challenge etc etc
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Old 11th December 2018, 16:44   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
Mate first of all I don't know how you deduced as to "Why the devotion to RE?" while addressing me.
I was thinking you would say they are beautiful , metal bikes that have a character of their own.

Your questions are now going to have a lot of answers and it is going to be a more interesting thread - thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
About the inflated prices bit, well no one till now(except for Mahindra Jawa) offered motorcycles in 350-500cc category in the price range that RE does.
This is precisely why I asked about the money bit, they sell a lot of RE350 because it is an attainable big sort of bike and it is beautiful, given a choice of a similar bike they would have settled for something else as well which is more suited for touring. There have been many comments on the same forum where people have moved from RE to other motorcycles because they suit their touring needs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
True about that, there's a pivotal ideological difference between;

1. Riding a motorcycle because I can afford one.

and,

2. Riding a motorcycle because I want to.
Affordability can stretch a lot further than motorcycles, and if someone buys a motorcycle having all the money in the world, there is something that attracted that person to it. Touring bikes are purpose built and are not as beautiful as the others, so certainly there is a utility aspect here rather than just show off.

Riding a bike because you cannot afford to travel through any other means and riding a bike because you want to have that adventurous bike trip are indeed different.
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Old 11th December 2018, 17:50   #171
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Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Your questions are now going to have a lot of answers and it is going to be a more interesting thread - thanks.
This thread has really brightened the activity levels of the motorcycles subforum, hasn't it? And it is not showing signs of slowing down soon, either!
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Old 11th December 2018, 18:07   #172
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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
Riding a bike because you cannot afford to travel through any other means and riding a bike because you want to have that adventurous bike trip are indeed different.
But they don't have to be. I can't afford to drive. I don't like to drive. So, I ride.

And I have fun (almost) every single day. This way, I don't have to ride on the weekends just for the heck of it. (I still do it occasionally) Because I'm getting my dose of freedom during the week.
Wouldn't it be nice if
what you wanted to do = what you had to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
This thread has really brightened the activity levels of the motorcycles subforum, hasn't it? And it is not showing signs of slowing down soon, either!
True that! I had given up. But then I started seeing the no. of my kind of people jumping in and I got back. Haha. By 'my kind,' I mean people who'd ride a commuter bike if they didn't have their multi-cylinder bike with them. But they wouldn't give up on riding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting View Post
Adventure motorcycle is not a type of motorcycle, it is a frame of mind.
Mind = Blown

Last edited by MaheshY1 : 11th December 2018 at 18:19.
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Old 11th December 2018, 18:21   #173
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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
they sell a lot of RE350 because it is an attainable big sort of bike and it is beautiful, given a choice of a similar bike they would have settled for something else as well which is more suited for touring.
True. I'd like a better touring option than my Bullet for sure!

When I bought my RE in 2007, I really didn't buy it because it was beautiful but because there was no other touring option at that price point (with apologies to all the people posting about how 'easy' it is to tour on 100cc and sub-100cc bikes- I couldn't put myself through that torture 11 years ago, I sure can't do it now!)

11 years later, I'm fed up of RE - not the bike I own, it's done the job more than well, but the company and their pathetic quality control and service.

BUT I still don't see an alternative at a similar price point (sub-2L). [If I'm missing something, please let me know.]

There's the Mojo. 50-50 on that one. After reading all the positives about the Baby GS, I think it would be a great bike, but I can't afford it. Maybe the Jawa will be better than RE, but I doubt it- since they're going for the same market (buy Bullet because it's beautiful and retro ) they can afford to treat their customers the same way and probably will end up doing so.

Bajaj Dominar- again seems a great touring bike, but after owning a Pulsar too, I'm really not convinced about the longevity of a Bajaj bike.

As I've posted before, a Hero Impulse-type bike with a factory fitted 250-300cc engine would be great for me personally. Let's see what the much more puny XPulse has to offer, if and when it finally comes out!
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Old 11th December 2018, 19:05   #174
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Default Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

The more that TBHPians post on this thread, the more the day 1 constant remains the same - there is no right answer. I wish I could have spent as much time riding my motorcycles this week as I did reading this thread.
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Old 11th December 2018, 19:58   #175
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Quote:
The more that TBHPians post on this thread, the more the day 1 constant remains the same - there is no right answer. I wish I could have spent as much time riding my motorcycles this week as I did reading this thread.
weekend, we are busy riding only and so this thread goes lull. But we do need some "masala" for the boring weekdays and hence this thread.
But yes, As pointed, topics like these are open ended and thats the beauty of it. Am sure all the discussions on the thread will be valuable and worth if a confused soul can get some clarity in pursuit of his ideal touring bike, if there ever is one.
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Old 11th December 2018, 20:18   #176
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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
I, for one, have never felt that a big motorcycle is a liability on our highways. Hence the applicability of 300cc Class being beginner even in our Indian conditions.

Yeah well a 350-500cc motorcycle which can be smoked by 200-220cc motorcycle pretty easily in performance. And i havent even talked about the other primitive equipment at that price point - no ABS, drum brakes, lack of fuel gauge, vibrations which gave birth to the Chai challenge etc etc
That 350-500cc sounds familiar, so does the 200-220 - Spot on.

I agree with you, more power is not a problem as long as the rider knows where to apply it. Powerful engines make travel effortless, silent surge of power when you need, shift down and rev it when you want.

Having reserve power at your disposal is a good feeling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaheshY1 View Post
But they don't have to be. I can't afford to drive. I don't like to drive. So, I ride.
While I stand for bigger bikes for touring, I understand that it is not possible for everyone, but that does not necessarily make smaller and less safer options a better fit for the job.

Yes, any bike is more fun than no bike - we can agree on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by am1m View Post
True. I'd like a better touring option than my Bullet for sure!

When I bought my RE in 2007, I really didn't buy it because it was beautiful but because there was no other touring option at that price point (with apologies to all the people posting about how 'easy' it is to tour on 100cc and sub-100cc bikes- I couldn't put myself through that torture 11 years ago, I sure can't do it now!)

11 years later, I'm fed up of RE - not the bike I own, it's done the job more than well, but the company and their pathetic quality control and service.

BUT I still don't see an alternative at a similar price point (sub-2L). [If I'm missing something, please let me know.]

!
You are right, there are no options even now (~300cc) apart from RE in that price point, Jawa is yet to be out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
This thread has really brightened the activity levels of the motorcycles subforum, hasn't it? And it is not showing signs of slowing down soon, either!
Yes, engaging conversations, Interesting read I must say.

I am happy that it is indeed going to help someone choose the right motorcycle for touring.

It is frugality and availability of the small bike vs the comfort and less rider fatigue of a bigger bike.
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Old 11th December 2018, 21:01   #177
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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
I was thinking you would say they are beautiful , metal bikes that have a character of their own.

Your questions are now going to have a lot of answers and it is going to be a more interesting thread - thanks.
Well them RE motorcycles have been misunderstood by most and have a cliche associated with them w.r.t Macho, manly, soul, character, etc. They're all there but there is also one very important thing called "Connection". I connect with RE motorcycles as simple as that.
Quote:
Yeah well a 350-500cc motorcycle which can be smoked by 200-220cc motorcycle pretty easily in performance. And i havent even talked about the other primitive equipment at that price point - no ABS, drum brakes, lack of fuel gauge, vibrations which gave birth to the Chai challenge etc etc
Mate I just don't understand the fascination of people with Smoking eachother err... motorcycles. Does it stop people from buying Kawasaki Z800 when Triumph Speed Triple 675 can smoke it?
Or Kawasaki Ninja 300 can smoke Dominar 400
Or KTM Duke 390 can smoke Triumph Bonneville 865 in initial acceleration
Or etc, etc, etc.

Mate new RE Motorcycles do come with dual disc, EFI(500 and 650), soon ABS, fuel gauge(T-Bird 500, 650 Twins), ABS (Himalayan, 650 twins), Slipper Clutch (650 twins).

Last edited by navin_v8 : 11th December 2018 at 21:05.
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Old 11th December 2018, 21:37   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
True about that, there's a pivotal ideological difference between;

1. Riding a motorcycle because I can afford one.

and,

2. Riding a motorcycle because I want to.

I have no clue about the first kind because their thought processes seem to be totally different from mine and other than crossing paths on motorcycles I cannot seem to relate with them, they're the kind who'd scrap the motorcycle as soon as their financial position improves, maybe to get a "better" motorcycle or a cager which again makes me question their self-proclaimed passion for motorcycling in the first place.

The second kind is the type who ride for the sense of freedom a motorcycle offers, and freedom is again relative from what I've seen, when someone might feel free working a secure 9~6 Job others might feel restricted and vice-versa, that is just how we are.
So a person who has the means and thus indulges in his desires of upgrading his motorcycles every few years, can't be a motorcycle enthusiast. For most people, the urge to earn more money is fuelled by their urge to fulfill their desires,something they have a passion for. However, according to you, if someone keeps upgrading their bikes because they have worked hard to be able to do so, they are not worthy of being called passionate about motorcycles.

I am going to be honest. My only experience riding a bike is on my father's 1997 Bullet 350. The bike hasn't even done 30k kms yet and I have ridden it after it touched 6k kms in 2006. I don't like that bike, or I might not even like bikes at all, for touring. Max, I've ridden that bike is 300kms non stop. Even riding it for 60-70kms to my nearest town takes a toll on me. However, I just love the feeling of freedom, that you've described, riding a bike gives me. The good part fades after a couple of kms because of the state of our roads/traffic and the way this Bullet was built.
I can do most repairs and regular maintenance on the bike myself.

I might hate riding my bike, but that doesn't mean I am not passionate about motorcycling. You can't define passion within a set of boundaries. For my father, the passion about a motorcycle was, firstly to own one, and then to maintain it in impeccable condition. For me, it is about cruising at 40km/hr on mountain roads for less than 50kms at a stretch. I do that regularly, whenever I am feeling stressed. If I were to cross that 50km mark, it starts getting stressful and takes a toll on my body. Doesn't make me any less passionate than you, for motorcycles or motorcycling.

You say you have no clue about the people of the first kind and yet you feel it is alright to label them as wannabes and not worthy enough to be passionate about motorcycling.
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Old 11th December 2018, 21:50   #179
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You say you have no clue about the people of the first kind and yet you feel it is alright to label them as wannabes and not worthy enough to be passionate about motorcycling.
I think age has a factor to play here as well. It will be interesting to hear people's respective ages and their past ownership of motorcycles to understand where they come from. Else there is no background to a lot of the conversations that are going on... Just endless you vs me opinions without even having met each other.

Once age and motorcycle experience is put together, then we can probably use a bit of logic and common sense to understand where the person is coming from.

An opinion about motorcycles and touring from a young 26 year old who has not had the opportunity of owning more than a bike or two is going to be very very different from someone middle aged, and has done touring on a variety of bikes, to someone who is maybe pushing 50, and probably been there done that. Obviously, motorcycle experience is critical to have a good discussion, else things become too vague.

I have already sensed and felt all these ages encapsulated in this thread just by reading some of the opinions. I would also hazard a strikingly good guess at some of the participant's ages myself...
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Old 11th December 2018, 21:51   #180
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Originally Posted by nasirkaka View Post
Am sure all the discussions on the thread will be valuable and worth if a confused soul can get some clarity in pursuit of his ideal touring bike, if there ever is one.
It already has. The Baby GS seems to be a perfect fit for someone like me and I wouldn't have come to that conclusion without this thread. I haven't really done any touring till now as my Bullet seemed to be a completely wrong tool for it. I moved to Himachal a couple of years back and have been contemplating getting a bike which will be comfortable to do short tours on. Just a month back, we went to a nearby waterfall and I decided to ride my Bullet as the destination was just 30kms away and I had friends in cars with me. Turns out it was a wrong decision as the ride on the unpaved sections was atrocious on the Bullet. It was also a handful to keep it from falling down on sections where paving work was going on as they had laid the rocks for the base of the road and gone home. It made the rear tyre move left-to-right like crazy. In the end, my friends were able to enjoy much more at the waterfall than me as the ride itself had made me tired and stressed.
So, I will be looking to upgrade to a Baby GS and get the right set of tyres to make such excursions more enjoyable.

Last edited by rdst_1 : 11th December 2018 at 22:17.
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